Worker steals

[DaveMcW]

On Immortal or Deity, the AI starts with one or two workers respectively, which you can often steal with your initial warrior and sign peace later.

"often" is the key word. You have to set your build order before you know it will work, which means game over if it fails.

 

[bryanw1995]

huh? if you get the initial worker out 10 turns later that is rarely a make/break situation. if your inital warrior and first built unit don't find any major civs by turn 15-20 then you'll probably want to build or buy a worker asap. in my experience that is a very rare occurence on most maps, however.

 

[biohazard72]

Alpaca, having not played around with it yet, I'm curious how often you're able to get peace from an AI after stealing a Worker or two from them. Also whether or not they hold a grudge giving you unfair RAs and luxury sale deals afterward.

I say this because losing one AI to sell luxuries to or sign RAs with that early in the game seems like a steep price to pay for just one Worker.

 

[Nares]

Rush-buying the worker with your first 310 is the best gold spent in the entire game.

Rush-buying a second worker with your first 310g and building the first is still some of the best gold spent in the entire game.

 

[NukeAJS]

I almost always nab my first worker from a CS and immediately declare peace. Sometimes this becomes a bad idea, but only after certain information is revealed -- namely the horse and iron strategic resources under the condition that I don't have any myself. Happiness isn't a factor so early in the game so bribing a CS for a luxury resource generally isn't a problem because all/most of that negative reputation should have healed.

Someone did ask a good question though -- how many turns between declaring on two CSs for some of them to ally against you. I'm curious because there's been sometimes where I see a vulnerable worker from a different CS (than the first I declared on) but I didn't declare out of concern that I'd get a CS alliance against me. There have been a couple of times where it's been a good 20-30 turns later, but I still refrain because of my concern. This tends to be a somewhat rare occasion for me because getting the opportunity to steal two workers from CSs when it's worth it (early in the game) doesn't happen too often because the CSs usually protect their workers pretty well -- but it'd still be nice to know so that I can exploit it to its maximum benefit (especially because I still can't beat diety yet).

As for nabbing rival Civ's workers, I rarely do this because of the random personalities. One of my first games I nabbed two workers from Gandhi (believing he was still a wuss when it came to raising armies). I got peace as soon as I could. Slowly but surely I saw his military level going up and up and up and I couldn't complete with his production. I soon found myself on the defensive about 40 turns later. While I was able to hold my own against Gandhi -- a third party declared on me and I knew I had to Alt-Q it because I saw another sizeable force coming at me from a different direction.

Outside of that little anecdote, I don't think it's wise to worker steal from rivals because it's best done as soon as possible. The problem with declaring ASAP to worker steal is that you usually have very limited information about the surrounding area -- most notably who your other neighbors are (or even if you have any other neighbors!). Declaring on Babylon without being aware you're bordering Monte and Bismarck can quickly devolve to fighting a war on multiple fronts at a time when you can't get the production/coin to support that kind of fight. The flip side is that the first civ you meet is the only on the continent or at least you don't have any neighbors close enough to be concerned about. In which case you will/should probably go to war with that lone civ anyways.

 

[Calouste]

Rush-buying a second worker with your first 310g and building the first is still some of the best gold spent in the entire game.

Yes... I was wondering where people get the 310 from considering they are not working any improved tiles. Of course you could base your game on the chance that you pop a lot of gold from goodie huts, but that's hardly a reliable strategy.

 

[Treso]

Sell your luxury stuff to the AI and get 300 gold. You also can sell your Open Borders.

 

[Calouste]

Sell your luxury stuff to the AI and get 300 gold. You also can sell your Open Borders.

For your first worker? Do your improvements magically appear out of thin air?

 

[Treso]

The guy you quoted said the second worker I guess

 

[bhavv]

I always used to build a monument first, but I found it slows me down too much.

Now what I do is start training a worker. Once the city pops to size 2, change to a settler. Complete settler, then the worker, then a monument. I've found that to be the fastest way to get both a worker and a second city out ASAP. Then I like to steal one worker from a CS, and / or rush buy one with my first 310 gold.

 

[Knut_Are_M]

If you can allways steal a unprotected worker from a rival. If a rival has workers unprotected it is usually a bad player.
stealing early workers from bad rivals will benefit your economy a great deal, and make it alot harder for said rival to take you out.
Even if the player is good, a worker loss within the first 20 turns of the game can put him at such a disatvantage that you can easily conquer said rival.

territory wars in this game can be brutal in the early game where the map is up for grabs. If you can also consider wipeing out there first settler, as it can put you ahead by quite a bit. You usually need 2-3 units nearby for this. Nobody leaves settlers unprotected.

 

[Smote]

Yes, it is always worth it to steal a worker, then deal with the consequences later [so long as you are confident you will in fact keep the worker, and won't just lose it a turn later].

If it is a deity AI, the consequences might be you losing the game. [Early deity AI rush can be tough.] However, you probably would have lost anyways in this case, had you not stole the worker.

If it is any other AI, the consequences are merely loss of a trading partner.

If it is a human, the consequences are an useless enemy, who is going to be ~10-15 turns behind you all game [They lose worker, you gain worker.] They are easily killable w/ swords or longswords later in the game.

 

[Airey]

Rush-buying the worker with your first 310 is the best gold spent in the entire game. You can always "liberate" additional workers later. You'll need them.

Rush-buying a second worker with your first 310g and building the first is still some of the best gold spent in the entire game.

Yes... I was wondering where people get the 310 from considering they are not working any improved tiles. Of course you could base your game on the chance that you pop a lot of gold from goodie huts, but that's hardly a reliable strategy.

Selling 50G OB adds up quickly.

For your first worker? Do your improvements magically appear out of thin air?

I was wondering the samething. Early improvements are excellent.
But without border pop to catch up and open more territory.
I found I have to spend most of that 310G on tile buys.

If it is a deity AI, the consequences might be you losing the game. [Early deity AI rush can be tough.] However, you probably would have lost anyways in this case, had you not stole the worker.

Why would've lost without stealing early worker on Deity?
I always build my own, coz CS is too slow in getting one out.
Neighbour AI steal, usually too long to travel, or if they're too close,
prob not good to agitate them especially with "settling too close" neg modifier.

"often" is the key word. You have to set your build order before you know it will work, which means game over if it fails.

+1

Might be able to deduce, from Bibor's Diplomacy Spreadsheet, which AI is more "Peaceful" thus more likely to sign peace easily.

Diplomacy plays a huge part on Deity. To determine which AI to side with so early without meeting all AIs, is very dicey.
Sometimes it'll work, sometimes it won't.

ie. sometimes the closest neighbouring AI provides a buffer shield zone for you from other AIs, or at least shields one side.
Alienate them super early, at a time Iron/Horse locations are likely unknown, takes future play options away.
And pretty much dictates having to war this AI in the immediate future.

 

[Smote]

Why would've lost without stealing early worker on Deity?
I always build my own, coz CS is too slow in getting one out.
Neighbour AI steal, usually too long to travel, or if they're too close,
prob not good to agitate them especially with "settling too close" neg modifier.

For my playstyle, they are going to war me eventually [Pfft, what's this diplomacy nonsense?]. I suppose you are right, my statement was not universally applicable. My point was that a deity AI minus a worker is easier to beat than a deity AI with the worker.

I agree that travel time plays a big role, its not worth it to worker steal if it takes 10 turns to get home. On Epic/Marathon, it is more worth it than on standard/quick, since travel time is more negligible in relation to everything else.

 

[Airey]

For my playstyle, they are going to war me eventually [Pfft, what's this diplomacy nonsense?]. I suppose you are right, my statement was not universally applicable. My point was that a deity AI minus a worker is easier to beat than a deity AI with the worker.

Ture, I do that a lot too, settling super close and buy lots of land.
Interesting, my nature instinct was to give them reasons to delay their DOW.
Ya...I see your point though.

I just like to maximize options in case
a) the starting location is sandwiched from multiple sides
b) some AI have nasty post-classical units, have option to take them out early might be worthwhile
(might be too late, if have to take care of Neighbour 1st, then them)

Pfft, what's this diplomacy nonsense?

....ya, I know, pointy stick is the only reliable Diplomacy leverage.

 

[Rittmeyer]

For your first worker? Do your improvements magically appear out of thin air?

l


settling ON the luxury is sometimes a very good option and it gives you the trade without any additional magic.

 

[Smote]

l


settling ON the luxury is sometimes a very good option and it gives you the trade without any additional magic.

Yep. Settling ON luxuries is somewhat important in 1-3 city game, and critical in 4+ city game.