Wonder Ideas for C2C

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Personally, I don't like the Appian Way as is, or as has been suggested by Koshling or Vokarya. I would prefer that it built a "straight Imperial Road" to the all the cities (and forts) nearest to your capital. Then from each of those the the cities and forts nearest them until you have a proper military movement network. I would also have it as a national wonder and have some way of having the roads built to new cities and forts. This is a similar idea to Koskling's route change suggestions. If it is going to be buildable then plots need a property that indicate that they are on the "straight" line between cities/forts and the construction of route types need that property.

 

[Vokarya]

Personally, I don't like the Appian Way as is, or as has been suggested by Koshling or Vokarya. I would prefer that it built a "straight Imperial Road" to the all the cities (and forts) nearest to your capital. Then from each of those the the cities and forts nearest them until you have a proper military movement network. I would also have it as a national wonder and have some way of having the roads built to new cities and forts. This is a similar idea to Koskling's route change suggestions. If it is going to be buildable then plots need a property that indicate that they are on the "straight" line between cities/forts and the construction of route types need that property.

I think that might be beyond my ability to code, unfortunately. I like the idea of the Way building roads for you for free, though.

What about this as an effect?

• When built, it upgrades all Mud Paths and Roads within your cultural boundaries to Paved Roads. Squares without roads (or just Paths) are unaffected.
• After building, it provides +50% trade income for the building city.

 

[Koshling]

I think that might be beyond my ability to code, unfortunately. I like the idea of the Way building roads for you for free, though.

What about this as an effect?

• When built, it upgrades all Mud Paths and Roads within your cultural boundaries to Paved Roads. Squares without roads (or just Paths) are unaffected.
• After building, it provides +50% trade income for the building city.

That sounds good to me.

 

[Vokarya]

That sounds good to me.

That was actually less difficult than I thought it would be. I was able to adapt the original "Via Appia" code for my version. I'll post some screenshots later - I just updated my working copy, and I'll need to re-modify the config files for it to work.

 

[Vokarya]

Well, I haven't been wanting to mod lately because I've been actually playing a game -- a Giant map, Snail speed, Boudica of Sumer game with the intent of building the nastiest military-production city I can get. That game is temporarily on hiatus (ran into a repeatable CTD bug in the Transhuman era) so I've been inspired to finish up the Via Appia. I decided I liked the Via Appia name better than the Appian Way.

This is not yet on the SVN. I will push it as soon as I know we are not in a freeze, but I'll post it here so that I can get some commentary.

View attachment 319838
View attachment 319839

When you build the Via Appia, it upgrades all Mud Roads and Roads on tiles you own on the same continent to Paved Roads. The roads don't have to be culturally connected, but neutral squares won't be upgraded.

View attachment 319840
View attachment 319842

The Via Appia also has a bigger brother -- The Golden Spike. This upgrades all Roads and Paved Roads on the same continent to Railroads, and then gives you bonuses to Pioneers and Workers after that. (By this point, you have Steam Power, so you have to have Pioneers instead of Settlers).

View attachment 319843
View attachment 319844
View attachment 319845

What do you think of these two?

 

[Hydromancerx]

These are AWESOME!!

I was going to put in an Asphalt Road building at some point. Perhaps a Route 66 wonder could be built for the modern era?

Maybe even some sort of Monorail/Maglev wonder too. Not sure what it should be called.

In addition I was thinking of adding in Subway Stations and other types of transportation such as Street Cars/Trollies, Cable Cars and Gondolas.

Feel free to post ides for related wonders.

 

[CiverDan]

I like the Maglev wonder idea, as right now Skyroads is a tech to avoid as long as possible as it obsoletes some important production buildings/wonders, including Grand Central Station, Automobile Factory, etc.

 

[Koshling]

Well, I haven't been wanting to mod lately because I've been actually playing a game -- a Giant map, Snail speed, Boudica of Sumer game with the intent of building the nastiest military-production city I can get. That game is temporarily on hiatus (ran into a repeatable CTD bug in the Transhuman era) so I've been inspired to finish up the Via Appia. I decided I liked the Via Appia name better than the Appian Way.

This is not yet on the SVN. I will push it as soon as I know we are not in a freeze, but I'll post it here so that I can get some commentary.

View attachment 319838
View attachment 319839

When you build the Via Appia, it upgrades all Mud Roads and Roads on tiles you own on the same continent to Paved Roads. The roads don't have to be culturally connected, but neutral squares won't be upgraded.

View attachment 319840
View attachment 319842

The Via Appia also has a bigger brother -- The Golden Spike. This upgrades all Roads and Paved Roads on the same continent to Railroads, and then gives you bonuses to Pioneers and Workers after that. (By this point, you have Steam Power, so you have to have Pioneers instead of Settlers).

View attachment 319843
View attachment 319844
View attachment 319845

What do you think of these two?

I like it, but the golden spike (especially) needs to be fairly expensive (that's a LOT of worker time saved). Assuming the cost plays out as reasonably balanced I think these are great.

 

[Sgtslick]

Can you make it more expensive hammer wise, +50% from stone and 500 hammers required means you can build it in 2-3 turns. Stupidly fast if you ask me. 1000 hammers and double production from gold @ railway, that is 2 turns aswell, probably more like 1.. dude look how powerful it is, it should be more like 4000, and +50% from gold. Wonders universally need to be more expensive. It should be more of an investment, at the moment one civ can just build them all (most anyway) if they have the tech lead. While it never really has any draw back. You get a nice amount of gold if you don't get it and it will only cost you a few turns. Maybe all the bonus from stone/marble should be reduced to like 15% and increase wonder costs by about 20-30% across the board.

 

[Vokarya]

I like it, but the golden spike (especially) needs to be fairly expensive (that's a LOT of worker time saved). Assuming the cost plays out as reasonably balanced I think these are great.

I have the cost at 1000 hammers, but I should probably increase it to 1500 hammers. Some of the other Wonders right around it (not counting my own) are:

• Arc de Triomphe - 850 hammers
• Tsukiji Fish Market - 900 hammers
• Broadway - 1040 hammers
• Kremlin - 1040 hammers
• Cristo Redentor - 1300 hammers
• Einstein's Lab - 1300 hammers
• Eiffel Tower - 1625 hammers

Do you think increasing the cost to 1500 would be enough?

 

[Vokarya]

Can you make it more expensive hammer wise, +50% from stone and 500 hammers required means you can build it in 2-3 turns. Stupidly fast if you ask me. 1000 hammers and double production from gold @ railway, that is 2 turns aswell, probably more like 1.. dude look how powerful it is, it should be more like 4000, and +50% from gold. Wonders universally need to be more expensive. It should be more of an investment, at the moment one civ can just build them all (most anyway) if they have the tech lead. While it never really has any draw back. You get a nice amount of gold if you don't get it and it will only cost you a few turns. Maybe all the bonus from stone/marble should be reduced to like 15% and increase wonder costs by about 20-30% across the board.

I'll increase Via Appia to 600. Even some of the Medieval wonders aren't that high (Apostolic Palace is 440, Hagia Sophia is 550). Stone is a REQUIREMENT and does not speed the production at all. I originally had it as a double speed, but since Paved Roads improvement and building require Stone, I think the Via should require it too.

I'll also change Golden Spike to 1500. Maybe we need a benchmarking project for Wonders?

 

[Koshling]

I'll increase Via Appia to 600. Even some of the Medieval wonders aren't that high (Apostolic Palace is 440, Hagia Sophia is 550). Stone is a REQUIREMENT and does not speed the production at all. I originally had it as a double speed, but since Paved Roads improvement and building require Stone, I think the Via should require it too.

I'll also change Golden Spike to 1500. Maybe we need a benchmarking project for Wonders?

That seems ok. Don't forget that these are standard game speed numbers and will sacle up considerably on slower speeds anyway.

 

[Sgtslick]

The problem is most of the wonders are already too cheap. If you make powerful wonders and have them with comparative hammer costs it means whoever gets to that tech first will get the wonder 100% of the time coz its so cheap. Things like this totally screw up balance because going for tech strategy will become more powerful and certain civs will be at a disadvantage, in particular industrious civs will never get a chance to use there bonus because all the wonders are already built.

Do you think increasing the cost to 1500 would be enough?

Don't forget you can easily double your production to build this, u can trade for gold resource pretty easily. Reduce the 'double' with gold to 50% i think.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I'll increase Via Appia to 600. Even some of the Medieval wonders aren't that high (Apostolic Palace is 440, Hagia Sophia is 550). Stone is a REQUIREMENT and does not speed the production at all. I originally had it as a double speed, but since Paved Roads improvement and building require Stone, I think the Via should require it too.

I'll also change Golden Spike to 1500. Maybe we need a benchmarking project for Wonders?

That seems ok. Don't forget that these are standard game speed numbers and will sacle up considerably on slower speeds anyway.

Even on snail some wonders are cheaper to build than normal buildings. I feel that all wonders should cost at least ten times the cost of a building of the same era.

 

[AIAndy]

Even on snail some wonders are cheaper to build than normal buildings. I feel that all wonders should cost at least ten times the cost of a building of the same era.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Sounds like we should assess the cost of wonders.

 

[Vokarya]

Sounds like we should assess the cost of wonders.

I agree. Do you want a chart of current buildings by cost? I can probably make one, but it will take a little while. I would also like to point out a few things:

Should the cost of National Wonders be increased as well?

Should the units that can rush production be recalibrated? I think Great Engineers might need some increasing, but not the Caravans.

I also think that if we're going to increase the cost of Wonders, we should do all of them simultaneously. I'm willing to take this on if no one else really wants it. I would also really, REALLY like to fix the Wonder-conquering problem where certain Wonders are not conquerable at all because of mistakes in the XML.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I agree. Do you want a chart of current buildings by cost? I can probably make one, but it will take a little while. I would also like to point out a few things:

Should the cost of National Wonders be increased as well?

Should the units that can rush production be recalibrated? I think Great Engineers might need some increasing, but not the Caravans.

I also think that if we're going to increase the cost of Wonders, we should do all of them simultaneously. I'm willing to take this on if no one else really wants it. I would also really, REALLY like to fix the Wonder-conquering problem where certain Wonders are not conquerable at all because of mistakes in the XML.

iirc Engineers "force build" some buildings which means that they are built even if normally the "value" of the engineer would not normally be enough to build them.

 

[Vokarya]

iirc Engineers "force build" some buildings which means that they are built even if normally the "value" of the engineer would not normally be enough to build them.

No, Engineers have a limit to how much they can produce. I generally spend 3-4 Great Engineers to finish the Fusion Power Plants. It's based on the size of the city that they are rushing in.

One Great Engineer can build Pont du Gard, and one Great Artist can build Heroic Epic or National Epic regardless of size, but those are specially allowed.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I agree. Do you want a chart of current buildings by cost?

Well wonders at least.