Wonder Elimination Thread

[civnoob13]

Okay, so now that the DLC UU elimination thread is done and the normal UU one nearly done, I think it would be a good time to start a new one. Sorry to the mods if it is one too many. Anyway, from the request of one of the mods, please give a reason for your decisions. As usual, take off two to the wonder you want to eliminate but only add one to the one you vote for. Thanks to ciV wiki for the list. Please make it obvious what you voted for by selecting them as bold or making the one you voted for green and against red. Only one vote per day, and no splitting of votes.

I repeat: PLEASE GIVE A REASON FOR YOU DECISIONS

Moderator Action: The bolded rules will be enforced- Camikaze

Angkor Wat (20)
Big Ben (20)
Brandenburg Gate (20)
Chichen Itza (20)
Cristo Redentor (20)
Eiffel Tower (20)
Himeji Castle (20)
Machu Picchu (20)
Notre Dame (20)
Pentagon (20)
Sistine Chapel (20)
Statue of Liberty (20)
Stonehenge (20)
Sydney Opera House (20)
Taj Mahal (20)
Colossus (20)
Forbidden Palace (20)
Great Library (20)
Great Lighthouse (20)
Great Wall (20)
Hagia Sophia (20)
Hanging Gardens (20)
Kremlin (20)
Louvre (20)
Oracle (20)
Porcelain Tower (20)
Pyramids (20)
United Nations (20)

And the Rankings:

Spoiler :

27th:Colossus
25th:Brandenburg Gate
24th:Great Wall
23rd:Great Lighthouse
22nd:Kremlin
21st:Hanging Gardens
20th:Notre Dame
19th:Maccu Picchu
18th:Eiffel Tower
17th:The Louvre
16th:Taj Mahal
15th:Angkor Wat
14th: The great Library
13th: The Oracle
12th:
11th:
10th:
9th:
8th:
7th:
6th:
5th:
4th:
3rd:
2nd:
1st:

unfortunately, the (awesome) new patch made this thread obsolete. I will make a new one in about 2 weeks!

So, the votes for what was left, in order

12th Porcelain Tower 9
11th Hagia Sophia 22
Joint 10th Pentagon 24 Sistine Chapel 24
Joint 8th Big Ben 26 Pyramids 26
6th Forbidden Palace 27
5th Cristo Redentor 28
4th Chichen Itza 29
3rd Himeji Castle 30
2nd Statue of Liberty 31 (+1)
1st Stonehenge 43

 

[civnoob13]

Angkor Wat (20)
Big Ben (18)
Brandenburg Gate (20)
Chichen Itza (20)
Cristo Redentor (20)
Eiffel Tower (20)
Himeji Castle (20)
Machu Picchu (20)
Notre Dame (20)
Pentagon (20)
Sistine Chapel (20)
Statue of Liberty (20)
Stonehenge (21)
Sydney Opera House (20)
Taj Mahal (20)
Colossus (20)
Forbidden Palace (20)
Great Library (20)
Great Lighthouse (20)
Great Wall (20)
Hagia Sophia (20)
Hanging Gardens (20)
Kremlin (20)
Louvre (20)
Oracle (20)
Porcelain Tower (20)
Pyramids (20)
United Nations (20)

Big ben is too late in the game to matter and is not that good anyway. Stonehenge is really useful for early culture and is great for grabbing those first few social policies earlier than others.

 

[GenjiKhan]

Angkor Wat (20)
Big Ben (18)
Brandenburg Gate (20)
Chichen Itza (20)
Cristo Redentor (21)
Eiffel Tower (20)
Himeji Castle (20)
Machu Picchu (20)
Notre Dame (20)
Pentagon (20)
Sistine Chapel (20)
Statue of Liberty (20)
Stonehenge (21)
Sydney Opera House (20)
Taj Mahal (20)
Colossus (20)
Forbidden Palace (20)
Great Library (20)
Great Lighthouse (20)
Great Wall (20)
Hagia Sophia (20)
Hanging Gardens (18)
Kremlin (20)
Louvre (20)
Oracle (20)
Porcelain Tower (20)
Pyramids (20)
United Nations (20)

My Reasons: Cristo Redentor is too important for cultural victory in this game now(I think they should add at least 1 wonder in industrial era that provides a effect similar to this wonder). Hanging Gardens bonus of +1 pop and +3 happiness isn't great thing(and it can become happiness problems even worse)

 

[sukritact]

Angkor Wat (20)
Big Ben (18)
Brandenburg Gate (20)
Chichen Itza (20)
Cristo Redentor (21)
Eiffel Tower (20)
Himeji Castle (20)
Machu Picchu (20)
Notre Dame (20)
Pentagon (20)
Sistine Chapel (20)
Statue of Liberty (20)
Stonehenge (21)
Sydney Opera House (18)
Taj Mahal (20)
Colossus (20)
Forbidden Palace (20)
Great Library (20)
Great Lighthouse (20)
Great Wall (20)
Hagia Sophia (20)
Hanging Gardens (18)
Kremlin (20)
Louvre (20)
Oracle (20)
Porcelain Tower (20)
Pyramids (21)
United Nations (20)

I find the Pyramids very useful. I spend much less gold and production on workers.
The Sydney Opera House comes too late in game to matter much. It's not worth the production anyway.

 

[aatami]

Angkor Wat (20)
Big Ben (20)
Brandenburg Gate (20)
Chichen Itza (20)
Cristo Redentor (18)
Eiffel Tower (20)
Himeji Castle (20)
Machu Picchu (20)
Notre Dame (20)
Pentagon (20)
Sistine Chapel (20)
Statue of Liberty (20)
Stonehenge (20)
Sydney Opera House (18)
Taj Mahal (20)
Colossus (20)
Forbidden Palace (20)
Great Library (20)
Great Lighthouse (20)
Great Wall (20)
Hagia Sophia (20)
Hanging Gardens (16)
Kremlin (20)
Louvre (20)
Oracle (20)
Porcelain Tower (20)
Pyramids (22)
United Nations (20)

 

[Save_Ferris]

Angkor Wat (20)
Big Ben (21)
Brandenburg Gate (20)
Chichen Itza (20)
Cristo Redentor (18)
Eiffel Tower (20)
Himeji Castle (20)
Machu Picchu (20)
Notre Dame (20)
Pentagon (20)
Sistine Chapel (20)
Statue of Liberty (20)
Stonehenge (22)
Sydney Opera House (18)
Taj Mahal (20)
Colossus (20)
Forbidden Palace (20)
Great Library (20)
Great Lighthouse (20)
Great Wall (20)
Hagia Sophia (20)
Hanging Gardens (16)
Kremlin (18)
Louvre (20)
Oracle (20)
Porcelain Tower (20)
Pyramids (22)
United Nations (20)

EDIT: Fixed.

 

[civnoob13]

Big ben should be at 18 and stonehenge at 22

 

[TopGearFanatic]

Angkor Wat 20
Big Ben 21
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 21
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 20
Machu Picchu 20
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 20
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 20
Stonehenge 22
Sydney Opera House 18
Taj Mahal 20
Colossus 20
Forbidden Palace 20
Great Library 20
Great Lighthouse 20
Great Wall 20
Hagia Sophia 20
Hanging Gardens 16
Kremlin 18
Louvre 20
Oracle 20
Porcelain Tower 18
Pyramids 22
United Nations 20

Extended Gonden Ages are always nice, Porcelain Tower has no permanent effect.

 

[mrlovanhey]

Angkor Wat 20
Big Ben 18
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 21
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 20
Machu Picchu 20
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 20
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 20
Stonehenge 22
Sydney Opera House 18
Taj Mahal 20
Colossus 18
Forbidden Palace 20
Great Library 20
Great Lighthouse 20
Great Wall 20
Hagia Sophia 20
Hanging Gardens 16
Kremlin 18
Louvre 20
Oracle 20
Porcelain Tower 18
Pyramids 23
United Nations 20

For a long time, I was a nut for starting off with Stonehenge, but as I progressed in difficulty level and I had to make tough choices in wonders, The Pyramids just wound up being a better long term choice. The Colossus on the other hand has always been a useless piece of cr*p that I've never had the desire to build

 

[civnoob13]

Why is big ben at 21? It should be at 18

Thanks for fixing. I think we're where we should be now!

 

[mrlovanhey]

Fixed now

 

[Bezurn]

Angkor Wat 20
Big Ben 18
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 21
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 21
Machu Picchu 20
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 20
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 20
Stonehenge 22
Sydney Opera House 18
Taj Mahal 20
Colossus 18
Forbidden Palace 20
Great Library 20
Great Lighthouse 20
Great Wall 20
Hagia Sophia 20
Hanging Gardens 16
Kremlin 18
Louvre 20
Oracle 20
Porcelain Tower 18
Pyramids 23
United Nations 20

 

[GoodSarmatian]

That's a real hard decision and most times it depends on the current game.
Big Ben is always a very good wonder, but it really rises to the top when combined with Mercantilism which I choose when the overall situation -gold or silver near the capital and/or lots of luxury resources in general- makes Commerce desirable.
I also used to love the Great Library for CS slingshots, but they can also be accomplished with RA and blocking.
The Taj Mahal is usually OK. It get's good with Persia or Chitchen Itza and very good with Persia and Chitchen Itza.
Sidney Opera House and Christo Redentor have very good effects but come very late. They are extremely helpful when you go for a cultural victory but pretty underwhelming otherwise.

The wonders I usually try to get are The Oracle, Big Ben and Chitchen Itza, but it's again situational. The Oracle is the most flexible wonder but doesn't provide anything really unique, Chitchen Itza is practically useless if you don't have much excess happiness, but if you play your cards right the boost it provides to your industry and economy in the long run is invaluable and it makes sacrificing Great People (especially excess generals) a viable strategy.
Big Ben is as I said best when combined with Mercantilism, but it's always useful if you need an army quickly or want to buy buildings -especially late game buildings like Factories or Public Schools -so that your cities can build wonders. It's also very useful when you have the Heroic Epic to maximize that particular citiy's unit output.


Now my verdict:
The Colossus can be good if you have a lot of sea resources near your capital, but it's so situational that it's the weakest wonder in most games. The Hanging Gardens are also very low priority, but in most situations they're probably less useless
(the UN is so specific to a diplo win that it shouldn't even be in the poll).


The strongest wonder is harder to decide, and it's almost a tie between Chitchen Itza and Big Ben, but the cheesy standard answer is "it depends".
It all depends on what victory you're going for, whether your terrain offers you lots of happines (Chitchen itza), lot's of gold [particularly in the capital ( Big Ben)], lot's of food (specialists -> Hagia Sofia), what policies you already have (Free Speech + Christo Redentor or Mercantilism + Big Ben FTW)
It also depends what wonders you already have. Chitchen Itza greatly improves Brandenburg Gate and the Louvre.
Since I'm required to pick one I pick Big Ben. I's useful for every victory condition andquite underappreciated in this thread.
I honestly have to say it's always a tie. If as of me writing this Big Ben had more votes than Chitchen Itza I'd probably vote for Chitchen Itza instead.


Angkor Wat 20
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 21
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 21
Machu Picchu 20
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 20
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 20
Stonehenge 22
Sydney Opera House 18
Taj Mahal 20
Colossus 16
Forbidden Palace 20
Great Library 20
Great Lighthouse 20
Great Wall 20
Hagia Sophia 20
Hanging Gardens 16
Kremlin 18
Louvre 20
Oracle 20
Porcelain Tower 18
Pyramids 23

 

[civnoob13]

(the UN is so specific to a diplo win that it shouldn't even be in the poll).

Good point. As of now the UN is not in the poll. Would you mind taking it out? Can you take it off too drubell?

 

[drubell]

Angkor Wat 20
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 18
Chichen Itza 21
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 21
Machu Picchu 20
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 20
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 20
Stonehenge 23
Sydney Opera House 18
Taj Mahal 20
Colossus 14
Forbidden Palace 20
Great Library 20
Great Lighthouse 20
Great Wall 20
Hagia Sophia 20
Hanging Gardens 16
Kremlin 18
Louvre 20
Oracle 20
Porcelain Tower 18
Pyramids 23

The Colossus has always felt like the weakest wonder to me. The only time I've ever built it was when I had a start with 2 fish and a whale, and it felt like a great choice to build with 3 marine tiles. I don't think I would even build it with 2. Only 1 gold yield is also a subset of a tech later. If this was increased to 2 gold, it would be a decent, but not great, wonder.

Stonehenge is always great to have, and it's versatile for any win condition. It's a must-have for culture of course, but definitely very decent for Science or UN. The early engineer point helps you to build more wonders later suited to your win condition. Just a fantastic wonder.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Stonehenge is indeed a fantastic wonder, but the problem is that it's too early before someone else builds it.
I think an early Settler or National College is usually a better investment.

 

[civnoob13]

I think an early Settler or National College is usually a better investment.

That's why I always get the SP that gives you a free settler ASAP (is it collective rule?)

 

[Randall Turner]

Angkor Wat 20
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 16
Chichen Itza 21
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 21
Machu Picchu 20
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 20
Stonehenge 23
Sydney Opera House 18
Taj Mahal 20
Colossus 14
Forbidden Palace 20
Great Library 20
Great Lighthouse 20
Great Wall 20
Hagia Sophia 20
Hanging Gardens 16
Kremlin 18
Louvre 20
Oracle 20
Porcelain Tower 18
Pyramids 23

The two military buildings.

One saves you 20K if you've got a big army and navy.

The other, welp, I've already got at least a half-dozen unnamed great generals by then. (Though it's useful for the Constitution policy "+100% culture" bonus, just because it's a Wonder.)

 

[GoodSarmatian]

That's why I always get the SP that gives you a free settler ASAP (is it collective rule?)

Fair enough.
I usually go for Tradition because I like to keep all options open and Tradition has overall the better policies if you go for a cultural victory and want to max it out. You can later compensate for the missed Stonehenge culture with city states or cultural wonders/buildings (buy Museums with Big Ben to quickly get the Hermitage )
Or you can conquer the city that has Stonehenge .
I sometimes go for Collective Rule if there are some very good spots for expansion though. As I said, it's all about circumstance and terrain.

 

[doctorfork]

Angkor Wat 20
Big Ben 19
Brandenburg Gate 15
Chichen Itza 21
Cristo Redentor 18
Eiffel Tower 20
Himeji Castle 21
Machu Picchu 20
Notre Dame 20
Pentagon 21
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 20
Stonehenge 23
Sydney Opera House 18
Taj Mahal 20
Colossus 14
Forbidden Palace 20
Great Library 20
Great Lighthouse 20
Great Wall 20
Hagia Sophia 20
Hanging Gardens 16
Kremlin 18
Louvre 20
Oracle 20
Porcelain Tower 18
Pyramids 24


Since so many of these are conditional based on types of wins, I rate them by

1. How long are they effective for?
2. How big of an impact are they for a type of win they're generally geared for(if any)?
3. How much can they assist with other winning conditions?

So, Stonehenge and the Pyramids to me are generally the best all-around, since they have very tangible benefits that last nearly the whole game and they help in just about any win condition. Chichen Itza is also huge, but if you have happiness problems it's not going to help you in the way that either of the above would. Not to mention they all generate GE points, which helps build other wonders.

The stuff that isn't that useful are one-time things. Either generating a GP or a free something. The best of that category has to be the Taj Mahal, since you can at least use the golden age for other things. The worst of the lot has to be Brandenburg Gate. It's fairly late in the game(the last for all the GP generating wonders), and if you're going for a military win, chances are you've already racked up quite a few GGs by this point in the game.