[WIP] 3rd Unique Component Project

[Krajzen]

OK so let me give some suggestions...

First of all, on the steam workshop appeared Etruscan Civ mod which has LUA building which... adds culture and gold per city. And I am already working on reusing this wonderful code* Maybe you wanna a piece of this Lua Cake?

*- and I will struggle with it till making this lua working, at least for my own mods

Underlined parts mean I am not sure if it is possible to make them working or they seem to be difficult for me.

Arabian Madrasah - Doubled maintenance, +2 faith and instant Faith Boost after finishing construction.

Spoiler :

+2 maintenance is for balance purposes, may also have increased building cost (this still makes historical sense because Madrasah is not some ugly school building but GLORIOUS MADRASAH
No idea how big this faith boost should be. On standard speed 150 faith?

Assyrian Karum - Karum - available on Currency. When built on City State territory connects its luxury and strategic resources

Spoiler :

Karum - Assyrian trading outpost in far Anatolia. My idea was instant. Ancient and land version of Feitoria.

This is useful even during peace (remember my suggestion that each civ should have at least one non - warmongering bonus? ) but very helpful during early Assyrian warmongering. Although it seems to be particularly difficult as it requires Improvement 3d Model [eventually something like Kasbah can be used ] AND making AI civs able to use this feature...

Brazilian Sambadrome - replaces opera, 25% slower to build provides instant Golden Age Boost when built, when Sambadrome music slot is filled it provides +4 gold.

Spoiler :

Version a) - instant golden age boost and +4 gold per slot filled. GA boost should be possible to code. Gold per slot filled can be easily created... basing on Paya from Burmese Civilisation Mod
Version b) - easier but more primitive - Sambadrome when built immediately makes empire enter short golden age (4 turns on standard).

Carthaginian Cothon - +5 to defense and +50% to building speed of Cargo Ships in that city

Spoiler :

Current bonus is way too small. I have no idea how to code second part of this UB but it should be possible to do

Greek Agora - replaces Market, no +1 gold and 25% slower to build.
Increases Great People Generation by 25% and provides instant Culture boost when built. Boost increases for Each Greek City on map.

Spoiler :

Easy to create.

American Whatever - replaces Bank or Stock Exchange, provides Instant Gold Boost

American Ranch - something like that http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=165556849


Danish Viking Longhouse - replaces barracks, differences: +2 happiness and city immediately enters We Love the King Day. Viking Feast!!!


Korean Seowon - four science specialists instead of one. O_O Because, you know, it was SCHOOL, and also Korean civ specialises in science and education


Roman Forum - +x gold and culture per each city in the empire Fits both Forum 'state' purpose and 'wide expansion' of Rome


Netherland Waag - what do you mean by talking about 'resource traded in city'?


Mongolian Ger - current version but also bonus towards Production, so Mongolia won't be civilisation without peaceful unique feature


Babylonian - Ziggurat? Sumer Civ has the icon, we can invent new effect for it. For example: replaces temple but comes on Calendar and is faster to build, has scientist slot.


English Playhouse - current abilities.

Spoiler :

I am not sure if each great writer increases GW costs in all cities or only in city with Writer's Guild... If it would break Playhouse, I would recommend changing Playhouse Writer slot into 'increases GW generation in city with Writers Guild/capital'.

French Salon - I would change great writers into great artists and provide great artist specialist slot


Mayan Holkan - maybe it will also provide... Golden Age Points when fighting? Yeah I know that it will be fourth unit with this ability (after Minuteman, Pracinha and Clibanarii) but it still is much more original than Drill I And fits Maya perfectly.


Turkish Bath
- Replaces Garden, doesn't require fresh water but costs 2 maintenance.
- ...I am sceptical about this Incense bonus because unique features which rely on single random luxury resource (out of 20) usually suck and base entirely on luck. Maybe instead: +2 faith and PROVIDE Incense for city?



Shoshone Tipi - It definitely should have +2 food but I am not sure about +2 faith. It would be overpowered and Shoshone aren't famous for their religion I would rather change it into +1 culture or gold. Available since Agriculture (?) and gold/culture bonus increases by 1 at Economics.


Venetian Canals - +2 venetian merchant points instead of +1?


Polish Uhlan - remember about changing its bonus towards MELEE towards GUN


Chinese Junk Ship - ...what are you planning to do with it?

 

[mrc2022]

I guess you could "borrow" the Civ4 Sumerian UU, the Vulture, as a Babylonian UU. A sort of chariot is probably your best bet, though.
I would suggest a Scythed Chariot, but that has almost nothing to do with Babylon that I'm aware of...

Not gonna go with that. From my initial research chariots are more connected to the Assyrians. Babylon used horses a lot, just need to dig deeper on research...

OK so let me give some suggestions...

First of all, on the steam workshop appeared Etruscan Civ mod which has LUA building which... adds culture and gold per city. And I am already working on reusing this wonderful code* Maybe you wanna a piece of this Lua Cake?

*- and I will struggle with it till making this lua working, at least for my own mods

Underlined parts mean I am not sure if it is possible to make them working or they seem to be difficult for me.

Arabian Madrasah - Doubled maintenance, +2 faith and instant Faith Boost after finishing construction.

Spoiler :

+2 maintenance is for balance purposes, may also have increased building cost (this still makes historical sense because Madrasah is not some ugly school building but GLORIOUS MADRASAH
No idea how big this faith boost should be. On standard speed 150 faith?

Assyrian Karum - Karum - available on Currency. When built on City State territory connects its luxury and strategic resources

Spoiler :

Karum - Assyrian trading outpost in far Anatolia. My idea was instant. Ancient and land version of Feitoria.

This is useful even during peace (remember my suggestion that each civ should have at least one non - warmongering bonus? ) but very helpful during early Assyrian warmongering. Although it seems to be particularly difficult as it requires Improvement 3d Model [eventually something like Kasbah can be used ] AND making AI civs able to use this feature...

Brazilian Sambadrome - replaces opera, 25% slower to build provides instant Golden Age Boost when built, when Sambadrome music slot is filled it provides +4 gold.

Spoiler :

Version a) - instant golden age boost and +4 gold per slot filled. GA boost should be possible to code. Gold per slot filled can be easily created... basing on Paya from Burmese Civilisation Mod
Version b) - easier but more primitive - Sambadrome when built immediately makes empire enter short golden age (4 turns on standard).

Carthaginian Cothon - +5 to defense and +50% to building speed of Cargo Ships in that city

Spoiler :

Current bonus is way too small. I have no idea how to code second part of this UB but it should be possible to do

Greek Agora - replaces Market, no +1 gold and 25% slower to build.
Increases Great People Generation by 25% and provides instant Culture boost when built. Boost increases for Each Greek City on map.

Spoiler :

Easy to create.

American Whatever - replaces Bank or Stock Exchange, provides Instant Gold Boost

American Ranch - something like that http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=165556849


Danish Viking Longhouse - replaces barracks, differences: +2 happiness and city immediately enters We Love the King Day. Viking Feast!!!


Korean Seowon - four science specialists instead of one. O_O Because, you know, it was SCHOOL, and also Korean civ specialises in science and education


Roman Forum - +x gold and culture per each city in the empire Fits both Forum 'state' purpose and 'wide expansion' of Rome


Netherland Waag - what do you mean by talking about 'resource traded in city'?


Mongolian Ger - current version but also bonus towards Production, so Mongolia won't be civilisation without peaceful unique feature


Babylonian - Ziggurat? Sumer Civ has the icon, we can invent new effect for it. For example: replaces temple but comes on Calendar and is faster to build, has scientist slot.


English Playhouse - current abilities.

Spoiler :

I am not sure if each great writer increases GW costs in all cities or only in city with Writer's Guild... If it would break Playhouse, I would recommend changing Playhouse Writer slot into 'increases GW generation in city with Writers Guild/capital'.

French Salon - I would change great writers into great artists and provide great artist specialist slot


Mayan Holkan - maybe it will also provide... Golden Age Points when fighting? Yeah I know that it will be fourth unit with this ability (after Minuteman, Pracinha and Clibanarii) but it still is much more original than Drill I And fits Maya perfectly.


Turkish Bath
- Replaces Garden, doesn't require fresh water but costs 2 maintenance.
- ...I am sceptical about this Incense bonus because unique features which rely on single random luxury resource (out of 20) usually suck and base entirely on luck. Maybe instead: +2 faith and PROVIDE Incense for city?



Shoshone Tipi - It definitely should have +2 food but I am not sure about +2 faith. It would be overpowered and Shoshone aren't famous for their religion I would rather change it into +1 culture or gold. Available since Agriculture (?) and gold/culture bonus increases by 1 at Economics.


Venetian Canals - +2 venetian merchant points instead of +1?


Polish Uhlan - remember about changing its bonus towards MELEE towards GUN


Chinese Junk Ship - ...what are you planning to do with it?

Arabian Madrasah - I agree

Assyrian Karum - Won't add luxuries but I'll go with strategical resources. There will also be some bonus to caravans

Brazilian Sambadrome - No longer an Opera replacement

Carthaginian Cothon - That also seems fine. I'll see what can be done regarding the Cargo Ships

Greek Agora - 25% great people generation seems a bit much. Culture boost? Ok ok, but it should only increase per friendly City States

American UB - I think I'll stick with the Saloon, with some changes and a new broader name

Dannish Viking Longhouse - I could add +1 Happiness, but that's it

Korean Seowon - 4 seems a bit much, 3 specialists and culture from specialists

Roman Forum - That would be great if it works with only cities connected to the capital

Netherlands Waag - When you have trade routes the outcome of the trade route depends on the resources both cities have. What I had in mind was to count every different resource involved in the trade routes the city takes part and provide the bonus

Mongolian Ger - +1 production to horse pastures?

Babylonian - Not going after a UB

English Playhouse - I'm also not sure.

French Salon - No, the Salon inspired more writers than artist. If anything the Salon should also provide a science bonus, as it contributed to the scientific revolution

Mayan Holkan - Are you forgetting it provides Faith from kills?

Ottoman Turkish Bath - You see the bonus from this buildings, the ones that replace Garden, is that now they are available to every city and not just cities with fresh water

Shoshone Tipi - I think it's fine actually. There aren't that many flat plains with no resources were you can build these. So there's no large proliferation of them. Still haven't see more than one/two per city

Venetian Canals - Humm, perhaps...

Polish Uhlan - Ah, thanks for the reminder!

Chinese Junk Ship - Still not sure. What I had in mind was a Caravel replacement, available earlier (Compass) but that could only enter deep water with Astronomy and something more, but I'm not sure. The versatility of this ship is making it tougher to design, if it could be a cargo ship and change to caravel whenever you wanted that would be great, but that limits the amount of ship you could build

 

[Wodhann]

Brazilian Sambadrome - No longer an Opera replacement

Are you going for something like I suggested?

 

[AW Arcaeca]

If you're insistent on using a UU for Babylon, your options appear to be very limited. Even more so if you insist on it being a cavalry unit. I can't find any sort of special chariot used specifically by the Babylonians - Scythed chariot, sadly, is the closest I've found. I've even tried looking through the Persian names for different cavalry from 0 AD.

And what I found is:
Mada Asabara (Median Light Cavalry)
Babiruviya Ratha (Babylonian Scythed Chariot)
Varkaniya Asabara (Hyrcanian Cavalry)
Katpaduka Asabara (Cappadocian Cavalry)

Note the Babylonian scythed chariot.

But seriously, I wouldn't do a mounted archer. It seems to similar to the camel archer and Babylon already has a ranged UU. It would certainly be much easier to just go with a Ziggurat.

 

[Krajzen]

Mongolian Ger - +1 production to horse pastures?

Or to all pastures :0 Yeah, something like that.

French Salon - No, the Salon inspired more writers than artist. If anything the Salon should also provide a science bonus, as it contributed to the scientific revolution

Hm... It seems that you wanna create two Great Writer unique buildings: Salon and Playhouse

Hm... Increases Great Writer production in the city with writers guild and provides an Instant Science Boost?

Mayan Holkan - Are you forgetting it provides Faith from kills?

No
Holkan, Version 1 - provides Faith from kills and receives Drill promotion

Holkan, Version 2 - provides Faith from kills and Golden Age Points from kills

Holkan, Version 3 - provides Faith... and Science from kills! (I reminded about one lua line which gives this ability to unit :0)

Ottoman Turkish Bath - You see the bonus from this buildings, the ones that replace Garden, is that now they are available to every city and not just cities with fresh water

Hah, yeah I know. I just think it is not the most spectacular bonus

Maybe:
- provides +x base happiness and +y happiness per each state religion in city - so now we have not only Awesome Turkish Baths but also something which reflects Ottoman tolerance

Shoshone Tipi - I think it's fine actually. There aren't that many flat plains with no resources were you can build these. So there's no large proliferation of them. Still haven't see more than one/two per city

Hm... Flat plains with no resources... Probably you're right. I would still change faith bonus into something different which fits Tipi/Shoshone better (culture/gold) and decrease base yield - unique improvement with +4 yield is a bit too strong, even Kasbah/Polder doesn't provide that much yield (and they have even more extreme terrain requirements!)

Chinese Junk Ship - Still not sure. What I had in mind was a Caravel replacement, available earlier (Compass) but that could only enter deep water with Astronomy and something more, but I'm not sure. The versatility of this ship is making it tougher to design, if it could be a cargo ship and change to caravel whenever you wanted that would be great, but that limits the amount of ship you could build

Is it even possible to create unique replacements for trade units at all? I have never seen something like that and trade units are 'anomaly' compared with other units in game :0
If it IS possible, maybe -50% lower cost and strong bonus towards science gain using Junk trade routes.
I am not sure if Junk Ship should replace Caravel, I mean Chinese are infamous for completely abandoning 'great discoveries' after Zheng He's travel to Africa in early XV century... And they aren't really known for overseas expansion (Chinese colonies in South East Asia were rather result of immigration or 'land colonisation', right?)



I must agree with Agressive Wimp, finding any info on Babylonian military system is surprisingly difficult (to compare, Egyptian military info is much easier to find!) also while I like Babylonian Horse Bowman for this interesting promotion, I am not sure if it fits Babylonian civilisation. I am not even sure if non - chariot cavalry existed at all in the golden era of Babylon (I am not talking about half - Assyrian Neo Babylonian Empire)

Babylonian military choice is extremely limited.
- Vulture spearman replacement (dull)
- Bowman, Firaxis Babylonian unit (...also dull )
- Mounted Assyrian Bowman/Chariot (the best unit option, still not sure)
- Babylonian... swordsman? Assyrian Royal Guard?

...and that's all no navy, lack of awesome warriors like Jaguar, Babylon ends with classical era. If you aren't going to do mounted bowman, I would go with ziggurat - much easier to do, more 'immersive', maybe even more interesting from gameplay point of view. But you mrc decide here

 

[DaNuke]

You could do a bonus for trade routes for the Cothon, or make it a Harbor replacement, that would be cool! But the 50% faster trade ships are cool too!

 

[meowschwitz]

You could do a bonus for trade routes for the Cothon, or make it a Harbor replacement, that would be cool! But the 50% faster trade ships are cool too!

The reason it isn't a harbor replacement is because Carthage gets free harbors, and it wouldn't be very fun to have a UB you never actually build. It ends up feeling like this just buffs their UA rather than give them another unique.

 

[Krajzen]

Wait, Cothon replaces seaport?

So instead:
+1 to production and gold for sea resources (Seaport)
+25% to building naval units in that city (Seaport has +15%), bonus doubled for Cargo Ships
+10 to defense

 

[mrc2022]

Are you going for something like I suggested?

Yes. The new Sambadrome will be based in your suggestion

If you're insistent on using a UU for Babylon, your options appear to be very limited. Even more so if you insist on it being a cavalry unit.(...)

But seriously, I wouldn't do a mounted archer. It seems to similar to the camel archer and Babylon already has a ranged UU. It would certainly be much easier to just go with a Ziggurat.

I must agree with Agressive Wimp, finding any info on Babylonian military system is surprisingly difficult

Yeah you are right. So I give up on that.
There's a reason I've never went for the Ziggurat (Sumer...)

Or to all pastures :0 Yeah, something like that.

+1 to Horses it is

Hm... It seems that you wanna create two Great Writer unique buildings: Salon and Playhouse

Hm... Increases Great Writer production in the city with writers guild and provides an Instant Science Boost?

Not sure

No
Holkan, Version 1 - provides Faith from kills and receives Drill promotion

Holkan, Version 2 - provides Faith from kills and Golden Age Points from kills

Holkan, Version 3 - provides Faith... and Science from kills! (I reminded about one lua line which gives this ability to unit :0)

I think version 1 is simpler, which goes well with the Holkan costing half the regular Spearman

Hah, yeah I know. I just think it is not the most spectacular bonus

Maybe:
- provides +x base happiness and +y happiness per each state religion in city - so now we have not only Awesome Turkish Baths but also something which reflects Ottoman tolerance

Humm nice twist. +1 Happiness from each religion in the city. I believe this will require lua

Hm... Flat plains with no resources... Probably you're right. I would still change faith bonus into something different which fits Tipi/Shoshone better (culture/gold) and decrease base yield - unique improvement with +4 yield is a bit too strong, even Kasbah/Polder doesn't provide that much yield (and they have even more extreme terrain requirements!)

I think faith suits Shoshone well (Shoshone or any other plains indian tribe)

About the yield part. No, I don't think so. I believe you get to build much less Tipis than either Kasbah or Polder and so the extra yield evens things out

Is it even possible to create unique replacements for trade units at all? I have never seen something like that and trade units are 'anomaly' compared with other units in game :0
If it IS possible, maybe -50% lower cost and strong bonus towards science gain using Junk trade routes.
I am not sure if Junk Ship should replace Caravel, I mean Chinese are infamous for completely abandoning 'great discoveries' after Zheng He's travel to Africa in early XV century... And they aren't really known for overseas expansion (Chinese colonies in South East Asia were rather result of immigration or 'land colonisation', right?)

Yes it's possible. My first version of the Junk Ship replaced the Cargo Ship, and it had no reduced visibility and 3 moves. The problem is that you don't build trade units to explore since they are limited.
I couldn't give trade routes created by Junk Ships any bonuses, but if this is possible then we could go through here

The reason it isn't a harbor replacement is because Carthage gets free harbors, and it wouldn't be very fun to have a UB you never actually build. It ends up feeling like this just buffs their UA rather than give them another unique.

Exactly

Wait, Cothon replaces seaport?

So instead:
+1 to production and gold for sea resources (Seaport)
+25% to building naval units in that city (Seaport has +15%), bonus doubled for Cargo Ships
+10 to defense

It already gives the Seaport bonuses.
I can go with the production bonus, but then the maintenance will be increased.
+10 to defense is to much, I'll change from +2 to +5

PS:
Wodhann, any chance I can put some more art requests (beside the ones pending in your thread) ?
Krajzen, how are you with converting units from civ4?

 

[Krajzen]

Yeah you are right. So I give up on that.
There's a reason I've never went for the Ziggurat (Sumer...)

So you prefer Mounted Bowman or Ziggurat?

[Cothon] +10 to defense is to much, I'll change from +2 to +5

This building comes in the renaissance era when each city has something like 40 - 50 defense. +2 bonus is nothing +5 is minimum. Personally I think that +10 wouldn't be overpowered

Krajzen, how are you with converting units from civ4?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13140640&postcount=173

 

[mrc2022]

So you prefer Mounted Bowman or Ziggurat?

I'll go with the Ziggurat

This building comes in the renaissance era when each city has something like 40 - 50 defense. +2 bonus is nothing +5 is minimum. Personally I think that +10 wouldn't be overpowered

The Castle just adds +7 so I won't make the Cothon adding more than that, besides +5 is a balanced value

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13140640&postcount=173

 

[Skaz881]

But.............Sumer has a Ziggurut.

 

[mrc2022]

But.............Sumer has a Ziggurut.

Whose Sumer are you using?
Alternative would be Ishtar Gate as a UNW

 

[Skaz881]

Tometekh's.

 

[mrc2022]

Ok. Mine will be slightly different.
But I'll also work on the alternative.

 

[Krajzen]

Lol I thought you mrc are aware of Sumer having Ziggurat and this is why you don't like it for 3rd component

Ishtar Gate as an UNW... Makes sense. Maybe requires Walls of Babylon in all cities, may be built only in Babylon and upon finishing provides X bonus to food and tourism? [this monument of glory makes ancient people arrive to Babylon in awe] I wouldn't give it yet another bonus to science because Babylon already has very strong early science (...and nothing more )

 

[mrc2022]

Ishtar Gate as an UNW... Makes sense. Maybe requires Walls of Babylon in all cities, may be built only in Babylon and upon finishing provides X bonus to food and tourism? [this monument of glory makes ancient people arrive to Babylon in awe]

Bulls eye

 

[Krajzen]

Also it seems that creating Ishtar Gate icon for Civ5 can be relatively easy - I mean look at this colours! http://goo.gl/YJIvgE This is not Agora when ruined piece of rocks and grass has to be shown as Unique Glorious Building

Come on, which of these Ishtar images would you like?

 

[meowschwitz]

The Saloon is not dismissed. I'm just looking for an alternative to it.
And it didn't had those stats you wrote, which actually seem great. Perhaps I'll work through that

Oh I knew those weren't the original stats; I was just lobbying to get it back. America being a lower tier civ with more late game uniques needs something to give it an early game buff even if you need to fudge the accuracy a bit.

 

[regalman]

there is also a ziggurat icon from the scenario, looks similar to tomatekhs, except it comes out of the icon ring and has no starburst, but a moon