Worker Chop - the (preliminary) Guide

[dh_epic]

You don't even necessarily need to steal a worker. You can survive without one much longer than you think. I'm not saying your strategy doesn't work -- it does. But think about it this way:

Build a worker right away, and:

• you MUST rush to bronzeworking before any other tech
• you're in ideal shape to beat everyone to iron working and swords (or jaguars!!!)
• CHOP FOR SETTLER
  • second city happens faster
  • your second city hurts your research sooner
  • you can expand slightly faster
  • you get to choose the ideal locations sooner
  • you hit your economy's threshold point sooner

It works. It's good. But not always.

Build a worker a touch later, and:

• your city grows to size 3, 4, even 6
• your research starts moving faster
• even with forest chops, more population will produce EVERYTHING (units, buildings, workers, settlers) faster
• a bigger city means that when you finally produce your second city, the maintainance cost won't hurt your research as much
• you can rush to other technologies BEFORE bronzeworking
• MOUNTED UNITS
  • pastures will make your city grow faster
  • making a pasture before you chop will get a settler out slightly faster
  • you save your chops for horse archers!
  • you can choke even a deity AI by stealing or intimidating workers!
  • only works if you have horses
• RELIGION
  • found buddhism or hinduism -- very time sensitive
  • a bigger city puts you in better shape for monotheism
  • found judaism, and get the production bonus of organized religion sooner
  • you save your chops for the Oracle!
• if someone attacks, being workerless means they can't pillage improvements, can't steal your worker, and you don't lose time from having a worker hiding behind city walls

There are tradeoffs, for sure. Worker chops are valuable, but sometimes it's better to wait. The game is incredibly balanced in that there's more than one smart way to play every moment. It depends on your traits, your starting location, and your opponents.

 

[Padmewan]

I started a new Noble game psyched to really concentrate on chop-rushing, but in the one game in which I didn't get sacked by barbarians (I play with raging barbs), I started in the middle of a flood plains with no trees in sight. Ironically, that game really took off, I built a hella lot of 10XP units fighting barbs, and picked up some nice Wonders too. Starting in a flood plain with stone and gold was a nice concession prize for not having any forests!

 

[Mujadaddy]

Stone &/or Marble can REALLY change your game

 

[ajil]

I prefer going worker first, unless I am playing with a spiritual civ, in which case I try and get 4 of the 7 religions, so I have to go buddhism first. If that is the case, the worker would be worthless for about 10 turns until i get bronze working, so I build a warrior first. One problem with the strategy I mentioned earlier in the thread is that sometimes I lose my worker to barbs, mainly because I am trying to chop a forest outside my borders.

 

[Batvanio]

I prefer going worker first, unless I am playing with a spiritual civ, in which case I try and get 4 of the 7 religions, so I have to go buddhism first. If that is the case, the worker would be worthless for about 10 turns until i get bronze working, so I build a warrior first. One problem with the strategy I mentioned earlier in the thread is that sometimes I lose my worker to barbs, mainly because I am trying to chop a forest outside my borders.

still ajil - you most probably refer to prince or less. coz for higher levels you will be definitely smashed with a worker first. On Emperor you can get first to maximum 1 religion - even that is too much and not worth.

Even if you dont manage to steal the worker you will have to attack or perish on higher levels.

Let me say some figures about chopping that I never saw posted here so you all invent your own personal strat:

- a forest is worth 0.40 health ( from civilopedia)
- spawning forest happens not so often later in game - so you should not count much on having more forests that you alredy have.
usually it happens on adjacent space without resource or building/road.
- 1 or 2 forest in your city radius give you 0 health bonus
- 3 forest in your city radius give you one health
- 5 give you 2 health bonus
- 8 give you 3 health bonus
- even if city squires with forest overlap you still get the health bonus
- even if you dont use the forests you still get the bonus
- a chopped forest gives you 45 hammers.
- a chopped forest far outside the city radius gives you 20 hammers ( didn test exactly how the value changes )
- a chopped forest outside your city borders but closer to a rival city gives you NO hammers ( must be tested if it gives the rival city some boost )

Speaking about health - building your city adjacent to fresh water gives you 2 permanent health bonus

 

[EridanMan]

Batvino, I'm playing successfully at monarch level At the moment, with a worker-first starting strategy... So it does work at the higher levels.

I still want to try to worker-steal start (seems like the best of both worlds)... But first I need to finish up my current game.

 

[walkerjks]

still ajil - you most probably refer to prince or less. coz for higher levels you will be definitely smashed with a worker first. On Emperor you can get first to maximum 1 religion - even that is too much and not worth.

Even if you dont manage to steal the worker you will have to attack or perish on higher levels.

That's nonsense. I build worker first on Emperor and have won the last 2 games. I never fight offensive wars (and defensive wars only happen in about 50% of my games).

I quickly expand to 3 or 4 cities. I quickly get archery (2nd tech after bronze worker if I play Catherine. 3rd tech if Elizabeth) for barbarian defense. And then I settle into full building mode for a cultural win.

I recognize that this would not work so well in multi-player. I admit that a hyper-aggressive player could stomp me early, but neither the AI nor barbarians are hyper-aggresive before 2000 BC or so in single player games. By then, I am ready for them.

 

[Arkanin]

still ajil - you most probably refer to prince or less. coz for higher levels you will be definitely smashed with a worker first. On Emperor you can get first to maximum 1 religion - even that is too much and not worth.

Nah... I do just fine building my worker first on emperor, which is what I usually do.

 

[Stuporstar]

Excellent thread! I used to be anti-chopping when I first started playing, but you guys have some very good points in favour of it. I'm going to try this strategy in my next game.

 

[kurdi]

Hi ... I've been chopping my way to an early advantage as well. My question is: is there a downside to this, and what is it?

 

[Rosecroix]

There is actually diminishing returns to woodchopping, at least outside the cityradius. about 5-6 tiles away it gives nothing. A tip for multiplayer is playing mansa musa and chop up either 2 settlers or 4-5 skirmisher depending on how close you are to your fellow players. It's only 3 techs to research, and if you cripple your captial it doesnt matter. you have new cities soon enough and all the new open areas can be spammed with cottages that will also give you a techlead towards the beginning of the classical age. Going for code of laws is very nice after the most necessary worker techs since that gives you your first religion and you can chop the oracle in one of your new cities for an extra +50% to the cash cow your capital has become when you pick civil service. Or if you miss the oracle its usually only about 10 turns or so to research it with your giant commerce anyway.

 

[Alexfrog]

I'm a definite advocate of worker chopping (I started an early thread on it here), but I am having trouble with it on immortal difficulty, because having the 2nd and 3rd cities so fast due to worker/settler w/chopping have more maintenance upkeep than they do at lower difficulty levels, AND the human barbarians come out earlier and in more force so it is much harder to keep those 2nd and 3rd cities safe.


Thoughts on this strategy at VERY high difficulties?

I think it is amazing at monarch and below.

 

[walkerjks]

Perhaps the barbarian problem can be solved by chop-rushing archers. So maybe the sequence is archer-archer-settler-archer-archer-settler, or something similar.

Of course one of those settlers better go grab some copper since the barbarian axeman won't be too far off.

 

[R3dKnight]

yeah i find the higher difficulty simply cheated with those hostile environments around that makes viable tactics at lower lvl very very hard to pull off. I know the AI civs are facing the same thing, but they have bonus units and production.

 

[Blkbird]

I was trying to chop-rush a library for a newly captured city, and the chopping ended at the same time as the resistance (both at the end of the same turn). To my complete shock, the hammers were not added to the city's production, they were done - to nowhere! So I know now, never finish chopping before the resistance ends. I retried with chopping one turn later (still starting during the resistance), and everything was fine then.

You may want to add this particular info to the guide.

 

[Tesuji]

Very good point -
Not just for hills, but for everything- always chop first, than build the improvement - you'll get the sheild bonus that many turns sooner.

sure we're only talking a turn or two - but if your goal is to maximize your early game advantage, every single turn counts.

This was my first thought as well. However, it's not as much a no-brainer as it may first sound. The reason is that if you first chop and then build something on that tile, you lose one hammer per turn it takes to complete the next improvement.

Take for example a hill/forest/plains tile. It gives 3 hammers, which you may want to use to build a wonder. You can boost the tile to produce 4 hammers by building a mine. If you chop first and then build a mine, you lose 5 hammers compared to just building a mine in 8 turns.

It depends, chop first if the tile is not being worked on and the improvement wouldn't finish before completing the build (counting the 30+ hammers the chop makes you.)

 

[Taelis]

I'm a definite advocate of worker chopping (I started an early thread on it here), but I am having trouble with it on immortal difficulty, because having the 2nd and 3rd cities so fast due to worker/settler w/chopping have more maintenance upkeep than they do at lower difficulty levels, AND the human barbarians come out earlier and in more force so it is much harder to keep those 2nd and 3rd cities safe.

Thoughts on this strategy at VERY high difficulties?

I think it is amazing at monarch and below.

With a nice start on immortal (raging barbs), I chop rush three cities plus the Oracle, and place my cities on hills - an archer fortified in a city on a hill can stand up to anything the barbarians have. Even warriors do well until the axemen show up.

But I play Isabella and usually go for a religion first, so I build several warriors while I research meditation/polytheism, mining, and bronze working. By then my city is often size 4, so I can whip out a worker in 2 turns.

Worker first would be very risky on immortal, I think.

 

[lorn]

Immediate worker or immediate warrior ? I would go for the 2nd option.

Warrior first has many benefits that are,imo, extremely valuable :
- growth to size 2 faster
- scouting power :
. increase the chance of finding the best location for town 2
. increase the chance of finding a valuable hut around
- secures the territory early, promotions etc.

 

[jesusin]

@Alexfrog Thoughts on this strategy at VERY high difficulties?

I would not use chops towards Settlers or Workers at Deity, unless I am very lucky with luxuries in the starting location. The cities are not going to grow much because of the happiness limit, so I prefer having hammers than food.

 

[DaviddesJ]

But I play Isabella and usually go for a religion first, so I build several warriors while I research meditation/polytheism, mining, and bronze working. By then my city is often size 4, so I can whip out a worker in 2 turns.

I don't understand this comment at all. If you haven't improved any tiles at all, a size-4 city is going to build workers much more slowly than this. If you're on a hill, typical output (working mostly forests) would be 10 food and 5 shields. After your city consumes 8 food, that's a net of +7 toward the worker, which means it will take 9 turns.

What are you saying?