World History Mod development thread

[Grishnash]

Spoiler More Ideas that would change the subject from armies so you don't have to read it if you don't want :p :

Okay, new idea. Traffic! Heavy Traffic tends to populate cities, like during world war II when America was pumping out troops towards Japan, cities like San Diego benefited from it in terms of growth due to the amount of troop traffic, which not only brought people to start shops for the traffic, but triggered building of hotals and other such projects, at wars end many of the soldiers stayed adding to the size of the city.
So, the Traffic idea is this: If a large amount of units continuously pass through a city(or into a city) the city will get +10% of the food it took to build the unit (If units take food. If not, then like 1 food?)
When the Traffic stops, the city will no longer get that extra food, and while even lose food for a few turns.
That's for cities inside the units own land. Cities outside the units own land get hit with other/more effects.
Units passing through cities that are not their own spread their culture (In very small amounts) as well as their faith (maybe?) as well as the food their give. The effects only happend if a large number of units passes through.
Well, that's just an Idea I came up with while playing civ

Another Idea I came up with a while ago but didn't post.
Religions:
You know how religions spread city by city, and once a religion gets in a city the only way to get another in is if you send some missionaries in to spread the faith. Well, I have an Idea that 'Might' be more realistic. I think religions should spread just like culture, matter of fact, I think culture should spread religions too.
It's just like culture, a city with said religion will spread that religion like it would it's culture, anything that religion-culture ( in lack of a better name ) spreads over is that religion, so if you build a city within that religion-culture (Note: religion-culture is Not the civ/city's culture) will start out as that religion. Cities get effected just like culture, cities can have religion-culture spread in them, like normal culture does if too close to another city. I.e. Rome has 75% Taoism and 25% Islam . Religion-culture influence is just like if the culture spreads in that city, for every like 10% in the city, whatever the religion does, happends in a way, like for every 10% +1 happy or something, also, 10% makes that city that religion, unless that city has a religion with more then 10%. Also, for every 10% of culture that spreads in your cities, 1% of that cultures religion also spreads over.
Anyways that hows religions spread. Every tile the religion-culture is in, spreads that religion like a city's culture. Missionaries spread 25% of their religion, inquisitions take away 10% of whatever religion(s). A city officially has a religion in it once that religions culture passes 10%, and effects happend every 10% after that (Unhappy for non-state religion. 10% . Whatever). Religion buildings give more religion-culture too spread and overcome the other religions in your lands. (Just like culture and culture building)
I just think that would be a better way to have religions spread then the way they do now. What do you think? I would add more to it, but I just can't think atm (soooo hot...)

Spoiler Reasons for reasons.. lol :

1. Don't understand the 1500 pop. part. Lol and about sending soldiers to do some work, I don't know what I could do unless we can double them as workers. But then, why would we get workers in the first place? Lol we all know that soldiers don't do any constructive work though Kidding, I wouldn't know

Hmm, first off, the reasons things was more of a big joke, but I've been told I'm not the best at telling Jokes
Now, I mean, 1500 pop, if you have ten warriors and a size five city, you'd have more soldiers then citizens and that would just be dumb... Come to think of it, I don't quite understand it myself... *Slaps head* Anyways I meant sending the soldiers to work as in giving "Food" to the city (like I said in 1. which would build up size, which in turn would make buildings come faster and make more money from th ecity

3. Uh... perhaps a little too exacting. Doubt that this will be neccessary, especially remembering that the passage of years is ONLY a timeline for the tech tree so civs will research optics near 1500, education 1700, etc... The movement of the units is independent of this. And the mod would be year by year until the 1900s, and maybe weekly after 2008

The mods gonna be year by year? That's cool, But wouldn't that mean... 6000 turns or more?
But, still, having a unit from 100BC to 1000AD, yeah, younger men...

6. Where is this issue in the game?

Oh, I was just saying you'd pay less for units in reserve. Theres a 'Army Unit cost' and a 'Unit cost'. In reserve units would only take the 'Unit cost' and not the 'Army Cost'

8. lol, where were you going with this?

Oh, just why units in and out of cities would give unhappy

9. I don't get it

Nevermind

Another comment: why should sending out soldiers not reduce city population? This was clearly visible in France under Napoleon, who was quite ambitious with his recruitments

Well, if it reduced city size, I just thought that would be too much. But if you say so, ( I rearly go to war anyways )

Now, here are things things, concerning the points above, that we must decide upon:
1. SHOULD UNITS COST FOOD?
2. KEEP UNIT REPRESENTATION AS IT IS OR MAKE THEM INTO PLATOONS REPRESENTING SEVERAL UNITS?
3. SHOULD WE HAVE TO MAKE/BUY WEAPONS/AMMUNITION, THEN ATTACH IT TO A UNIT?

1: Vote [Yes]
2: Vote [75% Yes/25% No]
3: Vote [Undecided]

Grishnash, admittedly progress is extremely slow

Thats alright, as long as it comes, I was starting to think that you had killed the mod without telling us.

I would love to assemble a team, but really the purpose of that would be to catch up on the bulk work once I have a working mod, as this huge problem is pushing everything else back. What I need more anything is someone, anyone, who can understand code and help me figure out where the problem is, or even just someone (anyone) who can give me suggestions as to what I can do to get closer to finding it, as I am pretty much directionless.

Why won't anyone help!?! *Is yelling*
Oh, and will WHM use scripts, like Rhye? Or no?

Anyways, keep up the good work!!!

 

[moopoo]

I think units shouldn't cost food, should have similar representation as it is now, and should have some kind of weapon difference, if just a difference between bronze swords and iron swords, or different types of rifles (ie musketmen you get with flintlock, then get an extra strength with matchlock, or something - ie a system that doesn't need to be micro managed).

 

[Gooblah]

Religion:

Currently (IIRC) Religion spread is basically random...as long as two cities are connected by trade routes, the religion has a chance of spreading, increased by control of that Shrine.

How about this:
1) Religion v Population. In a given city, there is a population of 10. Two religions are present: Hinduism and Buddhism. About 80% of the city is Hindu, the other 20% Buddhist. These percentages show up below the religion icons in the city screen. How are these percentages determined?
.....a) Length: The longer a religion is in a city, the higher the percentage of people who are of that faith (this could be implemented through a GPP-like system; each religion contributes 1 Religion Point per turn, leading to percentages). A base score of 10 'neutral' points are given to the city at founding, then 2 at every population growth. When any given religion exceeds 500 (?) points, the neutral points are removed, representing a steady decline in atheism due to the prevalence of religion.
.....b) Trade: The cities that the given city trades with are also included. Each trade route contributes 1 point of the largest religion in that city to the other city. Thus, if Rome is connected to Antium, and Hinduism is the largest religion in Rome, per turn one Hindu point is given to Antium. This would simulate the spread of religion by trade (and the amount of trade to the most profitable points). However, there is a catch. The most profitable trade route contributes as many points as there are trade routes (thus, if Rome is the most profitable city to trade with, and Antium also trades with Neapolis, Antium recieves 2 Hindu points). This goes down by 1 point when the routes are ranked by profitability (i.e in the above example, if Neapolis is majority Confucian, it would only contribute 1 Confucian point).
2) Religious Spread: Now, the above mechanics touch spread lightly. Let's delve a bit deeper, shall we?
.....a) Trade: Again, trade occurs most with the places that produce the most money. This is represented by mechanic 1b. However, when the amount of RP for a certain religion exceeds (city's population x 10), that religion officially 'spreads' to the city, making it eligible for Shrine GPT.
.....b) Missionaries: Again, based on RP %. If I tried to spread Judaism to Delhi (which has no Jewish RP), I would only have a 5% chance. However, each 'failure' by a Missionary contributes 2 RP to that city, increasing the likelihood that the city will be more hospitable to a Jewish Missionry the next time. Every time the amount of RP increases by 1%, the rate of success for the Missionary would increase by...i dunno, 10%? However, the rate cannot go below 5% and above 95%.
3) Religious Profits: Hehe, the most fun part.
......a) Shrine: Same as usual.
......b) Miracles: If a Great Prophet passes through a city, there is a chance it will perform a 'miracle'. This involves the RP again. The % of RP is equal to the chance the Great Prophet will produce a miracle of that religion. If such a miracle occurs, a building "Minor Shrine" will be built in that city, producing 2 GPT and 2. The Great Prophet would still exist for usage. This would make them (IMO) more relevant after all the religions have been founded and all shrines have been built.


Whew! That was a long post. The basic mechanic which would work with everything here is RP: Religious Points.

The Religious Point calculation is described in Part 1.

Hope this is interesting (or at the very least, a useful topic starter!).

 

[moopoo]

I agree with pretty much all Gooblah said except 2b. It's annoying enough now when my missionaries fail, I can't imagine my frustrations when they start with a 5% chance

I think his (her? I never know what pronoun to use on the internet) system outlined would be a good basis for religion spread into cities that already have a religion, or the loss of a religion in a given city. This could allow for such real-world occurances as the rise and fall of Zoroastrianism, or the spread of Christianity and Islam, and the un-spread of Hinduism, as well as the (relatively) recent spread of buddhism and taoism into western society.

 

[Gooblah]

Hehehe, thanks, and it's "his".

Moopoo: The Missionaries would start at 5% only if that city is not connected to any city with Judaism as the majority religion. Otherwise, it is by the mechanics outlined above.

Oh right, as for historical spread:

Assign each religion a base RP value; high spread religions like Christianity and Islam would get 5, low-spread religions like Hinduism would get 1. This would increase the chances of high-sp[read religions becoming majorities, increasing spread.

Edit: Does anyone mind if i post this idea in a new thread? If other modders work on it, workload could be take off Kevin. (Note to self: being learning C++)

 

[kevinman4404]

@Gooblah: 1a and 2b (and 3) make the most sense to me. I would actually very much like an increasing missionary chance, as you have suggested, even if the worst case scenario is a 5% chance. But for 1b, it just feels (to me) that it's quite overexaggerated... I just don't see a direct relationship between trade and religion... I understand there'd be a little trade influence, but probably not a ton... if any of you here (including you Gooblah) have a historical fortissimo, could you evaluate and explain this to me? Just, I wanna make sure that it does have a big effect on religion, as we'd might as well streamline if it's effect is too small. 2a depends on our answer to this

(is GPT gold per turn?)

I think his (her? I never know what pronoun to use on the internet)

Lol I've always found it funny calling people by game/chat names, like calling someone "Moopoo"... my name's kinda obvious tho

and of course feel free to thread your idea... (now that I think of it Druids should probably double as missionaries). Regarding learning C++, I just started the 21 day tutorial that was at the top of my google search results, I'm trying to do 1-2 per day, while skipping stuff I know definitely doesn't apply to this. So, remembering that I would eventually have to code all this stuff, see if you can, in your new thread, explain in terms of functions and triggers. This would probably help me a lot, as I've done basic modding using triggers before, and I'm starting to get comfortable with functions (see if you can read up on what this stuff is if you don't already know, it's usually right at the very beginning of a C++/modding tutorial). The more C++ ready it is for me, the better... and though the DLL doesn't seem to make much use of triggers I'd like to

And good to know there are other left wingers in the house lol

Regarding your votes, we seem pretty much undecided on food and munitions trading, representation is leading towards a no (with a 75% vote from me ), but not decided yet.

@Evilthemonkey: I relooked at your weapons stuff- couldn't this all be consolidated? Instead of trading rifles, for example, couldn't you trade a rifleman (assuming we're able to trade units, as in a more advanced mercenary thing)? Instead of turbine engines, trade aircraft? And instead of requiring resources to make weapons, couldn't we just have those resources be a requirement for the units? IE let's say you need iron and gunpowder to produce a rifle which you attach to a rifleman. Couldn't we just make it so that a rifleman requires iron and gunpowder? (plus, if ur gonna give a friend a rifle, you'd might as well just send him a rifleman)

Let me know what you think... that covers both aspects and would be doable with zero modification... this would be so much easier

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Time for some meat and potatoes!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Urgent help needed!

The situation:

As I said I would, I've gradually disabled Rhye's DLL, this time until there's nothing left! So then what I did is I checked XMLs (which were the same as the minimod I made the map in), and python, and they were all the same between the two. I even paralleled the .inis and deleted the .baks, not that I expected the latter to do anything. Then, I compiled an unmodified 3.17 DLL and replaced Rhye's DLL with this. Still wouldn't work. Then I took out the DLL :/ STILL not working. (The artwork is the same) What I have now are two EXACTLY IDENTICAL MODS, with different names, and in one my map works, in one it doesn't! The map is identical and has no modpath specified.

In the one that's having problems, it finishes loading, changes to a black backgound, cursor changes a couple times, then some what i call "black blinking" signalling a CTD. So this time it's not in the middle of the loading but after. I don't hear music/ambient sounds from the map in the non-working mod.

I just knew that there was some stupid problem making an utter waste of my time

Please let me know if you know why this identical map won't work in both identical mods.

I'll see about making another thread if I don't find the answer

*takes a deep breath
"whew"

I think you can tell I'm a little hyper now... lol... you need lots of energy to write this much at 4 am.

Kevin

 

[moopoo]

Random things off the top of my head that i'm sure you've thought of:

1) are you sure the maps are identical
2) a problem with folder structure
3) A hidden file that's screwing it up
4) perhaps the maps shouldn't be identical
5) something I read alot about 'clearing the cache' (I'm not actually sure what that means)
6)...

Nope, that's all I got for now.

 

[Gooblah]

Kevin:

There isn't a direct relationship between amount of trade and religious spread. However, there is a correlation. People will tend to trade at areas where it is most profitable. Then, they will come back from the profitable city to their hometown, spreading ideas and culture from the city they traded in. A perfect example of this is the Silk Road. Ideas and inventions like gunpowder weren't the point of the trade route. Instead, the ideas and inventions came back along the route through the tales and stories and observations of the traders. This occurred with religion as well; when it wasn't spread by conquest, it was spread along trade routes. When St Peter went to Rome, it was along a profitable trade route. When he shared the story of Christ there, traders who heard it went along their normal trade routes (profitable for them) and probably shared the story, spreading the ideas some more.

Thus, I used 1b, however exaggerated, to show how this would work. To reduce the exaggeration, the amount of RPT (religious points per turn) provided could be reduced to .5 or something.

And yes, GPT is gold per turn.

 

[Grishnash]

History is the sum total of things that could have been avoided. - Konrad Adenauer

So, just checking in and making sure this mod doesn't get forgotten. Because the only thing worse then being talked about, is not being talked about. Or, and will it use scripts?

 

[moopoo]

you mean python scripts, Grishnash? That would be a yes, unless my concept of Civ 4 modding is WAY off base.

 

[Grishnash]

I mean like in the RtW, and RFC... Civilization births, new world explorers, the black death, civil-wars, wonders more likely to be built by their historic civs... Stuff like that...

People are trapped in history and history is trapped in them. -
James A. Baldwin

 

[moopoo]

well, Stability for one is controlled (at least partially) by Python, isn't it? and That would have to be a part of a mod of this type

 

[kevinman4404]

lol lost a bit of productivity... keyboard broke... using virtual keyboard for all my typing lol

r u asking for what scripts it borrows? the answer is... lots... biggest of which is rfcs rising n dying of civs, barb system, citynames, settlermaps, etc

and its not (n prolly neva will b) forgotten, but ill admit my productivity has fluctuated a lot recently. Me gtting risenfall/settlermaps to work will open this project right up... im totally disregarding any deadlines/ETA, but i will someday hav this out n matter what (lol b4 civ5 is my goal). I will release the mod way b4 it is done tho so noone gets too bored/dbtful, just need min. functionality 1st

at this pt. lets pause any detail-idealization (unless i get bored n decide to wrk on somthin else, like the civs, ill b needin input on that soon)

finally, i may add a forum @civjunction, thanks niknacks! but updates will continue here as usual

i plan to release my unusably lg. mp b4 summers out
n im gunna print out some v.basic lessons to read @ wrk

Kevin

 

[moopoo]

I was wondering why your english seemed so broken, then I reread the first sentence

 

[Gooblah]

Hmmz.

I started making a Minoan Civilization. However, information in regards to their leaders is lacking, so I went with King Minos. If you wish to see it, let me know.

 

[Grishnash]

Hmmm....

African Civs:

Abyssinia/Ethiopia
Adal
Aksumite Kingdom

I was thinking, shouldn't it be

D'mt Kingdom/Aksumite Kingdom/Ethiopia

?
That might be more historical and better for gameplay.

 

[moopoo]

You really better Aksum-body. Nubia is in that same location too, isn't it? what about them? or are they already covered up there?

 

[Grishnash]

You really better Aksum-body.

lol lol That was sooooo funny!!!

Nubia is in that same location too, isn't it? what about them? or are they already covered up there?

No, Nubia is not in the same area, however the Aksumite Kingdom did rule over Nubia at some point in time, but they also ruled over parts of south Arabia.
And the D'mt Kingdom/Aksumite Kingdom/Ethiopia are REALLY in the same place. with the same people and same culture and really, no one knows if they really were the same kingdoms or not, they think they very much can be. I think they were. So, it's not the same as England and Scotland which really were two kingdoms... So, yeah..

Now, on to Algeria, if you may...

African Civs:

Abyssinia/Ethiopia
Adal
Aksumite Kingdom
Algiers/Algeria

I'm thinking that it should be more like this:
Berbers/Numidia/Algeria(modern-day)
Eh? Might be more historical, IMO...

And I have a problem with:

Egyptian/Mamluk Empire

The Egyptian Empire and the Mamluks were not the same, not even the same PEOPLE! The Egyptians were Black Africans(This information seems to be lacking in this community), you know, tall DARK and handsome. Where as the Mamluks were Arabians who took over Egypt, not so tall, dark or handsome... So having the Egyptian Empire 'Become' the Mamluks, is kind of like having Aztec 'become' Mexico... Just does not fit...

 

[Gooblah]

Nubia was in Sudan, right?

 

[Grishnash]

Nubia was in Sudan, right?

Yeah, and parts of Southen Egypt.

Aro Confederacy should start out as the Arochukwu Kingdom and then become the Aro Confederacy.
Arochukwu Kingdom/Aro Confederacy

And is Dahomey going to be added? Modern-Day Benin?
It is not to be confused with the Kingdom of Benin.

Also, about that Ghana, I take it that it's the old Ghana Empire and not the Modern Nation, so I think maybe you should rename it to Wagadou Empire, to not confuse people. The Modern-Day Ghana is not the old Kingdom, not even in the same place.

@Kevinman4404: Are the "Modern" African nations (Zimbabwe, South Africa, Sudan, etc...) Representing the nations when they were first created or when they got their Independence?