Zebra 9
Emperor
I have also created a MOD COMP that allows this (should make an update for it).
[WIP] The Hand Of History
- Thread starter Zebra 9
- Start date
Zebra 9
Emperor
I'm back, I will have an update for the ideas people/testers tomorrow.
Shqype
Shqyptar
Cool 
How was your vacation?
How was your vacation?
Ambreville
Deity
This sounds really exciting! Lots of good ideas.
Zebra 9
Emperor
I had a great, but tiring, vacation. 
chef pablo
Warlord
a thought on navies and airpower..
from early on naval power was built to build and maintain naval trade.
some simple ideas could be done to help develop the naval trade.
1. an improvement of building a commercial port ,this port will function in the same way as any road as it will allow trade and is nescesary to give acess to sea going trade. there could also be a worker improvement that would do the same to acess remote resources on small islands.I'm sure this would require creation of a new tag of allows trade ,but for the most part could be handled in XML.ive thought that it might be nice if this was an improvement that only allowed acess to a limited amount of rescources ,there by needing to compile the improvement ;comercial port1 allows 5 rescources ,comercial port2 allows an additional 5 etc.. but that would require alot more in coding.
2 creation of a seagoing worker unit, this unit created in the earliest of techs probally Seafaring and limited by the same technology as other seagoing vessels .The purpouse of this unit is to build trade routes this could be represented graphicly by roads ,built between ports .these routes would require protection hence the need for a strong navy.I dont know of the coding on this ,but i would suspect alot of coding from worker units could be borrowed on this.
these 2 in combination would lead to naval stratagies such as blockades and piracy.
on airpower I would realy like to see some type of industry bombing but this would require creating improvements that would be targets for such runs.Aircraft factories , tank factories ,armaments ,etc. these improvements could require certain rescources in the same way to build that alot of wonders require and produce generic rescources such as aircraft, tank and smallarms these would be required to build units .This action would play a greater importance on inserdiction roles of fighters.
2 another addition I would like to see is ground support, rather than taking away streangth of a unit or weaken a unit of opposing forces ide rather see a one time promotion of your forces of +50% streangth and blitz.I think this could probally done borrowing some of the Lopez code for his fort mod. this is really the essence of air supiority and would create the need for forward airstrips for interdiction missions.
from early on naval power was built to build and maintain naval trade.
some simple ideas could be done to help develop the naval trade.
1. an improvement of building a commercial port ,this port will function in the same way as any road as it will allow trade and is nescesary to give acess to sea going trade. there could also be a worker improvement that would do the same to acess remote resources on small islands.I'm sure this would require creation of a new tag of allows trade ,but for the most part could be handled in XML.ive thought that it might be nice if this was an improvement that only allowed acess to a limited amount of rescources ,there by needing to compile the improvement ;comercial port1 allows 5 rescources ,comercial port2 allows an additional 5 etc.. but that would require alot more in coding.
2 creation of a seagoing worker unit, this unit created in the earliest of techs probally Seafaring and limited by the same technology as other seagoing vessels .The purpouse of this unit is to build trade routes this could be represented graphicly by roads ,built between ports .these routes would require protection hence the need for a strong navy.I dont know of the coding on this ,but i would suspect alot of coding from worker units could be borrowed on this.
these 2 in combination would lead to naval stratagies such as blockades and piracy.
on airpower I would realy like to see some type of industry bombing but this would require creating improvements that would be targets for such runs.Aircraft factories , tank factories ,armaments ,etc. these improvements could require certain rescources in the same way to build that alot of wonders require and produce generic rescources such as aircraft, tank and smallarms these would be required to build units .This action would play a greater importance on inserdiction roles of fighters.
2 another addition I would like to see is ground support, rather than taking away streangth of a unit or weaken a unit of opposing forces ide rather see a one time promotion of your forces of +50% streangth and blitz.I think this could probally done borrowing some of the Lopez code for his fort mod. this is really the essence of air supiority and would create the need for forward airstrips for interdiction missions.
Some nice ideas, but the happy fact is that many of them are already in BtS (or something similar is). There are blockades (without visible trade routes - it seems that different ships blockade a certain number of squares around them). There is also a scenario (WWII) that has the ability to bomb military or civilian target buildings in cities. There may well be other useful features in scenarios that we can simply "cut-and-paste" the coding from into our mod.
Zebra 9
Emperor
Alot of great ideas there. Like Vrenir said alot of them will be in BtS. I'm definatly awaiting BtS. 
chef pablo
Warlord
another way to make sea trade important is to make trade overland expensive
something as simple as 1 gold for every tile the resource has to travel to get to its destination.Then create a city improvement that is required for sea trade.
To even further this make refined resources ( cotton-textiles)cheaper to transport than raw resources...
this would give you industrial based cities along with port cities.
something as simple as 1 gold for every tile the resource has to travel to get to its destination.Then create a city improvement that is required for sea trade.
To even further this make refined resources ( cotton-textiles)cheaper to transport than raw resources...
this would give you industrial based cities along with port cities.
Zebra 9
Emperor
But I think that could get a bit annoying. I'm try to send Alexander some corn so his attitude toward me gets better so that Monty (who is in between me and Alex) doesn't DOW me, but it costs me money to do this is, well 
. Well now that I have created that example I think it might be interesting, I'll have to think about it.
Good idea though.
Looks like we will be having a BtS release soon (that is after BtS comes out).
. Well now that I have created that example I think it might be interesting, I'll have to think about it. Good idea though.Looks like we will be having a BtS release soon (that is after BtS comes out).
chef pablo
Warlord
If you think about it ,it makes since.Columbus wouldnt have made his journey if he wasnt trying to find a cheaper and faster way to trade spices and silk.
In the mediteranian there wasnt such a thing as the olive road or wine road because it was cheaper and faster to stick it on a boat and ship it to another port.
It would be nice to get the tech tree reworked a little,having some of the millitary techs go down dead end tech lines allowing stronger units of that spacific type,I'll give an example.
horse resource: once you get domestication horses become available ,getting horse resource opens up a new tech of horsemanship this allows you to build horse archer and cataphrac these are the same as in the game now .there are additional units that this tech allows but they require a different resource that you can only get by continuing up the horse tech line that after horsemanship is a dead end line .The next tech in this line would be horse breeding and would do 2 things ..
first it would allow you to grow horses .I think this could be done if somehow you could code horses and pastures to combine when you add the improvement and then use the coding from the "tag" allows irrigation to grow horses on plains only(if you could figure out how to do this it would be very nice then you could allow only one resource of each type of grain to appear on the game and let civs spread it through out the world).
2 to give you acess to 3 other techs ,these techs would be spacific breeds of horses one tech would give you arabian horse, this tech would allow an improvement of arabian stable ,this improvement would require horse resource to build and create the resource of arabian horse .This resource when used to build units would have a promotion of sentry and flank ,additionaly this resource could be used to build arabian calvery that would have shock along with the other 2 promotions this would be available in horsemanship.
another tech/breed could be klisedale,done in the same fashion with shock one and 2 in the resource with heavy horse the speacial unit for this resource this would have shock 3 .
appaloosa would be the final tech /breed ,this would be light cav style,utilizing the promotion of flanke.
There are other millitary techs that could be done like this archery,rifleman ,etc..
In the mediteranian there wasnt such a thing as the olive road or wine road because it was cheaper and faster to stick it on a boat and ship it to another port.
It would be nice to get the tech tree reworked a little,having some of the millitary techs go down dead end tech lines allowing stronger units of that spacific type,I'll give an example.
horse resource: once you get domestication horses become available ,getting horse resource opens up a new tech of horsemanship this allows you to build horse archer and cataphrac these are the same as in the game now .there are additional units that this tech allows but they require a different resource that you can only get by continuing up the horse tech line that after horsemanship is a dead end line .The next tech in this line would be horse breeding and would do 2 things ..
first it would allow you to grow horses .I think this could be done if somehow you could code horses and pastures to combine when you add the improvement and then use the coding from the "tag" allows irrigation to grow horses on plains only(if you could figure out how to do this it would be very nice then you could allow only one resource of each type of grain to appear on the game and let civs spread it through out the world).
2 to give you acess to 3 other techs ,these techs would be spacific breeds of horses one tech would give you arabian horse, this tech would allow an improvement of arabian stable ,this improvement would require horse resource to build and create the resource of arabian horse .This resource when used to build units would have a promotion of sentry and flank ,additionaly this resource could be used to build arabian calvery that would have shock along with the other 2 promotions this would be available in horsemanship.
another tech/breed could be klisedale,done in the same fashion with shock one and 2 in the resource with heavy horse the speacial unit for this resource this would have shock 3 .
appaloosa would be the final tech /breed ,this would be light cav style,utilizing the promotion of flanke.
There are other millitary techs that could be done like this archery,rifleman ,etc..
Gaius Octavius
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Messages
- 4,016
We will start working on quantified resources once BtS comes out and Dom finishes his other mods he's currently working on. 
As a follow up on your idea, instead of having specific breeds to work with (which would entail more resources), you could simulate this using a promotion. You can set a specific building, like the Arabian stable in your example, to give a unique promotion, e.g. Arabian Horse, which might give combat bonuses and/or +X % against a unit type.
As a follow up on your idea, instead of having specific breeds to work with (which would entail more resources), you could simulate this using a promotion. You can set a specific building, like the Arabian stable in your example, to give a unique promotion, e.g. Arabian Horse, which might give combat bonuses and/or +X % against a unit type.
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
I think there's some merit to making land trade more expensive. But, to me, this isn't represented by some kind of maintenance cost. This is represented by the actual revenue from trade. In other words, the trade route formula needs to be rebalanced:
- Distance needs to yield more profit
- Trade between larger cities needs to yield more profit
- Roads need to reduce profit, or sea movement needs to improve profit (representing speed and efficiency)
- This needs to adjust with new transportation technologies
The result should be that roads and rivers are key for trade until the classical era, where sea becomes dominant. Here, medium distance trades should the most viable: Trade routes from Rome to China should be rare (if basically non-existent, save a Great Merchant pulling a big mission), but trade with Persia might be quite profitable. By the renaissance era, ocean trade should be viable, but only across a single water mass. Only with the advent of combustion should the ideal trade take place halfway around the globe.
- Distance needs to yield more profit
- Trade between larger cities needs to yield more profit
- Roads need to reduce profit, or sea movement needs to improve profit (representing speed and efficiency)
- This needs to adjust with new transportation technologies
The result should be that roads and rivers are key for trade until the classical era, where sea becomes dominant. Here, medium distance trades should the most viable: Trade routes from Rome to China should be rare (if basically non-existent, save a Great Merchant pulling a big mission), but trade with Persia might be quite profitable. By the renaissance era, ocean trade should be viable, but only across a single water mass. Only with the advent of combustion should the ideal trade take place halfway around the globe.
Shqype
Shqyptar
Yea, BtS will expand the capabilities of this mod.
chef pablo
Warlord
We will start working on quantified resources once BtS comes out and Dom finishes his other mods he's currently working on.
As a follow up on your idea, instead of having specific breeds to work with (which would entail more resources), you could simulate this using a promotion. You can set a specific building, like the Arabian stable in your example, to give a unique promotion, e.g. Arabian Horse, which might give combat bonuses and/or +X % against a unit type.
I guess what i was getting at is the ability to have and trade a technicly supeior weapon without giving up the tech..this actually leads me to another idea what about tech wonders? they would act just like wonders in that once someone reaches it no one eles can reserch it.
on the idea of ports that allow sea trade chinese -american has it in his trade mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=163657
excpet that his is an improvement to terain.
Gaius Octavius
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Messages
- 4,016
The port idea is essentially in BtS under the fort heading, but we'd have to mod in the trade routes.
chef pablo
Warlord
I think the main reason of trading by sea rather than mule train is that you could store more wine on a carrack than outfitting a huge mule train ..so maybee the answer is to limit the amount of resources that can be traded on roads.
chef pablo
Warlord
actually thinking about it this makes since,take it one step more finished product would take up less space in a cargo hold than a raw resource.Take rum for example, sugar cane takes a lot of space in its raw form but process it and rum ,ethanol ,sugar, molasis these all take a huge amount of product to produce just a little.So taking this into effect you could say roads allow for 2 resouces to be traded and sea trade is unlimited.Then if finished product takes less space say 4-1 ratio ,this would create industry cities that are linked to port towns .
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