World History Mod development thread

@Kevinman4404

I've been dwelling on the matter of weapons trading and production for a while now. For my money implimenting my idea would be dependant on two technical concerns: quantitative resources and resource conversion. If they could be implimented properly then weapon factories would both be possible and make the mod more historically accurate (along with all other factory types which I for one would like to see working).

If that could be made to work, we could then redo unit production in quite a fundamental way. Most military units could then be a collection of hardware (weapons, mounts etc.) and manpower (another quantitative resource that is produced by city population) with a very low hammer cost/production time (that is for pre modern land units, ships, planes and mechanised units would take much longer).

And i realise that this is all 'detail-idealization' but its taken me a while to work some of this through and if I don't make a point of noting it down I'll forget it so apologies for that.
 
Tripoli/Libya
Tunisia
Yeah, these weren't even civilizations to my knowledge... So maybe they should just be thrown in with
Berbers/Numidia/Algeria(modern-day)
Or Libya could be a modern-civ, but aren't Tripoli and Tunisia just cities?
 
Tripoli and Tunisia are the capitals of Libya..and Tunisia IIRC. They're not Civilizations.
 
Tripoli and Tunisia are the capitals of Libya..and Tunisia IIRC. They're not Civilizations.

The United State's career as an imperialist power began with a war against Tripoli and Tunis (the Barbary Wars). They were at the time semi-independent Ottoman states (also Algiers) notorious for piracy in the Mediterranean.
 
Technology:

Well, I've been thinking hard. Kevin, if you can hear me, please listen...;)

Okay, so Kevin proposed different techtrees for each Civilization. Screw that. A lot of work for little payoff (if I get the Aztecs to survive Cortes, then what?). So I propose the mega-tree. Every single technology will be in this tree. However, certain technologies will be limited to certain Civilizations, and certain technologies will ONLY give bonuses to certain Civilizations. For example, the technology Igloo Construction will be accessible to all, but will only give a building and culture to the Inuit. The technology Cuneiform would be accessible ONLY to Mesopotamian societies.

Techs that aren't region or culture-specific (i.e Fission, Agriculture, etc) would be accessible to all and give universal benefits.

If possible (and this would require a TON of work), add a technology "blacklist' to each Civilization. These would be technologies whose research times would lengthen (for example, Agriculture for the Polynesians) due to their historical irrelevance.
 
It's already possible - there's a section in the Civilization XML to disable technologies for a specific civ. And why not save some work and instead of a tech giving certain benefits to only some civs and just disable it for other civs instead?

Kevin - have you seen RFC optimized? It replaces the turples used for city names with dictionaries and should make it easier to make RFC work with your map (the turples contained a spot for every plot on the map, even if it had no city name for that civ and even if it was impossible to found a city on the plot).
 
Eh, I have no comment to make on not replying for so long, lol... I have been busy though

@Deanej, that sounds awesome, however the problem, I think me and Rhye agreed, was with C++. But it does sound useful, it's not like I've done all the city-name-plot thingies, I just left them blank or something temporarily

I seem to remember Tripoli and Libya being alternate names for eachother, even though Tripoli later became the capital. This was in some history game, perhaps Europa U.?

I don't know what Tunisia is doing there, unless I meant Carthage... after I post this I'll go back and check

mind u, maybe I'm just forgetting what I may have found out earlier, Tailless Kangaroo seems to be onto something, even though it doesn't seem to be what I found... I will play 5 minutes of EU3 and see if they're simply african civs i burrowed from it

@ETM I understand lol, not many people have the C++ power to help with what I need to fix... anyways, this sounds a bit easier than our earlier ideas, but this will obv. depend on how far resource quantitization has been developped by the people working on it. Manpower seems like a good simplification of my recruiting population cost

Numidia is sort of blended with Algeria, and Berbers, being a tribe, probably are too. But if they're not I'll represent them as nomads

I will also check EU3 for Dahomey, as maybe that will remind me of why I decided to disclude it, if that's indeed what i decided

Do you really think Benin has the power to be a modern civ? If so, certainly not a present day modern civ, but if it's more like early 1900s, perhaps it can just be blended with the old Benin. Mind you, I don't know much about Benin's history

As for Axum, I may be 100% wrong, but I think of Axum as this little christian trading empire that was eventually destroyed, and Abysinnia/Ethiopia (which I know are the same) as the African Christian superpower. Again, I think Axum eventually ended its life as a civ, making it easy to make them 2 seperate civs

Egypt/Mamluk: Yes, they will perhaps be seperate, maybe Egypt being taken over by Muslims (whether Arabia or a seperate muslim civ i dont yet know),but this might neccessite a modern Egyptian civ, which is a downside

And Jeleen, you are totally right, but if they showed up in my civ list, it's caz they were the old names for a civilization. Thus I think Tunis was a civ and Tripoli was a civ where libya is now.

Finally, as for tech trees and stuff, I doubt it would be much of a problem for me to do multiple tech trees. I really don't have a clue how long it would take. Mind you I'm a lot faster at more interesting stuff liek this than troubleshooting code problems like I am now lol

Just one question about that, in the xml, can you disable it for more than one civ? You guys kinda make it sound like it's only one, but I doubt thats what u mean

blacklisting honestly seems pretty difficult

I'll make that forum tonight; please try to stick to code help/ideas for the troubleshooting part of this project, in that forum; other ideas are still more than welcome here, but I'm gunan devote most of my time to troubleshooting. However, I might start making civs or at least proper lists for the beginning of this thread. And I have to work on filling in the missing resources in my map. It will be available in a few weeks.

@indian... lol you can effectively ignore any release dates, I really have no clue when it'll be done.

@moopoo: that aksum thing was pretty genius lol

Thanks again Deanej for letting me kno that

Kevin
 
I will also check EU3 for Dahomey, as maybe that will remind me of why I decided to disclude it, if that's indeed what i decided

Do you really think Benin has the power to be a modern civ? If so, certainly not a present day modern civ, but if it's more like early 1900s, perhaps it can just be blended with the old Benin. Mind you, I don't know much about Benin's history

As for Axum, I may be 100% wrong, but I think of Axum as this little christian trading empire that was eventually destroyed, and Abysinnia/Ethiopia (which I know are the same) as the African Christian superpower. Again, I think Axum eventually ended its life as a civ, making it easy to make them 2 seperate civs

Egypt/Mamluk: Yes, they will perhaps be seperate, maybe Egypt being taken over by Muslims (whether Arabia or a seperate muslim civ i dont yet know),but this might neccessite a modern Egyptian civ, which is a downside

Dahomey/Benin. The Dahomey Kingdom was renamed to Benin in 1975(i think). The Two are kinda the same. The Benin Kingdon has nothing to do with them.

Axsum, little? I don't think so (Not for the time it was in) Axsum fell into a dark age, where it lost contact with Europe, a few years later it reappeared as Ethiopia. FWIK: D'mt Kingdom fell into a Civil-War, one of the kingdoms that split, Aksum, managed to reunite the Kingdom and expand and become great. Sometime later they fell into a Dark Age where contact with Europe was lost. Sometime later "a civilization" reappeared there calling itself the Ethiopian Kingdom, many believe them to be the same.

Yay! I really thought that Egypt/Mamluk was not a good idea.

Repeat question:
@Kevinman4404: Are the "Modern" African nations (Zimbabwe, South Africa, Sudan, etc...) Representing the nations when they were first created or when they got their Independence?


I was going to work on maybe laying down UHV, UP, UU, UB, Misc info, for the African civs(If you want?) but first that ^ question needs to be replied to and maybe the list needs to be sorted out... So, if you want I could do that for you, you know just give maybe some ideas as to what their U's could be. :p

Keep up the good work!
 
I remember reading up about Axum, where a couple of their key cities were invaded, we could easily use this as end of Axum/beginning of Ethiopia

For modern nations, it is of course how they are today, so I'm guessing that would be independence (the few African countries that play well on an international scale).

I would appreciate that, and I'll try to have a complete civ list complete with leaders/pic of leader and some UHVs (have some already) UP (will prolly become traits), UB and UUs.

I'm actually starting to think it doesn't matter if I get it to work just yet, other stuff can still be worked on and we'll probably go thru many patches and RFC updates before I get it to work. Plus now that school's started learning C++ is gonna be harder. So I guess we can work away at these other things, as long as I am actually making progress and not just idealizing things.

Actually gonna put up the new forum Friday evening. I will post a link then

And I still have to check EU3 for what African countries they include, I'll post them here and eliminate any that are a little sketchy

Kevin
 
Dahomey will evolve into the older Benin

Bamana Empire and Segu are confirmed

Adal I am still not sure about

Adding Crimea, Timurids, and maybe the two Koyunlu kingdoms, and maybe candar


I had started adding photos and data to my civs list, however I didn't know you could have a maximum 30 image; I'm gonna have to figure out another way of doing this.

The forum for the mod is now up, as soon as I have done the neccessary few posts I will provide a link to it.

Kevin
 
Alright, well, heres what I got so for. I'm still working on it but I thought I'll post this... Hmmm, I didn't think to do leaders, oh well, I might later on.

This is just a small list of UUs for the African Civilizations, with a little info about the U. At the moment I'm just working on Modern Nations (which is hard, just what is Unique in todays world?). This isn't the list of what will be in, just a little something to give KMan a ballpark idea as to what their Uniques can be... :)

I/P = In Progress: I'm still working on/coming up with whatever.
UC = Under Consideration: I'm not 100% sure they'll stay, It might change if it turns out to be inappropriate or something of greater value comes up.

Spoiler :
The list has been moved to The World History Forum. And all updates will be posted there. Sorry for any inconvenience.


If it seems that their are a whole lot of "No foreign cultures" it's because those nations are(or would be better if they) trying to reduce foreign influence and cultivate native cultures. As well as trying to get natives to play bigger roles in their nation. I.e. Zimbabwe as trying to give more land to natives over foreigners and other things. South Africa is trying to get more natives into politics and business, etc... So, sorry about that and if I find UHVs of greater value I'll add them so that there isn't as much "No foreign cultures", 'cuz too much of the same ain't fun, right?

PS: Sorry for the slow progress, I'm busier then I thought I would be. :(

PSS: Please tell me if the UHVs are too easy, I can't be sure... And anything else you would like to question, please go right ahead. :D
 
The efficiency of the Talking drum system could translate to lower maintenance cost for city-distance-from-capital, or increased trade.

Very impressive, Grishnash :)
 
The efficiency of the Talking drum system could translate to lower maintenance cost for city-distance-from-capital, or increased trade.

Very impressive, Grishnash :)

Thank you:D and that seems like a good idea for the Talking Drums, thanks :p

@ Kao'chai: Thanks ;):):D
 
Grishnash, I'm quite amazed at what you know... where did you learn or research all this? Anyways amazing job so far!

I am especially eager to see what you come up with for non-modern African civs (if you decide you want to do them). Though you did Ashanti, which I don't consider fully modern (at least, it started further back).

It's actually a lot of interesting stuff, such as the talking drums and aradu.


Yes, I have made a few minor adjustments, they may be seen in the new forum, where I now have a very detailed civ list/encyclopedia. Well it doesn't have background information but it has essential stuff. It is now updated to include your knowledge and any adjustments. Let me know what you think.

A couple were easy, and a couple were hard (UHVs). For example, "change to Universal Suffrace" would be the obviously easy one. I combined it with the UHV before it.

As for how this will all work, you can have unlimited UUs (the more, the better), UBs, and UPs, though try not to give too many UPs if you give more than one. Up to 3 UHVs preferred, as you have done. But it can be less. There can also be no UU or UB if and only if absolutely noone can find anything.

What I would also like to ask of you is to check the civs I have included and see if any should be added/deleted. I would like to note that Africa has, I think, the longest list of civs... (EDIT: Sorry, I exaggerated, but still...) it needs to be toned down, and if you feel any aren't completely neccessary, I'd appreciate a request to delete some. Also, not being that informed on Africa, my list was based on my guess (for modern nations) on which nations are most powerful/important. It's probably close but not right on, so please let me know what you think. Mauritania was on it, but is temporarily deleted unless you decide it should return to the list.

Again, there are a HUGE number of civs, more than I thought, with a few more to come. Please give suggestions on civs to delete, if you have any, anyone. It is good that I am stuck on the RFC engine because noone could possibly run this with so many civs at once (I'm guessing it could reach 150 civs at once in modern times, depending on how well they survive). Modern times will pose a HUGE challenge. Combine or delete civs where neccessary please. I want an absolute max 50 civs at any one time.

I also am wanting a vote on the inclusion/exclusion of a few civs. This can be found on the civ-list thread.

Below is a link to the new forum. I will gradually wean off this forum and only provide progress updates here. It is far more organized for me to have several threads. This is all quite jumbled, in this thread. My apologies if you have to register to reply, I don't remember how it worked, but again, at least it's a LOT more organized for me.

You can find what I talked about above in the "civs" thread.

CLICK HERE FOR WORLD HISTORY FORUM

@moopoo- blogspot would be good only for providing progress updates, I am thinking. And a site would be a little too much work, not to mention I don't like most free websites.

EDIT: I've also done 30 flags :) and the link is also in the first post now.

Kevin
 
...Just FYI, I've successfully run a game with 75 civilizations on a Gigantic map (XXL Mod), though you could only fit each civ with very few cities (only 1 for some civs) on that map size. I do have an above average computer at the moment though:

OS: Windows Vista 64 Ultimate SP1
Video Card: GeForce 9800GX2 1GB
CPU: AMD Phenom 9850 Quad-core 2.5Ghz
Mem: 8GB RAM

I'd imagine in a few years, this type of computer will become more typical.
 
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