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Wonder Elimination Thread

Alhambra 20
Big Ben 24
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 3
Cristo Redentor 11
Eiffel Tower 25
Forbidden Palace 10 (-2)
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 12
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25 (+1)
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 27
Porcelain Tower 22
Pyramids 26
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 22
Stonehenge 23
Sydney Opera House 17
Taj Mahal 14

Forbidden Palace: Rarely do I get the chance to build this wonder because the AI's love this wonder, its like opium to them.

Leaning Tower of Pisa: THis wonder is great in terms of where it is positioned. Pick a few more techs and then you get a number of wonders, all of which are excellent to have.
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 24
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 3
Cristo Redentor 11
Eiffel Tower 25
Forbidden Palace 10
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 12
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 27
Porcelain Tower 22
Pyramids 26
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23(+1)
Stonehenge 21(-2)
Sydney Opera House 17
Taj Mahal 14

Statue of Liberty - Great for tall empires
Stonehenge - Too difficult to get and too many other things to build instead
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 24
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 3
Cristo Redentor 11
Eiffel Tower 25
Forbidden Palace 10
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 12
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 26
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 21
Sydney Opera House 17
Taj Mahal 14

The Porcelain Tower is great if you going for a Tall, specialist focused empire Meanwhile. Petra I find is too situational; not really worth building if you aren't around desert tiles.
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 22
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 3
Cristo Redentor 11
Eiffel Tower 25
Forbidden Palace 10
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 12
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 26
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 21
Sydney Opera House 17
Taj Mahal 14

See post #204.
 
I just used it extensively in my last game - Interfaith Dialogue + Holy Orders + 20+ pop holy cities. Most I got from one pop was 230 beakers, but almost all were above 100. With the lower cost and my high faith output, another missionary was en route while the first one was using its three conversions. My science trailed off after I stopped doing that (focused on saving faith for Great Scientists, which I think was a mistake).

I once played an interfaith-dialog game: my conclusion: it is way better to spread your religion after renaissance, because cities are bigger-> more beakers and the AI doesn't mind the spread.
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 22
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 3
Cristo Redentor 11
Eiffel Tower 26 (+1)
Forbidden Palace 8 (-2)
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 12
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 26
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 21
Sydney Opera House 17
Taj Mahal 14
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 22
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 3
Cristo Redentor 11
Eiffel Tower 26
Forbidden Palace 8
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 12
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 26 [+1]
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 26
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 21
Sydney Opera House 15 [-2]
Taj Mahal 14

Useful in nearly every game, one of my favorite wonders.
Comes very late, only really useful if going for a culture win I guess.
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 22
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 3
Cristo Redentor 11
Eiffel Tower 26
Forbidden Palace 8
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 12
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 19 (-2)
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 27 (+1)
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 21
Sydney Opera House 17
Taj Mahal 14

I realized I almost never have the chance to build HS. No point founding a religion with it if I have poor faith in the first place. No point popping a second great prophet with it if I have enough points to get it by faith. Only very rarely am I put in a spot where I want a second great prophet but I realized religion just isn't that important in the game. Unless I'm isolated and have some faith but not too much or too little, would I want it. But Theology is usually not my priority, Civil Society is. And by the time I get theology, some religious civ *ahem (Pacal) would've build it already.

Pyramids is just great. Low priority, 2 workers. One early GE point. All other GE wonders have relatively higher priorities. I think they should make the workers "free" though. No maintenance cost. That would be a sight.
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 22
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 3
Cristo Redentor 11
Eiffel Tower 26
Forbidden Palace 9
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 12
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 19
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 27
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 21
Sydney Opera House 17
Taj Mahal 12

FP is great even on tiny and small maps. it provides more happiness then ND normally if you have an empire and are not playing OCC.
Taj Mahal well, a GA is not that overwhelming.
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 22
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 3
Cristo Redentor 11
Eiffel Tower 26
Forbidden Palace 9
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 12
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 19
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 27
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 21
Sydney Opera House 17
Taj Mahal 12

FP is great even on tiny and small maps. it provides more happiness then ND normally if you have an empire and are not playing OCC.
Taj Mahal well, a GA is not that overwhelming +4 happiness is nice, but religion and CS provide so much more happiness, that Taj Mahla is not that important.
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 24
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 3
Cristo Redentor 11
Eiffel Tower 25
Forbidden Palace 10
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 12
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 21
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 27
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 26
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 21
Sydney Opera House 17
Taj Mahal 14

The Porcelain Tower is great if you going for a Tall, specialist focused empire Meanwhile. Petra I find is too situational; not really worth building if you aren't around desert tiles.

Equally, Porcelain Tower isn't really worth building if you're on a duel map or otherwise have no prospect of making friends who can fund RAs by the time it comes around. Most Wonders are situational, and simply for balance the better ones should generally be moreso.

I once played an interfaith-dialog game: my conclusion: it is way better to spread your religion after renaissance, because cities are bigger-> more beakers and the AI doesn't mind the spread.

As far as I can tell, the AI only minds you spreading religion if yours becomes dominant in their cities. Nebuchadnezzar never minded even when Islam was no longer the dominant religion in his city, since Tengriism wasn't either (sadly it never became dominant again - too much pressure from Christianity on top of all my Tengri followers - given the size of that city). Which you don't want with interfaith dialogue because you only get the bonus while a foreign religion is dominant (which, when you're missionary-spamming, does mean you have to carefully milk your targets). I'm also playing on Immortal at the moment, where the AI routinely has capitals with pop greater than 10 before they get a religion in the first place. I hadn't used it in combination with Holy Orders before, though - that cost decrease really does make the difference (along with my having built Stonehenge, Djenne, Mayan Pyramids in every city, and taken Mosques as a belief).

My next votes:

Alhambra 20
Big Ben 22
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 3
Cristo Redentor 9
Eiffel Tower 26
Forbidden Palace 9
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 12
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 19
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 28
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 27
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 21
Sydney Opera House 17
Taj Mahal 12

We're mostly out of Wonders I dislike for gameplay reasons (except Hagia Sophia), so I'll revert to Cristo Redentor again for my negative vote, because this statue shouldn't be a Wonder and too many things that should be are now ranked lower.

Upvote for the Hubble Space Telescope because it's a truly inspired idea to include it as a Wonder (and I like the image when you build it), and although it's yet to turn a science game around that I wasn't going to win anyway (or lose anyway), it's always obtainable because the AI invariably defaults to building spaceship parts instead of the telescope, and the production boost is hefty.
 
My first votes:

Alhambra 20
Big Ben 22
Brandenburg Gate 21 (+1)
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 1 (-2)
Cristo Redentor 9
Eiffel Tower 26
Forbidden Palace 9
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 12
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 19
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 28
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 27
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 21
Sydney Opera House 17
Taj Mahal 12

Reasons: Colossus down because most games, there is not enough water tiles close to any city to make it worthwhile. Brandenberg Gate, anything that soups up my military, I'm all for.
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 22
Brandenburg Gate 21
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 1
Cristo Redentor 9
Eiffel Tower 26
Forbidden Palace 9
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 10
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 19
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 28
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 27
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 21
Sydney Opera House 18
Taj Mahal 12

I like the Great Lighthouse, but its very fluky to get and one of the wonders that you cant beeline to get. Best method of getting it is probably to just beeline navigation and capture the city that has it.

SOH is for more than culture victorys. Other than Hubble, its probably the most useful late game wonder. Ive used it to pop rationalism finisher before. Social policies help any VC.


edited to reflect post above mine
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 22
Brandenburg Gate 21
Chichen Itza 26
Colossus 0
Cristo Redentor 9
Eiffel Tower 26
Forbidden Palace 10
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 10
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 19
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 28
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 27
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 21
Sydney Opera House 18
Taj Mahal 12

Colossus - it is to situational are you on a coast, will one of your cities be on a coast, will that coast city be able to build it in a reasonable time, will that city be focused on gold, so on.

Forbidden Palace - I tend to have happiness problems in alot of my wide/domination civ games and this helps.
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 22
Brandenburg Gate 21
Chichen Itza 26
Cristo Redentor 9
Eiffel Tower 26
Forbidden Palace 10
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 8 (-2)
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 19
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 28
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 22
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 27
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 22 (+1)
Sydney Opera House 18
Taj Mahal 12

I don't believe in expensive elements that exist to give bonuses to only to sea tiles. Sea tiles are much weaker, imo, than land tiles. (If I get the right attributes for GL.)

I seem to be focusing less on wonders but getting Stonehenge can get a great start and in some games, about the only I build.
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 22
Brandenburg Gate 21
Chichen Itza 26
Cristo Redentor 9
Eiffel Tower 26
Forbidden Palace 10
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 8
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 19
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 25
Hubble 28
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 23 (+1)
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 27
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 22
Sydney Opera House 18
Taj Mahal 10 (-2)

Maccu Picchu maybe aint the gratest wonder, but now that ICS is possible again in G&K it is pretty nice to have if you have Messenger of Gods Pantheon and have to connect many small cities with road.

Taj Mahal giving only Golden Age is something i usually dont find worth building.
 
I like the Great Lighthouse, but its very fluky to get and one of the wonders that you cant beeline to get. Best method of getting it is probably to just beeline navigation and capture the city that has it.

This should probably be borne in mind given that so many people are voting on things based on how easy/hard they are to get. If it's a good Wonder, you can always capture it from the builder - so this should really only count against Wonders that have a one-off effect that doesn't work when you capture them (such as Hagia Sophia, Oracle or Great Library), those that are most important when you can choose where to place them (I'll build Petra whenever possible, but the AI doesn't tend to make good use of it so I won't usually capture a city for it - unless I have a landship, of course), or those whose effect is most important early in the game before you go conquering (such as Stonehenge).

Great Lighthouse doesn't fall into any of these categories; it can be very good early in the game for the few civs that build several naval units that early. But its new lease of life in the late game, when it can give you the edge over rival navies and sight to use your ranged ships effectively, can be more important.

I don't believe in expensive elements that exist to give bonuses to only to sea tiles. Sea tiles are much weaker, imo, than land tiles. (If I get the right attributes for GL.)

Great Lighthouse doesn't give tile benefits. It does provide a free lighthouse as part of its effect (+1 food in all sea tiles), but this is no different from any other lighthouse and coastal cities always want a lighthouse, since it allows them to farm gold while supporting 1 pop per tile, and it provides a good food surplus with any sea resource except oil (since fishing boats give +1 food as well). The GL's benefits are +1 movement and +1 sight for naval units (if only it also worked for embarked units, Harald mutters...)

Taj Mahal giving only Golden Age is something i usually dont find worth building.

I don't know if it's just me, but this seems to be a Wonder city-states love, so it can be useful to build for influence gains. But then that's true of Terracotta Army too.
 
Alhambra 20
Big Ben 22
Brandenburg Gate 21
Chichen Itza 26
Cristo Redentor 9
Eiffel Tower 26
Forbidden Palace 8 (-2)
Great Library 22
Great Lighthouse 8
Great Mosque of Djenne 14
Hagia Sophia 19
Himeji Castle 21
Hanging Gardens 26 (+1)
Hubble 28
Leaning Tower of Pisa 25
Louvre 25
Machu Picchu 23 (+1)
Neuschwanstein Castle 20
Notre Dame 25
Oracle 30
Petra 25
Porcelain Tower 23
Pyramids 27
Sistine Chapel 19
Statue of Liberty 23
Stonehenge 22
Sydney Opera House 18
Taj Mahal 10 (-2)

Forbidden Palace: I pretty much never build this, 10% happiness just doesnt seem worth it

Hangings Gardens: Even after the G&K modifications, i still always have to get this in my capitol so I can focus on production instead of feeding my people
 
PhilBowles, thanks for the clarification, I had not remembered the specifics. I think I would have voted agaiinst Colossus for my reason if it had not been eliminated.
 
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