Maybe Syndey Opera House, as it's a pretty famous icon (although I don't think it's 'wonder' material), but not the Syndney Harbour Bridge. The world has hundreds of cool bridges. I think the point of wonders in the game would be that most people in the world know them, regardless of what country they're from. That's why it's irrelevant if everyone in Australia knows the Sydney Harbour Bridge.AvianAvenger said:
Wonders biased towards the U.S.?
- Thread starter caitlinm
- Start date
BearMan
One More Turn...
migthegreek said:
Compared to "west point" (which i never heared of before civ4) and "mt rushmore" and "broadway", it is for sure wonder material.
migthegreek said:
Totally agree, this is also why one can say that the modern wonders are biased towards the US. (-> They have picked alot of less well known stuff from the US and left out things like "big ben" etc...see my previous post).
Older than Dirt
King
Think about all the "American Wonders" they left out: Disneyland, McDonalds, TV dinners, Jazz, Iced Tea, Baseball, Chevrolet, the Death Ray, and Apple Pie.
GIO888
King
EXACTLY older than dirt!
I think we got off pretty lightly!
I think we got off pretty lightly!
gunkulator
Emperor
BearMan said:
Yeah, but name another modern day military academy. West Point is arguably the most famous. I'll give you Mt Rushmore as being kinda lame, but the Sydney Harbour Bridge? Really now. Even picking from just the world's bridges, there are other modern bridges I would put in front of that one. Broadway and the West End are a bit of a toss up, however Broadway wins out by having a better song about it, George Benson's "On Boradway". The only song I know about the West End is the Pet Shop Boys "West End Girls". Ugh! No contest!
Velvet-Glove
Prince
If I had a vote I would include Sydney Opera House (a very distinctive cultural icon IMHO) and Red Square for it's fabulous architecture. As an Englishwoman I would love to see Big Ben make a comeback but I think, with 4 wonders, the UK is fairly well represented in the game so any changes/extras would be more fairly allocated if they were from another country/culture.
The only other military academy I know of is Sandhurst, a prestigious academy where all British army officers are trained. It may not be very well known globally, however. For that matter, I would argue the assertion that West Point is well known globally too.
The only other military academy I know of is Sandhurst, a prestigious academy where all British army officers are trained. It may not be very well known globally, however. For that matter, I would argue the assertion that West Point is well known globally too.
gunkulator
Emperor
Yeah, I guess there really aren't any well known modern military academies.
Red Square also seems like an iconic representation of a nation although the Kremlin forms one of its borders and that's already in the game. I believe most of it was built in the 1500s so it's hardly a modern era wonder.
Syndey Opera House? Absolutely should be in the game. It's famous all over the world.
Big Ben too. Who doesn't know about Big Ben?
Other modern wonders like the Chunnel or the Panama Canal should also be added.
Red Square also seems like an iconic representation of a nation although the Kremlin forms one of its borders and that's already in the game. I believe most of it was built in the 1500s so it's hardly a modern era wonder.
Syndey Opera House? Absolutely should be in the game. It's famous all over the world.
Big Ben too. Who doesn't know about Big Ben?
Other modern wonders like the Chunnel or the Panama Canal should also be added.
ZerrorR
Warlord
I think that "The iNternet" is presented under the label of the world project...
As for wonders... noone mentioned the Olypic games
As for wonders... noone mentioned the Olypic games
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
The problem with "Sydney Opera House" is pretty simple.
"Sydney Opera House has been built in Paris."
It's for that reason that both the Great Library and Great Wall have their names shortened from the usual full versions (Great Library OF ALEXANDRIA ; Great Wall OF CHINA).
On the other hand, "The opera house has been built in..." just doesn't sound like a wonder. It would need a full name, but then, chances are, that full name (if it even exists) isn't well-known worldwide.
"Sydney Opera House has been built in Paris."
It's for that reason that both the Great Library and Great Wall have their names shortened from the usual full versions (Great Library OF ALEXANDRIA ; Great Wall OF CHINA).
On the other hand, "The opera house has been built in..." just doesn't sound like a wonder. It would need a full name, but then, chances are, that full name (if it even exists) isn't well-known worldwide.
Ursh
Chieftain
I would really like to see the World Bank wonder put into the game.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
I see your point, Bearman. I live in Canada, so American culture dominates our point of view. Several tiles have flipped up here, I'd say. 
I like the Americans I've met quite a bit, but--at the risk of making generalizations about an entire nation--they do tend to be myopic, culture-wise. I think the game designers and developers are fairly sophisticated, but they're still American and bound to have an American perspective, and dare I say a bias.
I like the Americans I've met quite a bit, but--at the risk of making generalizations about an entire nation--they do tend to be myopic, culture-wise. I think the game designers and developers are fairly sophisticated, but they're still American and bound to have an American perspective, and dare I say a bias.
ltischer
Chieftain
As a born & raised American, yes there's bias in the game. I think it's just a natural result coming from American designers. Americans are much more myopic than the rest of the world. It's actually a pet peeve of mine that our education system doesn't put much more emphasis on world geography and world history. These are favorite subjects of mine, as is international travel (so far I've visited 18 countries on 3 continents and lots of islands).
As for other wonders for the game, I would love to see The Great Opera House (based on the one in Sydney - it's beautiful). Also, Big Ben should be added. And how about the International Space Station as a national wonder, but one who's benefits increase (for all who've built it) with each nation that completes it. You could also set one up called the World Radioastronomy Network that could work the same way.
Just my two cents.
As for other wonders for the game, I would love to see The Great Opera House (based on the one in Sydney - it's beautiful). Also, Big Ben should be added. And how about the International Space Station as a national wonder, but one who's benefits increase (for all who've built it) with each nation that completes it. You could also set one up called the World Radioastronomy Network that could work the same way.
Just my two cents.
Some non-US wonders:
More modern ones:
Bullet train - probably best suited to a national wonder
Louvre
More ancient ones:
The Grand Canal
Terracotta army
Tai Shan (if there is any "holy place" in China this is it)
From wikipedia
al-Masjid al-Haram (The Sacred Mosque) at Mecca
The Temple of Solomon
EDIT: Oops, I just realised - Tai Shan as represented by Dai Miao, the Holy Mosque and the Temple of Solomon are already in the game as holy shrines. So, just ignore what I wrote. I feel a bit silly now
In my defense I never pay attention to the names of the shrines. And I always seem to be Hindu/Buddhist...
More modern ones:
Bullet train - probably best suited to a national wonder
Louvre
More ancient ones:
The Grand Canal
Terracotta army
Tai Shan (if there is any "holy place" in China this is it)
From wikipedia
Religious worship of Mount Tai has a tradition of 3,000 years, it has been practiced from the time of the Shang to that of the Qing Dynasty. Over time, this worship evolved into an official imperial rite and Mount Tai became one of the principal places where the emperor would pay homage to Heaven (on the summit) and Earth (at the foot of the mountain) in the Fengshan Sacrifices (封禪
al-Masjid al-Haram (The Sacred Mosque) at Mecca
The Temple of Solomon
EDIT: Oops, I just realised - Tai Shan as represented by Dai Miao, the Holy Mosque and the Temple of Solomon are already in the game as holy shrines. So, just ignore what I wrote. I feel a bit silly now
In my defense I never pay attention to the names of the shrines. And I always seem to be Hindu/Buddhist...They used to have Sun Tzu's War Academy. They probably replaced it with West Point because they needed a military wonder later in the game. That's probably why the Great Wall got the boot too. Personally, I'd liked both back.
I strongly agree with the Sydney Opera House. If we can have Broadway, then yes. Big Ben is also cool and I'd like it to return.
I think they could put the CN Tower of Toronto of there. Wasn't it like the tallest structure for a while until the Sears and others Towers came along?
I would love to see the Petronas Towers of Malaysia just because they are so cool.
I strongly agree with the Sydney Opera House. If we can have Broadway, then yes. Big Ben is also cool and I'd like it to return.
I think they could put the CN Tower of Toronto of there. Wasn't it like the tallest structure for a while until the Sears and others Towers came along?
I would love to see the Petronas Towers of Malaysia just because they are so cool.
kristopherb
Protective/Charismatic
yes but it should give all cities walls and the its biulit in should get 50%bonuscaitlinm said:
kristopherb
Protective/Charismatic
Three Gorges Dam is usaMon Mauler said:
kristopherb
Protective/Charismatic
big ben/housesof paliment could be a centre of govermentcaitlinm said:
theimmortal1
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2006
- Messages
- 539
Wasn't the "Hoover Dam" a wonder back in the day?
I frankly don't see any bias.
You have to understand how they choose wonders. They don't pick the top 50 wonders, and then place them into the game. They figure out what parts of the game need wonders era and tech wise, and how to create balance with those wonders.
That being said, once they figure out they need a modern era merchant wonder or military wonder..they would pick the most famous wonder that suits it.
And frankly, what more famous than the American wonders? You would have only have a legit case on a couple of them, like with West End. But the vast majority, the American wonders are vastly superior and there is no other alternative.
The ones that could be changed are Broadway, Statue of Liberty, Mt Rushmore (this is where Red Square should come in, Red Square is much more famous than Mt Rushmore), and possibly Rock N Roll
Hollywood-Easily the most famous..what are you going to put in? Cannes? Cmon
Apollo Program-Again America was the first to the moon. The only other nation that at the time went to Space was the USSR. Makes no political sense to use the USSRs program over the Americans. Plus what exactly was the USSR's program called? If it even had a name, most people don't know it
United Nations (Headquarters in US)-obviously that has to be in
Internet (Technology originally developed in US)-obviously again has to be in
Pentagon-its a structural wonder and its the main military building for the strongest military in the world. Can you really think of another military building in this era that is more recognizable than it?
Wall Street-Again, whats the alternative? Its the center for the strongest economy in the world. Instead of Wall Street what would you want..a "Swiss Bank".
Rock N Roll-THis one is fairly borderline for me. They need another culture civ. And they wanted music. Western culture has dominated music, mainly the US and the UK. Be happy they didn't pick something to do with the Spice Girls, Satellite Radio, or ghetto rap.
West Point-Again best military academy in the strongest country in the world.
Whats the alternative? Islamic Extremist Terror Training Camps?
Manhattan Project-If you want nukes in the game, you need the Manhattan Project
Conclusion: People who complain about this are frankly jealous of the success of America. America has been the dominate force the past couple hundred years, culturally, economically, and through brute military might.
Plus you also have to understand how the eras work and the turn based structure.
If a civ dominated from 3000BC to 2000BC how many turns is that? 10? 15? How many wonders can you pick for a civ that is technically only dominate for 10turns? However how many turns are from 1800 to 2000? A lot more turns to fit in a lot more techs with have to include a lot more wonders.
I frankly don't see any bias.
You have to understand how they choose wonders. They don't pick the top 50 wonders, and then place them into the game. They figure out what parts of the game need wonders era and tech wise, and how to create balance with those wonders.
That being said, once they figure out they need a modern era merchant wonder or military wonder..they would pick the most famous wonder that suits it.
And frankly, what more famous than the American wonders? You would have only have a legit case on a couple of them, like with West End. But the vast majority, the American wonders are vastly superior and there is no other alternative.
The ones that could be changed are Broadway, Statue of Liberty, Mt Rushmore (this is where Red Square should come in, Red Square is much more famous than Mt Rushmore), and possibly Rock N Roll
Hollywood-Easily the most famous..what are you going to put in? Cannes? Cmon
Apollo Program-Again America was the first to the moon. The only other nation that at the time went to Space was the USSR. Makes no political sense to use the USSRs program over the Americans. Plus what exactly was the USSR's program called? If it even had a name, most people don't know it
United Nations (Headquarters in US)-obviously that has to be in
Internet (Technology originally developed in US)-obviously again has to be in
Pentagon-its a structural wonder and its the main military building for the strongest military in the world. Can you really think of another military building in this era that is more recognizable than it?
Wall Street-Again, whats the alternative? Its the center for the strongest economy in the world. Instead of Wall Street what would you want..a "Swiss Bank".
Rock N Roll-THis one is fairly borderline for me. They need another culture civ. And they wanted music. Western culture has dominated music, mainly the US and the UK. Be happy they didn't pick something to do with the Spice Girls, Satellite Radio, or ghetto rap.
West Point-Again best military academy in the strongest country in the world.
Whats the alternative? Islamic Extremist Terror Training Camps?
Manhattan Project-If you want nukes in the game, you need the Manhattan Project
Conclusion: People who complain about this are frankly jealous of the success of America. America has been the dominate force the past couple hundred years, culturally, economically, and through brute military might.
Plus you also have to understand how the eras work and the turn based structure.
If a civ dominated from 3000BC to 2000BC how many turns is that? 10? 15? How many wonders can you pick for a civ that is technically only dominate for 10turns? However how many turns are from 1800 to 2000? A lot more turns to fit in a lot more techs with have to include a lot more wonders.
Bushface
Deity
No, it is definitely not in the USA but in China. as has been emphasized in at least two other threads in this forum.kristopherb said:
Adding to Conqueror Worm's brilliant suggestions for other wonders, I would like to propose :-
Common Agricultural Policy. Can only be built by France, which then gets 10% extra cash per turn at the expense of all other European civs.
NATO. Project open to American and western European civs. 10% of all income reserved for military research, but not accessible.
Offshore Bank. Can only be built under Dictatorship: 10% gross income reserved for dictator's personal use.
Which leads me nicely to Skirmisher's mention of Palatul Poporului, a.k.a. the biggest white elephant in the world (and one which I have seen). This opens up a whole new class of "national wonders", to be a severe drain on the builder and offer no benefit, but which absolutely must be built as a victory condition if certain conditions are met, such as some number of turns running Police State. And once these conditions are met, the encumbrance cannot be halted until completion. Running Bureaucracy increases the cost after each five turn interval. I leave it to others to suggest a suitable thing for other civs (clearly a different name for each, but with identical costs) and for England would put forward the Millennium Dome as first choice.
theimmortal1, have you even read the thread?
China is going to be the dominant world power sooner than later, especially if we keep electing ******s who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and if Civ's still around, it'll be interesting to see what changes.
That should not even be a wonder in the first place, it should be a technology. It would be like making electricity a wonder -- it's not. The internet should be a technology and you should get a free technology when you discover it, by the very nature of what it does.
There are others. Ask someone who lives in the UK or China.
Except that The NY Stock Exchange was a copy of another country's. I believe in the UK, they have a Wall Street equivalent called the West End that was there first.
Well I started this thread and I'm from America. I am typing this from my home in NY. But it's nice to know that you are dismissive of other cultures and you have a gross sense of entitlement.
China is going to be the dominant world power sooner than later, especially if we keep electing ******s who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, and if Civ's still around, it'll be interesting to see what changes.
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