World History Mod development thread

[kevinman4404]

@Grishnash: LOL is that an actual quote?

I'm sorry more progress hasn't been made- I have not been able to open the map. I am getting a variety of errors, and I haven't even made any changes since my last post in the other thread. Although I don't think this will be a serious problem, it may take a while to find out what's wrong and fix it.

EDIT: the problem is fixed; the volcano graphic I recently put in (and forgot about) was creating problems. So I got it working and the map open, and then I had to go to work, and at some point it minimized (and had to close, because I have mem. saver on), and now whenever I try opening the map, it starts off automatically defeated. This may be able to be fixed by restarting my computer. However, I would really appreciate it if someone could shed light on this. This is a massive obstacle to having full productivity.

Kevin

 

[moopoo]

errr, you could try putting a settler in for whatever player you're getting into it as.

 

[Grishnash]

It's the quote from the starbucks ad, I just changed some words ;p !
Sorry I haven't been updating my civs list but things have been busy!!!
Oh, well...
Good luck!

May I suggest continental goals? Like a UHV but the same for every civilization starting on that continent? Just an idea
And I'm gonna have to say the Zulu's UP should also gave plus one strength.
Oh, heck! One last question, If let's say, I was playing the Kingdom of Kongo and I survived till 1960, would Congo spawn still? Like in RFC? Because, really, it can't because it was a european colony, and thus, no europeans, no Congo.

And may I suggest the Sao Civilization?


- Good Luck!

 

[kevinman4404]

The problem was fixed by a computer restart. How absolutely strange.

Not a problem, I have been either stuck with problems or busy, and I have attended to other matters first (so I haven't even updated the African civs). I will have the traits list posted tommorow (although I really don't think I got everything). I will also do some more civ-work and do some UP/Hist. Goal planning.

The Sao civilization seems a little underinfluential; when I read about it it just kind of seemed to exist for a while and then get absorbed. Is this the civ in Cameroon, and what role do you feel it played in Africa? Remember, I must put some sort of limit as to the number of civs, and I've never heard of Sao before. I'm fine with including it, but I would need to know why it is more important than a lot of my non-inclusions.

With the Kongo question, that depends. Did Congo at all stem from Kongo (I seem to remember it didn't). If it did in any way, Congo could possibly seemlessly change to Kongo, with a massive spurt of instability; otherwise, I would need your suggestion as to what would happen. One way you have too many civs appearing and without reason, and the other way, you can perhaps overalter history.

I really wish I could use the EU3 system for that problem. Civs rise mainly through instability, though a few undergo sudden changes (England->Great Britain), perhaps through events. There are also events which may help fuel instability, nationalism, etc. This at least is how EU3 works, and it does a good job of it.

Kevin

 

[Grishnash]

Hmm.. Will, I just thought the Sao civ was good because of where it was, it not much civs there, but it doesn't have to be in However, the Kongo/Congo thing... Kongo is an African Empire, which was destroyed by Europeans. The Congo was a European colony and had nothing to do with Kongo changing. So, that's that, I'll let you decide the rest

 

[kevinman4404]

I wasn't really thinking when I asked that; I remember Kongo was an African civ and Congo is a country resulting from colonial rule. Since they're unrelated it would just appear, but since there is overlap in the land, they'd probably fight it out. Like in RFC, soldiers would rise up against Kongo and Great Britain and fight for Congo until peace is made or all of Kongo is conquered, as it was historically. It should work well.

UPDATE:

Most of the North and American leaderheads are complete (well, chosen, since I didn't make any of them). You may view all of them combined in the Civs subforum of the CivJunction forum (the main forum for this mod). Please let me know if you would like any changes.

For those that have not visited the proper thread, here is the link:
http://civjunction.freeforums.org/civs-t163.html
They can be found near the bottom of the page, just below the flags.

NOTES:
-The leaderhead for Tupi is actually the leaderhead for the Iroquois. Tupi has a leaderhead but I screwed that up, he will be included shortly.
-The leaderhead for the Toltecs is incorrectly labelled, it is actually for the Zapotecs.
-Agueyabana of Arawak is actually Coloradas of the Apache. I accidentally forgot Agueyebana, and he will be added tommorow.
-Sorry that Pacal II is stretched; we all know what he looks like anyways
-The missing Agueyebana (Arawak) will be added along with a new civ tommorow
I SCREWED UP PART OF IT AND WILL BE FIXING IT SHORTLY

While working on the leaderheads I have obviously added a few civs, and consequently the flags are out of date. These will be updated, but not in the near future, as I will likely have to invent some flags.

Kevin

 

[moopoo]

Perhaps you should make it so that congo only appears if an appropriate european civ colonises (and liberates?) in the area.

 

[Grishnash]

Okay, I think that maybe all colonies should require European settlements like the United States they should not be able to spawn unless there is a European presence

 

[kevinman4404]

Both of what you two said (Moopoo and Grishnash) will apply, if possible. This is how EU3 works.

All North America civs are now decided upon, as well as their leaders. They are viewable in the main thread. Almost every leaderhead is displayed. Every flag is up too. So 32 flags (which include some I made up) and almost 32 leaderheads. There are also no errors now. Please comment if you have one in mind.

Tonight I'm free and will list the traits that come to my mind and update my African civs with Grishnash's stuff.

Kevin

 

[Krug]

Wow, the Goals of this Mod are something I've always dreamed of in Civilization, mind if I help?

Now some Ideas for the Zapotec and Mixtec Nations:

ZAPOTEC EMPIRE
Leader: Cociyoeza
Personality:Imperialistic/Spiritual(?)
UU1:Lightning Warrior (Replaces Axeman), +50% vs. Melee Units , Starts with Guerilla I, Does not require Copper or Iron
UB1:Cocijo Altar,(Replaces Monument),+1 Food on all adjacent tiles along with the Culture Boost. (Cocijo is the main Deity of the Zapotec Religion, he is said to control the rains.)
UP1:Riches(?) (Starts off with a 20% increase in Treasury)
UHV1:Have one city flip to your side by 1000 AD (The Zapotec had a lot of influence, their Alphabet is the basis for all other MesoAmerican Nations to come, and they traded...a lot with the surrounding cultures.)
UHV2: Dominate Entire Oaxaca Region by 200 AD
UHV3: Defensive Pact with Mixtec by 1200 AD
MIXTEC EMPIRE
Leader: Jaguar Claw
Personality:Aggressive/Expansive
UU1:Eagle Warrior, (Replaces Spearman), +100% Against Mounted Units, +15% when attacking Cities.
UB1:?
UP1:?
UHV1:No outside influences in Mixtec lands until 1300 A.D.(?) (1300 AD is when the Aztecs arrived.)
UHV 2 and 3:?
-----------------------------------
Well, that's my two cents.

 

[moopoo]

If Cocijo was said to control the rains, would it perhaps be more appropriate that a Cocijo altar gave some kind of food bonus?

 

[Krug]

Yeah, I guess, I just wanted something that showed the Zapotec's superior Wealth to most countries in the region. It's now +1 Food in every adjacent Tile.

I saw what kevinman4404 put in the Civ thread on the Zapotecs, yes, the Power of Sabotage is a bit out there, but I was hard pressed to find a power, maybe because now the Cocijo Altar isn't representing wealth, maybe the power can...I just need a good number for the increase in gold...say 20%? Other things have been changed as well.

Next up...the Olmec and the Maya!

OLMEC EMPIRE
Leader: Po Ngbe
Personality:Spiritual/Creative
UU1:Black Axe,(Replaces Axeman), +65% Against Melee Units (Obsidian was a very Sharp stone, and was the Pinnacle Mineral of Stone Tools.)
UB1:Stone Head (Replaces Monument), +2 Culture
UP1ower of Stone (All Units that would normally require Copper or Iron can be Built with Stone Instead...Maybe a bit over powered, I don't know, but its realistic for the Olmec)
UHV1: (I'm open to suggestions on this one, it should have something to do with Culture, as almost all Olmec Artwork is considered a Masterpiece.)
UHV2 and 3:?
Credit goes to the Civ Gold team for the Olmec UU, UB, and Leader Traits. I made the Power and UHV though.

MAYAN EMPIRE
Leader: Pacal II
Personality: Expansive/Financial
UU1: Holkan
UB1: Ball Court
UP1ower of Astronomy, -40% Reseearch Cost until the End of the Middle Ages.
UHV1: Discover Calendar by 600 AD
UHV2:Build Chichen Itza by 900 AD
UHV3:Never lose a city until 1745

Mayan UHVs and Power taken from Rhyes and Fall of Civilization.

EDIT1:Just made a Mixtec Flag, Personally, I think its quite good:
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/1796/mixtecflaggj5.png
The Mixtec Eagle Head is from this image:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Oaxaca_ocho_venado.png

 

[kevinman4404]

Grishnash, I have updated my African civ list. I have also put info on traits in your thread.

Krug- thank you for the offer and for the info! I have updated to include your information (just Zapotec and Mixtec, I didn't see the other two until now)

I'd also like to point out that I will be including Toltec, even though I did not post it in the flags, leaderheads or civ list.

Thank you, and even if you just hang around and offer suggestions it would be much appreciated, as I need some interest to keep it alive.

I will now be working on the map for a while, with minor updates to the civ list. I plan on finishing the map with the missing resources and releasing it in case someone finds a use in the meantime for it.

Kevin

 

[Krug]

Grishnash, I have updated my African civ list. I have also put info on traits in your thread.

Krug- thank you for the offer and for the info! I have updated to include your information (just Zapotec and Mixtec, I didn't see the other two until now)

I'd also like to point out that I will be including Toltec, even though I did not post it in the flags, leaderheads or civ list.

Thank you, and even if you just hang around and offer suggestions it would be much appreciated, as I need some interest to keep it alive.

I will now be working on the map for a while, with minor updates to the civ list. I plan on finishing the map with the missing resources and releasing it in case someone finds a use in the meantime for it.

Kevin

I saw that you updated and edited the Zapotec UHVs and Trait.

I'm a History know it all, so I'll be happy to help on Civilization imput. Also I can write Civlopedia Articles once that point is reached.

TOLTEC EMPIRE
Leader:Ce Acatl Topiltzn
Personality:Spiritual/Agressive
UU1:Coyote Warrior (Replaces Swordsman), Does not require Copper or Iron, Ignores Terrain Movement Costs, +10% City Attack
UB1:Venus Temple,(Replaces Monument), +1 Culture, New Units Receive +3 EXP
UP1ower of Quetzacoatl, All Military Units built start with City Raider I
UHV1:Conquer at least one City from each surrounding Civilization.(The Toltecs always were at war, and often were brewing plans for conquest.)
UHV2:Found a Religion by 1000 A.D. (The Toltecs founded the Aztec, Zapotec, Mixtec and Mayan Religion)
UHV3:?
----------------------
The Toltec were EXTREMELY militaristic, so with all these military gains, you can't really say their Military ranking is...2.

 

[kevinman4404]

Sorry, it looks like I missed Zapotec's traits. For its UP, for some reason I have sabotage down. Is that what you had written before? Anyways for your edited UP, what do you mean by start off with a 20% increase in treasury? Does this mean, if normally you start off with 100 gold, Zapotec starts off with 120? Or does it mean you get 20% higher income?

Toltec: How would UHV2 work? Chances are the only religions left unfounded would be stuff like Zen Buddhism, Protestantism and that hollywood alien religion (which I may or may not include for fun) at 1000AD. Some civs, mostly native ones, will start with animism/shamanism/paganism etc. However, I never planned to make it so you can found one of those. Should I make a Mesoamerican pagan foundable religion? How would you like me to do this goal?

As for the rating, it's all relative by country, not relative to itself. So even though its best feature may have been its military, it may still be a weak civ from the world's perspective. Aztec I believe was a 3. Was Toltec it's military equal? If it is, then I can give it a 3.

Also, awesome flag! You can tell which ones are my flags, they look pretty fake, though the symbolism is good. Yours is very nice. I will include it next time I update the flags. However, there's not much to update for them yet, so it may be a while. I did save the image though.

Let me know when/if you come up with a UB for Toltec. Amazing work so far! (I hope you didn't know the Toltec leader off the top of your head... that's pretty amazing)

Finally, just note that there are no required numbers. Please use as many traits as you feel describe a civ. So if Toltec is spiritual (and it probably is), feel free to include that too. Do not be afraid of overlap (several civs having similar or same traits). Also you may have more than one power (as well as pretty much anything).

Kevin

 

[Krug]

Sorry, it looks like I missed Zapotec's traits. For its UP, for some reason I have sabotage down. Is that what you had written before? Anyways for your edited UP, what do you mean by start off with a 20% increase in treasury? Does this mean, if normally you start off with 100 gold, Zapotec starts off with 120? Or does it mean you get 20% higher income?

Yes, I had Sabotage before, I was a bit weary on that one's effect, so I took it out for Riches. I meant 20% Higher Income as well.

Toltec: How would UHV2 work? Chances are the only religions left unfounded would be stuff like Zen Buddhism, Protestantism and that hollywood alien religion (which I may or may not include for fun) at 1000AD. Some civs, mostly native ones, will start with animism/shamanism/paganism etc. However, I never planned to make it so you can found one of those. Should I make a Mesoamerican pagan foundable religion? How would you like me to do this goal?

I was hoping Mesoamerican Paganism would be foundable, as limited to one part of the world as it was, it was very influential and was a defining aspect of that culture.

As for the rating, it's all relative by country, not relative to itself. So even though its best feature may have been its military, it may still be a weak civ from the world's perspective. Aztec I believe was a 3. Was Toltec it's military equal? If it is, then I can give it a 3.

Also, awesome flag! You can tell which ones are my flags, they look pretty fake, though the symbolism is good. Yours is very nice. I will include it next time I update the flags. However, there's not much to update for them yet, so it may be a while. I did save the image though.

Thanks about the flag, and I would give the Toltec a 2.5, not a two, but not as high as the Aztecs.

Let me know when/if you come up with a UB for Toltec. Amazing work so far! (I hope you didn't know the Toltec leader off the top of your head... that's pretty amazing)

I know him from repeated plays of Civ Gold, so I know the last name from seeing it so much in the political menu. The First Part I had to look up, I forgot to give credit to Civ Gold for The Toltec Leader and UU Name/UB. So really, don't think it was me. Oh yeah and the Toltec UB was:

Venus Temple,(Replaces Monument), +1 Culture, New Units Receive +3 EXP

Finally, just note that there are no required numbers. Please use as many traits as you feel describe a civ. So if Toltec is spiritual (and it probably is), feel free to include that too. Do not be afraid of overlap (several civs having similar or same traits). Also you may have more than one power (as well as pretty much anything).

Cool, Okay then:
Leader:Ce Acatl Topiltzn
Personality:Spiritual/Agressive/Imperialistic/Expansive/Extremeist

Leader: Po Ngbe
Personality:Spiritual/Creative/Organized/Cultural/Traditional

Leader: Cociyoeza
Personality:Imperialistic/Spiritual/Agressive/Exploitive
----------------------------------------------
Bout Time I got to the Aztecs...


AZTEC EMPIRE
Leader: Montezuma
Personality: Aggressive, Spiritual, Innovative
UU1: Jaguar
UB1:Sacraficial Altar
UP1ower of Sacrafice (New Worker is gained each time a city is conquered)
UHV1:Make sure all Surrounding Cultures have 1-2 Cities at the most at any given time.
UHV2:Elimanate a Civilization by 1492 A.D.
UHV3:?
Rating: 3/3/2 [3]

 

[kevinman4404]

Sorry, I meant the UB for the Mixtecs, as with his UP.

Everything is now fully updated (most was updated earlier but I had forgotten to press submit). There are comments next to some.

And for everyone to know here is the North/South American wishlist:

~A mesoamerican leaderhead for Olmecs
~A native leaderhead for Huron
~A leaderhead for Ramon Castilla (someone who looks like him who I haven't used... don't be annoyed if I am already planning on using that leaderhead for a different civ)

Kevin

 

[Krug]

Sorry, I meant the UB for the Mixtecs, as with his UP.

Everything is now fully updated (most was updated earlier but I had forgotten to press submit). There are comments next to some.

And for everyone to know here is the North/South American wishlist:

~A mesoamerican leaderhead for Olmecs
~A native leaderhead for Huron
~A leaderhead for Ramon Castilla (someone who looks like him who I haven't used... don't be annoyed if I am already planning on using that leaderhead for a different civ)

Kevin

I have an Olmec Leaderhead, just hold on and I'll get it up. Currently, I'm working on ideas for the Cherokee. Any suggestions are appriciated.


Info on the Mixtec is quite scarce as well.

Zapotec UHV Update:
UHV1:Have one city flip to your side by 1000 AD (The Zapotec had a lot of influence, their Alphabet is the basis for all other MesoAmerican Nations to come, and they traded...a lot with the surrounding cultures.)
UHV2: Dominate Entire Oaxaca Region by 200 AD
UHV3: Defensive Pact with Mixtec by 1200 AD

 

[kevinman4404]

Updated, and got the pm. It turns out civ gold has REALLY expanded since I last burrowed their LH images... this will fill almost all future gaps, and it fills the current ones.

Is it really possible that the Olmec King's hair is done up in that Mayan circlet thing and loose at the same time? I'll leave it up to you which leaderhead to choose- either that one or one of the more aztec-like ones. However, I have a feeling the Olmecs did look quite different from the Aztecs.

Finished images of N/S American leaderheads and flags will be posted soon.

Europe is soon to be under way, though I also need to work on the map, and wintermod/summermod, and adaptation.

Thanks
Kevin

 

[Krug]

I'll help with Europe once I finish N/S American Uniques.

Just got a brilliant idea too. How about Unique Effects for religions, right now nothing is really separating one from the other besides names. So how about things like:

Roman Catholic Christianity:Missionaries never fail when spreading faith in a city.
Islam:Conquered Cities automatically have Islam as a religion

Ect, Ect...

I say go with the Default Olmec leaderhead, the Aztecs were many generations apart from the Olmecs...

CHEROKEE NATIVES
Leader: Oconostota
Personalityrotective/Traditional/Spiritual
UU1:Ayastigi (Replaces Warrior), +25% against Melee Units
UB1: Didnawisgi (Replaces Hospital), +3 Health, Heals 25% per turn, Required to Build "Red Cross"
UP1ower of the Appalachians, All units start with Guerilla I
UHV1:No Outside influences in Cherokee Lands until 1000 AD
UHV2:No European Powers in or Past the Appalachians until in North America until 1700 AD
UHV3:Build Defensive Pact and Fight in a War on the side of at least One European Nation

IROQUOIS NATIVES
Leader: Logan
Personalityrotective/Organized/Traditional
UU1:Mohawk Archer,(Replaces Longbowman) +25% City Defense, +25% Forest Defense
UB1:LongHouse (Replaces Courthouse), -60% Matnence in City, Can Turn 1 Citizen into a spy, Double Production Speed for Organized Leaders
UP1ower of the Woodland, All units start with Woodsman I
UHV1:No Outside influences in Iroquois Lands until 1000 AD
UHV2:Build Defensive Pact and Fight in a War on the side of at least One European Nation
UHV3:Culturaly Flip at least 6 cities.

Credit Goes to Civ Gold for UUs and UBs.