Wonders

[Berenthor]

Pyramids is all government civics are enabled. I think you mean Stonehenge which gives a free monument in every city (but that is it for bonus). I wouldn't include it in my opinion, even as a World wonder.

 

[Sengir]

Pyramids gave a free granary in civ3.

 

[Berenthor]

Ah I did not know that, never played civ3 .

 

[xmen510]

Ah, Civ3, I guess I was mistaken. I don't mind not putting it in. If we feel it is unbalanced for what we want that is fine. I only decided to show it, because I thought it was cool, so don't worry about me.

 

[xmen510]

Core Wonders:

Spoiler :

- Rammas Echor (Wall of the Pelennor) (Great Wall)
- Mithril Mine: 1 Mithril Resource, +5% Gold in that city
- Durin's Tower (at the top of the Moria, where Gandalf fought the Balrog)
- The Great Fountains (of Gondolin, one great elven city)
- The Last March of the Ents (make hostile Ents randomly spawn at the map)
- The Noldolant (National Epic)
- The Gate of the Noldor (the Gate of the Elves, a secret passage to their city)
- The Arkenstone (a very valuable gem of the dwarves)
- Henneth Annun (a refuge and outpost of Gondor)
- Palantiri (allows to build the Palantir national unit)
- The Seven Beacons
- Forge of Ãol (one great elven-smith)
- Dagorlad
- Cirith Ungol (allows to make Laracna) - personal note: not sure what this is
- The Silmarils
- Grand Leaguer (ie the siege of Angband)
- Ultimate Hoard
- Voyage of Earendil
- Saruman's Industry
- Great Armament (Ar-Pharazon's force, intended to attack Valinor)
- The Argonath
- The Houses of Healing
- Tower of Meneldur
- Mindon Eldalieva - personal note: not sure what this is
- The Seats of Amon Hen & Amon Lhaw: Removes Fog of War
- The Nine Rings of Power (National Wonder) (Required to build Mounted Nazgul Units)
- The One Ring
- Dol Guldur
- Barad-Dur
- Thangorodhrim (Towers of the evil capital in the first age)
- The White Council
- Dwarven Mithril Mine: 1 Mithril Resource, +15% Gold in that city
- The Seven Dwarven Rings (National Wonder)
- The Three Elven Rings (the same, but doesn't get controled by sauron - they removed the rings before he could do so)
- Elven Flet: +10% Defence in all Cities (or Unique Building as suggested by Berenthor)
- Statue of Manwe
- Trees of the Valar
- Orthanc (Tower of Isengard)
- Lake City (Esgaroth)
- The Hornburg (Helm's Deep)
- The White Tree (National)
- The Shire (National, allows to make Hobbits)
- Silverdome Temple (of Numenor, as previously mentioned)
- The Lay of Luthian (Heroic Epic)
- The Grey Havens
- Ring of Isengard
- The Barrow Downs

Suggestions for Civ/Race Wonders: - Some are not filled in as I am not sure what to give them.

Spoiler :

Quendi:
- The Three Elven Rings (the same, but doesn't get controled by sauron - they removed the rings before he could do so)
- Great Fountains of Noldolin
- The Noldolant (National Epic)

Noldor: House Of Fingolfin:
- The Gate of the Noldor (the Gate of the Elves, a secret passage to their city)

Noldor: House Of Finwe:
- Forge of Ãol (one great elven-smith)

Teleri:
- The Grey Havens

Sindar:
- Elven Flet: +10% Defence in all Cities (or Unique Building as suggested by Berenthor)

Vanyar:
- Trees of the Valar

Men:

Numenor:
- Great Armament (Ar-Pharazon's force, intended to attack Valinor)

Arnor:
- The Shire (National, allows to make Hobbits)

Gondor:
- The White Tree (National)
- The Seven Beacons

Edain:
- The Lay of Luthian (Heroic Epic)

Rohirrim:
- The Hornburg (Helm's Deep)
- The Seven Beacons

Northmen:
- Lake City (Esgaroth)

Dunlendings:
-

Isengard:
- Ring of Isengard
- Orthanc (Tower of Isengard)
- Saruman's Industry

Haradrim:
- Citadel Of Umbar

Easterling:
-

Angmar:
- The Barrow Downs
- The Coming Of The Witch-King

Shadow:

Mordor:
- Barad-Dur
- The Nine Rings of Power (National Wonder) (Required to build Mounted Nazgul Units)
- The One Ring

Angband:
- Thangorodhrim (Towers of the evil capital in the first age)

Khazad:
- The Seven Dwarven Rings (National Wonder)
- Durin's Tower (at the top of the Moria, where Gandalf fought the Balrog)

Longbeards:
- Dwarven Mithril Mine: 1 Mithril Resource, +15% Gold in that city

Broadbeams & Firebeards:
- Dwarven Mithril Mine: 1 Mithril Resource, +15% Gold in that city

Evil Wonders:

Spoiler :

- Dol Guldur
- Cirith Ungol

Good Wonders:

Spoiler :

- Last March of the Ents
- The White Council
- Silmarils
- Statue of Manwe
- Voyage of Earendil

Open Wonders:

Spoiler :

- Rammas Echor (Wall of the Pelennor) (Great Wall)
- Palantiri
- Mithril Mine: 1 Mithril Resource, +5% Gold in that city
- Henneth Annun (a refuge and outpost of Gondor)
- Dagorlad
- Grand Leaguer (ie the siege of Angband)
- Ultimate Hoard
- The Argonath
- The Houses of Healing
- Tower of Meneldur
- Mindon Eldalieva - personal note: not sure what this is
- The Seats of Amon Hen & Amon Lhaw: Removes Fog of War
- Statue of Manwe
- Silverdome Temple (of Numenor, as previously mentioned)

 

[Berenthor]

For the haradrim maybe the Citadel of Umbar or the Haven of Umbar as a national wonder. Can only be build in a coast city. Also, the one ring and nine rings of power would be a wonder for Mordor and Coming of the Witch-King would be a wonder for Angmar. The seven dwarven rings should be limited to the dwarves if we are going to put them in. The elven rings only for the elves.

We might also want to limit some wonders to good and evil to seperate them even further. Although looking at the list, a lot might really be better as national wonders such as Silverdome Temple or the arkenstone.
Good:
Last March of the Ents
Palantiri
Silmarils
White Council
Statue of Manwe
Voyage of Earendil
Great Fountains of Noldolin

Evil:
Dol Goldur
Cirith Ungol

I would suggest to have four types of wonders:
- Civ specific wonders
- Groups of civ specific wonders (i.e. Rohan and Gondor can both build the Beacons or all quendi can build the great fountains)
- Allignment specific wonders
- Open wonders

 

[xmen510]

Updated my aove lists with your suggestion Berenthor. Good Work.

 

[T_F]

Are we going to differentiate between Projects and Wonders (even just in name)? There are some things up there that sound more like they should be called Projects than Wonders (like Last March of the Ents, etc).

 

[xmen510]

I agree. I haven't differentiated anything in that list as of yet however. If you would like to come up with some suggestions go right ahead. I believe the Rings would all be projects myself. Of course the Ent ones as well.

 

[Breunor]

I'm not sure what these wonders cost and what they do, but it seems like a nice list. Are there too many? I guess if a lot of these are national or restircted to certain powers, it isn't too bad, but if therea re too many 'great wonders' they lose some of their appeal.

Why are the palantiri good only? Sorry, maybe I just don't know the lore well enough but it didn;t seem to me to be anything about their nature that requires them to be 'good'.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[xmen510]

No, good points made. The Palantiri are good I suppose because they were brought out of Numenor by Elendil. I think we might have something special planned for them anyway in the other Forum.

 

[T_F]

AFAIK, the Palantíri were gifts from the Valar to Númenor. The Master Palantír was at Tol Eressëa.

I'll see if I can get a projects/wonders list up tomorrow sometime.

 

[Breunor]

AFAIK, the Palantíri were gifts from the Valar to Númenor. The Master Palantír was at Tol Eressëa.

I'll see if I can get a projects/wonders list up tomorrow sometime.

I don't think so, I think the Palantir's were created by the Nolder while in Valinor, I think by Feanor? They were given to the Numenoreans (by Gil-Galad). Therefore, I think they are a function of Feanor's crafting skill, not of 'good'. Their impact on Pippin would also indicate they aren't necessarily 'good'.

Ok, I looked it up, here is a reference:

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Palantir


Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[T_F]

Ah, you're right then. I agree maybe they shouldn't be 'good', though they were intended to be used for good they were apparently easily used to corrupt.

 

[Berenthor]

Ah forgot about that, than maybe we should move the palantiri to the open wonders section so everyone can build them. Maybe we should move the siege of angband to the good civs. Also, I would like some more evil wonders to balance them a little. If you look at the list of open wonders, some really don't fit for both good and evil in my opinion like the healing houses for example. But moving to many will give us almost no open wonders. What are you're ideas?

 

[xmen510]

Palantiri moved to Open Wonders.

 

[Berenthor]

What about the siege of Angband? Should we move more of the more specific wonders to their respective civs or allignment? Do you still have ideas about evil wonders?

 

[xmen510]

I'm really not sure. If we restrict Wonders and such too much, then people might not like it as much. We might be going too far. I just can't say.

 

[Berenthor]

I agree with what your saying. The only problem is that some really don't fit for some civs like the Siege of Angband for evil/shadow civs is very wierd. I don't know. Otherwise just leave them as is.

 

[xmen510]

Perhaps, instead of so many specific Civ Wonders, we have more Alingment based Wonders. Maybe only 1 Wonder per CIV, then a few Open ones, then a bunch of Alingment based ones. Except for Isengard. Being a single city civ, they could have the three specific for them already discussed. That is an idea or we could divide them up more.

We could also leav it completely open for a truly random game expect for just a very few, like The Seige of Angband and the Rings Projects, Dwarven Mithril Mines, etc.