Will some AI Civs even be able to progress Exploration Age Economic Legacy Path?

[Brutus2]

In the exploration age the economic legacy path is entirely dependent on building settlements on the distant continent to generate treasure fleets and bring them back to your home continent. However, it was stated in the exploration livestream that any AI that starts on the distant continent (not the continent where the player starts), won't be able to gain treasure resources because resources on the player's continent can not be flagged as "treasure" for them. They did say this is something they hope to correct but as far as we know it is not possible now.

So roughly half the AI civs in the game could be completely unable to progress one legacy path which would likely also make it very difficult if not impossible for them to achieve the economic victory as well if they make no progress for one entire age. What happens to AI civs that decide to focus on the economic path in antiquity and then can't progress further in exploration age? It seems like a key game mechanic has been designed in a way that just doesn't work for some of the AI in any given game. I know this won't matter for AI on the player home continent but still, assuming we want all the AI to be competitive in trying to win, this seems like a big concern.

I'm hoping that maybe I misunderstood something or missed some clarification from the devs. Also, I understand they said they hope to address this and I'm not asking to speculate about if this could or will be fixed eventually. There are lots of things they "could" do in the future but I'm asking, based on what we know now, will this be an issue at launch?

 

[Nikolai II]

I'd wager they could progress one of the other victory conditions? I see no problem with that happening.

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

The distant lands civs seem to only become full “players” in the Modern Age, hence the player cap on starting an Exploration game being the same as an Antiquity one.

 

[Evolena]

So roughly half the AI civs in the game

It seems to be more like 1/3 (2 AI on Distant Lands for 4 on Home Lands).

And the AI on Distant Lands appear in none of the victory screens for Antiquity and Exploration Ages.

 

[Zennock]

I share your worries too my dude. Out of all the things I'm concerned about (besides the quality of the AI) this takes the cake.

Though on my end, it's still okay if the other Civs on the homeland can progress the victory line while those on the distant lands can't.

My big fear is that AI Civs won't pursue or rather don't have to engage in victory types. They just automatically gain points according to difficulty.

That would be a huge blow and I really hope that won't be the case. I guess we can only confirm this in due time when the game is officially released.

 

[Brutus2]

If the AI on the distant land is just some sort of fake civ and doesn't really play the game or really pursue victory, and they are just granted free progress they don't actually earn, that's even worse. People complain about the AI ability to understand game mechanics and play the game effectively, is the solution to just "fake it" and have AI civs that don't even bother to play the game? Sounds like there is no AI at all. They are basically independent people pretending to be full civs.

 

[Zaarin]

If the AI on the distant land is just some sort of fake civ and doesn't really play the game or really pursue victory, and they are just granted free progress they don't actually earn, that's even worse.

We've been told explicitly that the Distant Land civs are there playing their turns in Distant Lands at the same time the player and their cohorts are playing theirs in Antiquity. The only limitation we know they have is the ability to generate treasure fleets, and Ed said they're working on finding a solution to that.

 

[Trengilly]

Don't forget that you can progress on the Economic Path by Capturing other players treasure fleets. You don't need to build you own. Presumably this will be more difficult but, perhaps not.

 

[Xyael]

It seems to be more like 1/3 (2 AI on Distant Lands for 4 on Home Lands).

And the AI on Distant Lands appear in none of the victory screens for Antiquity and Exploration Ages.

I find it unfortunate. It reduces the competition in the game. And reduces Civilization during the exploration age to a "conquista" scenario.

I think that it somewhat disrupts the philosophy of Civilization to see the civilizations of distant lands as sub-civilizations that you just have to beat up to get age points.

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

It would be easy to fix: for AI/opponents in what you call "distant lands", they consider their capital to be on their mainland, and by extension YOU are his distant lands^^.

That would actually be rather fun to play, since you will then try to invade each other for the treasure ressources. Kind of what would have happened in real life had the south american civilization developped seafaring technologies apt to cross the atlantic ocean.

 

[Xyael]

It would be easy to fix: for AI/opponents in what you call "distant lands", they consider their capital to be on their mainland, and by extension YOU are his distant lands^^.

That would actually be rather fun to play, since you will then try to invade each other for the treasure ressources. Kind of what would have happened in real life had the south american civilization developped seafaring technologies apt to cross the atlantic ocean.

It would make things all the more fun as the civilizations would probably automatically enter into naval conflict.

 

[queenpea]

It would make things all the more fun as the civilizations would probably automatically enter into naval conflict.

I think if it was easy to fix it would have been fixed by now. I agree that this is a pretty big bummer on launch, especially if the civs in your distant lands are economic-focused.

 

[Xyael]

I think if it was easy to fix it would have been fixed by now. I agree that this is a pretty big bummer on launch, especially if the civs in your distant lands are economic-focused.

Bad quote ? Or I look ironic but I'm not ?

 

[SirViss]

I wonder about the Songhai. If they spawn in the Distant Lands will they still generate Treasure Fleets as part of their Kanta abiity?

Kanta
Tier 1: ...Cities in Homelands on Navigable Rivers generate Treasure Fleets worth one Victory Point each.

 

[King Flevance]

The mandatory "New World" map cut-off scripted gameplay is one of my larger concerns with the game. I do hope patches and expansions address this in multiple ways.
It will quickly grow dull if every game's exploration age has the same narrative of "treasure fleet scramble". I feel the economic victory should be tied more to trade routes and have treasure fleets count as a bonus to that legacy path rather than be the whole legacy path.

 

[Krikkit1]

I wonder about the Songhai. If they spawn in the Distant Lands will they still generate Treasure Fleets as part of their Kanta abiity?

Kanta
Tier 1: ...Cities in Homelands on Navigable Rivers generate Treasure Fleets worth one Victory Point each.

Actually looks like they would only get those if they colonized the homelands.


Ideally
1. Each side could colonize the other side for the military although the more crowded side will be harder to colonize

2. There should be a way to make Treasure Fleets in cities on your side if you have a trade route from a civ on the other side. Deliver it to that civ and you both get a victory point and some gold.

 

[Acken]

That seems poorly thought out really. Concerning.

 

[UWHabs]

It's obvious that the initial iteration didn't overly consider them. I'm not entirely sure I like the notion that they simply reverse the continents, and have to send treasure fleets the other way. While at some level that's balanced, it feels like it would be weird to have fleets going opposite directions, not knowing which of each you can conquer to get you points.

I think it might be more interesting if they gave civs on the distant lands their own unique economic path. Maybe don't allow them to develop their own treasure fleets, but allow them to conquer treasure fleets others have created and return them to their homeland. Basically their economic path is "protect their land from being plundered".

Whether they will do this or some other option, we're not sure. It was a few months ago when they first mentioned it, so it's highly possible they figured out some way to handle it and balanced it. Or it's still on the todo list and will come in a post-launch patch. At this point, once the embargo on streamers is lifted, we'll probably know more, but I wouldn't expect to find out more until then.

 

[fantsu]

I think its a wise decision. Original civilizations in the "new world" arent technologically strong enough to win economic victory, so they have to try to win it some other way.

 

[Krikkit1]

I think its a wise decision. Original civilizations in the "new world" arent technologically strong enough to win economic victory, so they have to try to win it some other way.

Except they are... with the Era change all civs have the same technology.

It's obvious that the initial iteration didn't overly consider them. I'm not entirely sure I like the notion that they simply reverse the continents, and have to send treasure fleets the other way. While at some level that's balanced, it feels like it would be weird to have fleets going opposite directions, not knowing which of each you can conquer to get you points.

I think it might be more interesting if they gave civs on the distant lands their own unique economic path. Maybe don't allow them to develop their own treasure fleets, but allow them to conquer treasure fleets others have created and return them to their homeland. Basically their economic path is "protect their land from being plundered".

Whether they will do this or some other option, we're not sure. It was a few months ago when they first mentioned it, so it's highly possible they figured out some way to handle it and balanced it. Or it's still on the todo list and will come in a post-launch patch. At this point, once the embargo on streamers is lifted, we'll probably know more, but I wouldn't expect to find out more until then.

Reversing I think is Fine,
put some large Flag on the Treasure fleets.
Different players will see different colors on the Flag
One Color: get this fleet back to my cities on my homeland (it came from what are distant lands to me)
Other Color.: get this fleet to one of my trade partners on the distant lands (it came from what are homelands to me)
**** you could also have multiple different distant lands, but the color on the flag just tells me if it should go back to me (cause it came from somewhere else) or go to any one of the distant lands that has trade with me (because it came from my homeland area)

(Songhai Nav River Treasure fleets get a Third color Flag since they should probably be delivered to anyone not Songhai that you have a trade route with)

It would be harder for "DL" civs to get the military or economics points, because their DistandLands the "HL" is much more crowded... but technologically they will be equal.