Wonders Strategy Article: Oracle

[Jedi_Otis]

I just find it funny when everyone so anal to win the Liberism race to get a free tech but too few love for the Oracle . The free tech in this early stages is so huge , it usually take you 20-30 turn to research them

The prerequisite techs needed to build the Oracle neither feed nor defend your people. Those may be more important considerations at such an early stage of the game and a lot of players don't want to take the risk.

 

[mi6agent]

The prerequisite techs needed to build the Oracle neither feed nor defend your people. Those may be more important considerations at such an early stage of the game and a lot of players don't want to take the risk.

It's a gamble , what about those tech Masonary and build the Mids , they still alive didnt they ? That separate good player from the bad one

 

[StrategeryBush]

I just find it funny when everyone so anal to win the Liberism race to get a free tech but too few love for the Oracle . The free tech in this early stages is so huge , it usually take you 20-30 turn to research them

Liberalism is a much more useful tech path to follow, even on the odd occasion when you don't win the race. Getting the Oracle is a much iffier proposition and the opportunity cost is much higher than with the Lib race, as you have to follow a much less useful tech path, and spend a lot of hammers which could have been turned into an earlier city in a superior location than what you wind up with even if you do manage to complete the Oracle.

I agree that when you get it it is one of the stronger wonders; however, if you fail in the attempt, the small slug of gold you get does not compensate you for the weak tech path that you had to follow in order to set up the attempt.

 

[Crusher1]

The Oracle's use is simple, you get a Free Tech and what's not to like about that! It requires the knowledge priesthood, so the techpath is a little more difficult at higher levels. It get's a 100% production bonus with marble.

Overall a great wonder and much more valuable than SH. At higher levels the tech path shouldn't be a problem. Simply back fill with with MC/COL, pick up Monarchy while your there then progress up Aesth/Lit > Lib beeline.

The only real issue is close neighbors and a loss of good potential city sites. Otherwise, their are too many ways to utilize The Oracle to make it quite handy.

 

[mirthadir]

At higher levels the tech path shouldn't be a problem. Simply back fill with with MC/COL, pick up Monarchy while your there then progress up Aesth/Lit > Lib beeline.

On deity, it is extremely hard to nab a MC slingshot unless you have a good set up for techs and plenty of chop potential. With the AI having two cities from the start it starts wonders far ealier and has such massive tech advantages that even the CoL slingshot can be a gamble, particularly if you have hunting/wheel or some other horrid starting techs. Also on deity you can run into major problems with barbs if you don't spend a good bit of early effort on either fogbusting, getting axes/chariots/archers, or taking the GW. A few of the AIs seem to beeline it so hard that even with a dedicated push, the Oracle isn't garunteed with giving up multiple expansion locations.

Backfill trading is dependant upon good trading partners, getting Shaka and Toko as your neighbors kinda nerfs the backfilling.

Still easily the third most powerful wonder of the ancient era and extremely powerful.

 

[Norzin]

On deity, it is extremely hard to nab a MC slingshot unless you have a good set up for techs and plenty of chop potential. With the AI having two cities from the start it starts wonders far ealier and has such massive tech advantages that even the CoL slingshot can be a gamble, particularly if you have hunting/wheel or some other horrid starting techs.

i don't think many people play deity so that isnt much of an issue. on the other levels it can lead to a strong opening and you also have to factor in ai denial.

the Oracle isn't garunteed with giving up multiple expansion locations.

thats exaggerated. the oracle doesnt cost 200 hammers and if your industrious you can always chop it out at a new city location and put some culture in a neighbors face blocking off good land.

Backfill trading is dependant upon good trading partners, getting Shaka and Toko as your neighbors kinda nerfs the backfilling.

that happens less often than people who will trade.

Still easily the third most powerful wonder of the ancient era and extremely powerful.

this actually makes sense.

 

[mi6agent]

Liberalism is a much more useful tech path to follow, even on the odd occasion when you don't win the race. Getting the Oracle is a much iffier proposition and the opportunity cost is much higher than with the Lib race, as you have to follow a much less useful tech path, and spend a lot of hammers which could have been turned into an earlier city in a superior location than what you wind up with even if you do manage to complete the Oracle.

I agree that when you get it it is one of the stronger wonders; however, if you fail in the attempt, the small slug of gold you get does not compensate you for the weak tech path that you had to follow in order to set up the attempt.

Your allegation of " spending the hammer for a settler " is funny. Every wonder cost hammer, so every wonder is bad ?? Obviously if you build a wonder, you cant expand as fast, but the benefit of the wonder give you other advantage
about the tech path, not that bad. Open Mornachy and COL. Not worse than Mansonary for the mids for sure

 

[qnl]

I usually tend to go the MC route with the free tech because it leads into Machinery, giving me Crossbowmen and eventually Macemen.

 

[qnl]

Your allegation of " spending the hammer for a settler " is funny. Every wonder cost hammer, so every wonder is bad ?? Obviously if you build a wonder, you cant expand as fast, but the benefit of the wonder give you other advantage
about the tech path, not that bad. Open Mornachy and COL. Not worse than Mansonary for the mids for sure

I don't think Strategery Bush mentioned spending hammers for settlers.

 

[Th3 PuNiSh3R]

Even if it cost you a full settler the Oracle is strong. On normal MC is over 700 and as others have mentioned, it opens up good trade value. Also, it's not like you get an extra settler because you don't. If I make the Oracle I plan to keep expanding too. The only difference is you will settle your next city 7-8 turns sooner, nothing more. Eventually both people will hit the wall and be unable to expand further due to maintenance. Now if your playing on a tiny pangea map you could run into the issue of permanent loss of land but most people don't play those types of settings.

So which is better. Building the Oracle and receiving over 700 from a free tech plus another 1,500-2,500 beakers from trade or settling one of your cities 7 turns later.

 

[mi6agent]

he said the hammer can turn in an early city

 

[StrategeryBush]

Your allegation of " spending the hammer for a settler " is funny. Every wonder cost hammer, so every wonder is bad ?? Obviously if you build a wonder, you cant expand as fast, but the benefit of the wonder give you other advantage
about the tech path, not that bad. Open Mornachy and COL. Not worse than Mansonary for the mids for sure

Every build in the game comes with an opportunity cost. What else could you have done with the hammers? Trying to build the Taj Mahal is not likely to cost you a prime city location.

The Priesthood tech path is not necessarily a bad one; however, in order to reliably get the Oracle you have to go down that path quicker, and skip some other potentially quite useful early techs.

I am not saying that you should never build the Oracle, and I don't think that my post could be construed to say that. In my current game I started with gold and a whole bunch of forest and it was an easy decision to go for the Oracle, even without Marble or Industrious. There is a huge upside, but there can be significant risk to the attempt as well.

None of the downside matters if your reaction to the AI beating you to the Oracle by one turn is to reload an autosave and whip the thing a couple of turns sooner, or if you just give up and start a new game since you only have 30 minutes invested, but if you are going to play it out, it can be a tough setback to recover from.

 

[jakobin]

I used to beeline oracle when i was a noble player.

Now i ignore it 9/10 times and I play emperor.

:shrug:

 

[mi6agent]

Every build in the game comes with an opportunity cost. What else could you have done with the hammers? Trying to build the Taj Mahal is not likely to cost you a prime city location.

yes but it'll cost you 10+ Maceman which could be upgrade to Rifleman dozen turn later

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Even if it cost you a full settler the Oracle is strong. On normal MC is over 700 and as others have mentioned, it opens up good trade value. Also, it's not like you get an extra settler because you don't. If I make the Oracle I plan to keep expanding too. The only difference is you will settle your next city 7-8 turns sooner, nothing more. Eventually both people will hit the wall and be unable to expand further due to maintenance. Now if your playing on a tiny pangea map you could run into the issue of permanent loss of land but most people don't play those types of settings.

So which is better. Building the Oracle and receiving over 700 from a free tech plus another 1,500-2,500 beakers from trade or settling one of your cities 7 turns later.

You have to read the situation appropriately based on difficulty. The oracle IS strong but it isn't always worth the risk.

You can get a good idea based on your start (commerce or not?) and when stonehenge/judaism are taken. Those AIs favor that path and will get oracle much sooner than otherwise.

And it isn't a "free" tech. It's the tech at the cost of hammers...usually at a very favorable conversion rate. But sometimes the extra city is actually better. You don't really want to lose something like a triple gem site or a strategic resource to the AI, do you? Besides, rare are maps where maintenance is the problem rather than running out of space, unless you're on huge or something.

I used to beeline oracle when i was a noble player.

Now i ignore it 9/10 times and I play emperor.

:shrug:

With a good bureaucracy capitol snapping something like CoL, teching or trading for monarchy/math, and getting to civil service in the BC's is pretty powerful even on emperor and immortal, and if the start is right it's not a huge gamble.

 

[Th3 PuNiSh3R]

yes but it'll cost you 10+ Maceman which could be upgrade to Rifleman dozen turn later

People are crazy on these forums man and I been seen crazy stuff everywhere tonight! Say you got marble so Taj only be 350 and dat be 5 Mace normal. Say you got 10 cities averaging 6 hammer tiles of some sort per city. With a golded aged that be 600 extra and dat before you count in da extra and GPP.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

People are crazy on these forums man and I been seen crazy stuff everywhere tonight! Say you got marble so Taj only be 350 and dat be 5 Mace normal. Say you got 10 cities averaging 6 hammer tiles of some sort per city. With a golded aged that be 600 extra and dat before you count in da extra and GPP.

No mention of the switch to nationhood to DRAFT the rifles?

 

[mi6agent]

People are crazy on these forums man and I been seen crazy stuff everywhere tonight! Say you got marble so Taj only be 350 and dat be 5 Mace normal. Say you got 10 cities averaging 6 hammer tiles of some sort per city. With a golded aged that be 600 extra and dat before you count in da extra and GPP.

So if you dont have marble ? haha, see ?
draft ? I can draft too and you still 10 rifle less

 

[Crusher1]

GAs lead to more gold which can upgrade more units which have been non stop produced from an early HE city. This bypasses dependence, happiness, and loss of commerce from a higher slider and lower population. Drafting is still one of the most powerful ways to produce units, especially in a farm heavy economy but you'll do far better with the Taj than w/out.

 

[mi6agent]

it's good to have , but a lot of time you dont have marble, not Ind , nor a great production city. 750 hammer is a pain in the ass.