Worst Wonder

[Ben II]

effil tower,

All it does is look cool

 

[woke26]

i have to concur with kmad. Oracle isnt so bad. oracle in combination with piramids is pretty powerfull. by the time it expires, your cities are large enough to take the loss of the wonder by using entertainers, tax collectors or scientists.

ofcourse i chose Tower as the worst wonder, why is already explaind vastly in this thread.

By the by: I have won MP games by ONLY building the Great Library. You can totally focus on gold and economy while others give you the free techs.

 

[Florian]

The worst has to be Manhattan. I mean, come on. _I_ build the wonder, and _everyone_ shares the advantage with me? And then on top of that, the "advantage" is nuclear weapons! So now every terminally bad-tempered bastard civilization out there (and by this I mean, first and foremost, the blasted Vikings) is going to be rewarding me for making the Manhattan Project by lobbing nukes at me? No thanks.

 

[RedBull]

The Oracle, although it obviously helps, doesn't provide enough of a punch to REALLY help in the long run as far as keeping your people happy. Not a total waste early on, though.

The Eiffel Tower, much like its actual home country, is inept, clumsy, and uncoordinated. Doesn't really do so much on top of the UN to really need it around.

But the WORST is the Manhattan Project. About the only value of Manhattan, to me anyway, is at the point late in the game where you're all set to blitzkrieg your continent/the rest of the remaining civs, in a Bloodlust game, and you have enough tax money coming in from your biggest cities (which are probably sitting in Capitalization) to rush build SDIs in all your cities PLUS all the cities you conquer along the way, as a scare tactic. Basically, all it's good for is using Command & Conquer tactics to try and finish off a game of Civ, and if you can't afford to shell out 15000 gold to rush buy the SDIs, on top of cranking out a functional army, it's useless. And if you *do* have 15000 gold, just buy the damn cities! Worst...wonder...ever!

 

[ElephantU]

Several of us have been known to blitzkrieg an AI civ working on Manhattan. Slipping a couple vet Spies in to target the Wonder production also works. Or just buying the city...

 

[Ace]

Originally posted by Old n Slow
Lately, I’ve put off my building of the GL in favor of other more urgent Wonders -- I’ve also discovered that values and uses of Wonders differs somewhat on the different levels of difficulty.

I think that oedo also notes the value of GL with multi-play. I’m only somewhat aware of that side of the game.

Maybe a good question regarding the GL is: at what level of difficulty would you consider building the GL? Playing my first time at D+1 gave a certain level of discomfort watching the ai start out & stay ahead in the techs…the thought occurs that at some level, D+n, some folks might like the insurance/catch up that the GL provides. Most of those bashing the GL play at Deity & play there well, but those still challenged by King level like the comfort that the GL provides.

For the King level players, have you ever dropped back to Warlord, built all the wonders, traded with the ai & failed to receive free techs from the GL? Maybe then you can see the points being made by

Which opens another question. You walk into the wrong episode of the Twilight Zone. You get to sit down & play Civ II for stakes that are too high…you get a free early wonder (ancients + Marco), BUT you don’t know the difficulty level that you’re playing…maybe only D+2…maybe D+8…you don’t know if it is sp or multi-play…what wonder do YOU want working for you?

In the Twilight zone, all bets are off. I want the Great Wall!!! When it doubt, play it safe. The stakes are too high.

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by Old n Slow

Which opens another question. You walk into the wrong episode of the Twilight Zone. You get to sit down & play Civ II for stakes that are too high…you get a free early wonder (ancients + Marco), BUT you don’t know the difficulty level that you’re playing…maybe only D+2…maybe D+8…you don’t know if it is sp or multi-play…what wonder do YOU want working for you?

Marco Polo. I can figure out the D+n, SP/MP from watching what happens when I build my first cities and talk to the other players. Then I'll decide what I need to prioritize. Might be Sun Tzu next...

 

[funxus]

Originally posted by ElephantU
Several of us have been known to blitzkrieg an AI civ working on Manhattan. Slipping a couple vet Spies in to target the Wonder production also works. Or just buying the city...

It's really horrible when the AI gets Manhattan, although I usually have the money or can get it, it still costs and takes a lot of effort to get an SDI in all cities. The problem is if it's your main enemy's capital that is building it (which isn't too unlikely), and don't have enough units or cities close by to launch an attack or send in spies.

The Eiffel Tower, much like its actual home country, is inept, clumsy, and uncoordinated. Doesn't really do so much on top of the UN to really need it around.

I didn't know the Eiffel Tower was in the US.

 

[SpikeSpiegelJKD]

I share redbull's fears. After manhatten project is built (I try to prevent it), I try to get SDI defenses in all my cities as soon as possible. The worst part is that the AI civs get angry with you for using (or even posessing) a single nuke, but they can threaten me constantly with them, nuke ten of my cities, cause four turns of global warming, and I'm somehow still the bad guy!

Maybe if the AI had repercussions for using nukes, the manhatten project wouldn't be so annoying... the eiffel tower is useless, it has no purpose if you're powerful, since the AI will hate you anyway.

 

[bobgreen]

I voted for the Oracle.... haven't ever built it.
THe Manhatten Project is usually a serios minus...unless you, say, happen to be getting your **** kicked in a diety game. An army of cloak & dagger nukes can do a lot of damage very fast and very cheap. Just be sure you can swim when the warming starts...

 

[ElephantU]

The Oracle can have a positive effect with two conditions:
1. You build it early enough, probably right after you finish your SSC wonders (~200AD?) or in the lull before Copernicus and Newtons (~200BC?).
2. You are teching fast toward spaceship and do not divert yourself toward PolyTheism, MonoTheism or Theology (all off-path techs). Give the other civs Philosophy early on and let them research MonoTheism if they wish. Keep them happy with tech gifts, and if any of them get MT trade for it or steal it and build Mikes right away. In fact, I have seen some games where lethargic AI civs seem to switch to researching MT and THE just to kill off my Oracle, which is exactly what I wanted so that I could grab the techs and build Mikes and JSB. If I am at a bad point to lose the Oracle just then I can tech-bomb whoever seems closest.

BTW, welcome to CFC, bobgreen!

 

[basilfawlty]

Have to agree with the tower, I've seen very little use for it. The problem with manhatten project is you usually don't keep the advantage for long after you build it. The AI's seem to catch up to nukes real fast and they're not timmid about using em.

 

[Emperor Josiah]

I hate the Manhatan project but not as much as hate Darwins voyage. An advance does that. It is just a waste of time the only reason Kmad likes it because he hate God

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by Emperor Josiah
I hate the Manhatan project but not as much as hate Darwins voyage. An advance does that. It is just a waste of time the only reason Kmad likes it because he hate God

Arent you hostile! Welcome to CFC, BTW.

Darwins Voyage is actully a decent wonder. I normally build for one turn then rush buy it. I make that much gold back in 2 turns and I get 2 free techs. The key is the AI doesnt get them.

 

[basilfawlty]

I usually do build darwins voyage but only because by that point I have the rescorces. If possible I like to get all the wonders, it makes for a higher score.

 

[The Person]

My vote goes for Manhattan. Do you like having the AI blasting you out of the map?

 

[Achinz]

Looks like I'm with the majority on the Eiffel Tower. My main interest is in OCC and early landing games and all the wonders in your list are quite dispensable except perhaps for HG which is a strategy I haven't tried.

 

[MikeLynch]

Oracle is easily least useful to me. Usually I'm so busy churning out settlers, making my continent lousy with Me, that by the time any cities get big enough for disorder, Oracle isn't worth it.

 

[Terrapin]

Funny to see this thread again. This was the thread which taught me how much I did not know after 3-4 years of playing. Never built the GL again. Don't even like seeing it on the options list!

 

[ElephantU]

I like seeing 2-3 AI civs building it - keeps them off the ones I want...