Wonder Elimination Thread

Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 29
Leaning Tower of Pisa 29
Machu Picchu 21
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 16
Petra 22
Porcelain Tower 15

Neuschwanstein Castle bonuses work well for wide empires, fitting with my style of play.

I almost never build Porcelain Tower since I rarely, if ever, sign RA.
 
How did MP get back the 3 points I removed in the past 5 minutes after my vote, especially since NC correctly added another 1 point on top of the 1 point I added?
 
Machu Picchu - I'd still rather capture this one than build it. Primarily because the AI will usually get started on it before I can and at that stage of the game, if I don't have a mountain in the first ring I'd likely have to buy the mountain tile to be able to build it.
Neuschwanstein Castle - Since this one unlocks with railroad, whatever city I can build it in has likely picked up the required mountain tile without having to buy it. If it's not the capital building it I will already have my workers lined up to complete the railroad connection to speed this wonder's build as well as already having the workshop and factory in that city. So I can typically finish it in a few turns.

Is the question whether we like a wonder or whether we like to build a wonder? Aren't wonders that you want to capture also "good" wonders?
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 29 + 1 = 30
Leaning Tower of Pisa 29
Machu Picchu 21 - 3 = 18
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 16
Petra 22
Porcelain Tower 15

I play mostly small maps, so disproportional benefit to having a large capital city, and the MP bonus is less effective. All good wonders mind.
 
Well, dont take me wrong, and yes i am not native english speaker, Nausch is great wonder overall...... but , in this, top winner list, for me it was one that deserve to be dropped, for reasons i provided above... The problem that Nausch comes late for its bonus, and require intensive work to make it working...... Compared to Terracota its awesome wonder, compared to Pisa and (its my oppition) Hubble its meh
I never rushed for it, even when i were abel to, and i always were able to build lately other same era wonder which is better than Nausch

And yes, all is situational
I play SP and MP, but in my last 20+ random starts i never had capital which is good for Petra
20+ random starts...... and you say that Petra is not trivialising desert start, and is awesome wonder?

Anyways, my next votes will ensure that in this funny not so realistic game Nausch and Petra will go down :D (evil laughing)
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 30
Leaning Tower of Pisa 26 (-3)
Machu Picchu 18
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 16
Petra 23 (+1)
Porcelain Tower 15

I'm playing a Netherlands game where Petra singlehandedly was enough to turn the ho-hum desert town of Rotterdam into a production powerhouse churning out enough Crossbowmen to swamp Alex, and soon, Ramkhamheng. It doesn't give you all the production/food you need, but it sure gets the ball rolling, especially with desert sheep hills.

Pisa and PT are overrated because they were monsters in Vanilla. Now, they definitely deserve their place, but because they can't quickly get you the same benefits like they used to, they aren't as powerful as they used to be.

Even though I just voted for Petra, we are getting close to the time where we need to consider how situational these wonders are: yes, NC, Petra, and Macchu Picchu are amazing, but they don't help if you don't have a mountain tile available (or a decent amount of desert in Petra's case). They are amazing in that they can turn their respective terrains around, but at some point terrain dependence has to count against them.
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 30
Leaning Tower of Pisa 30 (+1)
Machu Picchu 18
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 16
Petra 19 (-3)
Porcelain Tower 15

Leaning tower of Pisa: With such a wide variety of choices it is almost always very useful

Petra: if you have a city that can get this, then its amazing but if there is no desert in the immediate area, its completely useless
 
Remmeber , 20+ random starts, and no single Petra-good spot

I think some posters been lucky recently, or got so strong impressions from rare occasion when they had it....... All i can is to congratulate, but i can not agree :P

Mmm... Pisa.... only NOT situational wonder in the game, why it could be bad, or worse than 10% broken/90% unacessible petra?
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 30
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Machu Picchu 18
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 16
Petra 20
Porcelain Tower 15

post 687 votes werent counted
 
Chichen Itza 27
Hanging Gardens 30
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Machu Picchu 18
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 16
Petra 20
Porcelain Tower 15


"5" was cropped

nvm seems kuukeri corrected it before my post , while i was making it
 
maybe its the civ choices for me lately, but ive had desert starts more than 50% of the time and that's not with Arabia, Egypt, or other desert-like civ as far as i know. I did get them with Ethiopia though and that was expected as they are more desert like.
 
maybe its the civ choices for me lately, but ive had desert starts more than 50% of the time and that's not with Arabia, Egypt, or other desert-like civ as far as i know. I did get them with Ethiopia though and that was expected as they are more desert like.

I rolled lately (this include GMR games, random MP skirmish or NQ game, or single games)

Plain Danmark
Tundra Danmark
Plain/grass Netherlands
Plains Sweden
Plains Egypt
Shore/grass/hill Carthage
Plain Japan
Tundra/forest Japan
Forest Iroquois
Grasslan Iroquois
Plain Inca
Jungle/hills Monty
Jungle Nabby
Grassland Liz
Plain Songhai

those were last
its true
none of them been even close to good for petra
 
Remmeber , 20+ random starts, and no single Petra-good spot

I think some posters been lucky recently, or got so strong impressions from rare occasion when they had it....... All i can is to congratulate, but i can not agree :P

Mmm... Pisa.... only NOT situational wonder in the game, why it could be bad, or worse than 10% broken/90% unacessible petra?

You can build it in your second or third city too. Rotterdam had 5 total desert tiles (the sheep hills made it totally worth it). Just because your capital isn't on desert doesn't mean you don't build Petra. I think its actually more useful outside your capital (because the game makes sure your capital can already do relatively decently on its own).

Petra is for taking that chunk of desert in your territory, boldly plunking down a city in the middle of it, and making it bloom. (It is also well-situated in the tech tree for Liberty's GE).

Starts where your captial is surrounded by desert and not flood plains: pretty rare.
Starts where you've got a large patch of desert with some decent bonus tiles in the path of your growth: pretty much every game unless you set up a wet climate map. Every game of G+K I've started with standard map, no climate adjustments, I've had a city I've either built Petra in or really wanted to and was beaten to it by the AI.
 
Machu Picchu - I'd still rather capture this one than build it. Primarily because the AI will usually get started on it before I can and at that stage of the game, if I don't have a mountain in the first ring I'd likely have to buy the mountain tile to be able to build it.

I still missed the part where "best Wonder" = "Wonder you most want to build". If anything it's a point in Macchu Picchu's favour that unlike, say, the Oracle, or oftentimes Petra, you can capture it and get its full bonus. If it's a Wonder you want enough to actively attempt to capture it - potentially a greater investment than just building the thing - it seems perverse to cite that as a reason for downvoting it.

Chichen Itza 24
Hanging Gardens 30
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Machu Picchu 18
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 16
Petra 21
Porcelain Tower 15

A lot's changed since I was here last, it seems. I see two here I don't feel deserve to make the top tier - ND and CI. So Chichen Itza gets my downvote (experience has taught me that downvoting the Castle is a wasted vote...). Seems odd that so many people downvote Wonders purely because the AI typically gets them first, yet Chichen Itza hasn't suffered that hate.

Up with Petra once again, since it seems to be getting more downvotes either than Macchu Picchu or Hanging Gardens (the latter being the Wonder I consider deserves to win overall), although the Oracle looks in serious need of help - it's not the lowest-ranked yet, but it's going down faster than the other surviving Wonders.

While all good Wonders are situational, Petra is less so than is being emphasised here - most sites where you want to build it are good production cities, and it can quite reliably be built in a second city if you have a suitable area. Good desert terrain is in any case common in my experience. While you won't want it if you have only one or two desert tiles, you don't need or necessarily want an all-desert city to make it valuable, and with workable city radii being so broad, there's a very good chance of finding a site with some good desert resources/hills to exploit using it. Moreover building it anywhere gives a valuable Engineer point and a 'free' Terracotta Army once you get Archaeology. If you settle specifically for Petra and beeline Currency, you can reliably get it on Immortal before the AI, which seems not to prioritise it particularly even with desert starts. And as for its tech position (raised in an earlier post), Currency is a good go-to early tech for markets and the progression to Guilds for trading posts, even if for some reason the Civil Service path doesn't appeal.

And as ever the most important reason for voting for Petra is: because it's Petra.

EDIT: Amended to reflect votes cast while writing this.

I play SP and MP, but in my last 20+ random starts i never had capital which is good for Petra
20+ random starts...... and you say that Petra is not trivialising desert start, and is awesome wonder?

I doubt I've played 20 games since G&K hit, and I build Petra over half the time, I'd estimate, regardless of civ choice (that includes Denmark, incidentally, when I built it in my second city - which was ultimately probably the best production city I've ever had in a Civ V game). Usually in my capital, but often in my second city.

maybe its the civ choices for me lately, but ive had desert starts more than 50% of the time and that's not with Arabia, Egypt, or other desert-like civ as far as i know. I did get them with Ethiopia though and that was expected as they are more desert like.

I've got it with, at the very least, Siam, Songhai (that one reasonable), Denmark, Sweden and the Maya. And most of those have starting bias enabled.
 
Can someone remind me why the hell notre dame is still in this list?

Colosseums/Circus maximus are much better than this.
 
haha, wow that's different. i had a few where the cap had no desert but had 3 other cities with desert as an option. a few times my 2nd city was petra's home.

edit: didnt think i needed to quote slvynn (whos name ive been mispelling forever) in the 60 seconds it took me to post it and 3 posts come in, haha.
 
I also almost always find an appropriate site for Petra. That doesn't mean I always build it (the AI often beats me to it). The Liberty GE seems to be a perfect fit for Petra if you find a nice second or third city with deserts.

The same applies to Machu Picchu. You might not be able to build it in your cap, but you should be able to build it elsewhere (the Libert GE is also good for this one).
 
If ya'll don't like my votes or my reasons fine, don't count any of them. In fact just get rid of this entire BS voting method and just make a normal poll where everyone can only vote once wonder.

Frankly this entire thread as well as the religious version have been nothing but the same few folks arguing and trying to eliminate each other's preferred wonders. In fact most of the down votes seem to be nothing more than, "I don't like you or your argument for x wonder, so I'm just going to vote it down no matter how good it really is".

I made it much easier for ya'll to fix the vote by withdrawing all my votes.
 
Chichen Itza 24
Hanging Gardens 30
Leaning Tower of Pisa 27
Machu Picchu 18
Neuschwanstein Castle 11
Notre Dame 26
Oracle 16
Petra 22
Porcelain Tower 12

Love the Petra Desert Hills.
PT is not as powerful in G&K as it was in Vanilla.
 
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