Worst Wonder

[Ace]

A spotless rep has no effect on score. It does effect your relations with the AIs. For example, when you "make peace" with an AI, it usually lasts for 16 turns, IIRC, before expiring and the AI sneak attacks you, but if your rep is not so good, the AI will break the peace much quicker. I have had it happen where my rep was Atrocious and the AI sneak attacked me the turn after making peace!

There are some old threads here regarding rep in relation to a Power Democracy too. Maybe by Starlifter. The idea is that if you maintain a spotless rep, the senate, in a republic/democracy, will support your "violent" activities more often. It does work where, after you have been sneak attacked a couple of times, your senate seems to get "fed up" with a particularly nasty AI civ and continually supports "peacekeeping" activities against it.

At govenmental levels below Republic/Democracy, where one is in "expansion mode", and constantly at war with all the AIs, ones rep is unimportant since, as the "bully on the block", one just takes everything.

 

[Millman]

It's too hard to say. The Lighthhouse gets obsolete. The Eiffel Tower improves your reputation and makes it harder to be hated. It would be one of those or Marco Polo's Embassy. I'm usually ahead and don't need to talk to anyone.

 

[Obie one kanobi]

The light house sucks. i mean it a lighthouse, neglible benefits, runs out any way, the oracle is nearly as useless. i play on deity and can nearly always acheive world dom. nevr use it unless i've got the spare resources to build it. Eiffel can be very effective and useful depending on your game plan. darwins is an essential wonder for many reasons. It stops any other civ suddenly improving and if you time it right in conjunction with industriisation in can be excellent. Just after selecting industrilzation as your next research project set the science to 10.0 0r a 9.1 in a democracy. This technigue may not work for the science city crowd but my still its perfect. at this stage i would be on a say 5.5 or 4.6 split with a tech every 4-6 goes and a steady income of 200-500 cash. I probably have hopefully 30-50 cities on a deity game some of ehich would be newlty built 2 or 3 size. I would have dv building in a city with 5-10 turns left on it depending on my situation. By the time dv is built my treasury would be swollen up nicely and i would aqire indust plus another tech. I then go on to city sreen and change what every city is buillding to fact. rush buying as many as poss straight away espec in the small cities. Allowing them to then become blossoming self sufficient metropolises. The sooner you have factorys the quicker your civ grows any delay in building them is catasrphic in building them

 

[civdood]

Eiffel tower is the worst wonder for a human player to build. No use in a practical sense under almost any condition in Civ 2 MGE.

 

[civdood]

It would be one of those or Marco Polo's Embassy. I'm usually ahead and don't need to talk to anyone.

MPE can be used to speed research... particularly needed research... tremendously. You can direct the AI research, like a conductor in a choir, and reap the benefits of AI work. You can also find the enemy, and map the world via MPE... as well as determine your plan of attack earlier.

MPE basically obsoletes the Great Library, in a manner of speaking. Research can be so accelerated that the GL is not necessary for a human... esp. if you can let the purple civ get it while you are Supreme.

 

[starlifter]

Eiffel tower is the worst wonder for a human player to build.

Absolutely right.

Naturally, if one is on a solid "land" map, or some sort of scenario/extreme case, then a Wonder like Lighthouse would have no value at all, except in points and IPRBs (assuming it was unbuilt).

MPE can be used to speed research...

In some games, MPE could be the most valuable ancient wonder. It is almost always an outstanding wonder to possess early in the game, but it seems a wonder which many don't fully understand, in terms of gameplay and in terms of science & exploring. You can play the AI like a violin with this wonder, and get THEM to do research "for" you, which you then collect at your liesure .

 

[Millman]

Isn't there already a thread on this? I think I will change it to colossus. I go into literacy right away and build the Great Library in my third to sixth city so getting trade is still a long way off, although I should try it that way.

Against computers, the game isn't realistically hard enough anymore for me to really lose.

If my memory serves me correctly, on the playstation version you never get enough points by conquest, I usually wait until the end and overpower my opponent with an arch-typical power democracy. In the playstation version, they have that nice unlimited 'revolution'.

 

[starlifter]

Against computers, the game isn't realistically hard enough anymore for me to really lose.

Most players, with some experience, normally won't lose outright; but playing for goals, like a pre-AD100 SS landing, or to win with one city only, Size 5 maximum, or Diety+1 or +2... yada yada can still a challenge. Sometimes I like to just nuke something for the entertainment of hearing the warning, and watching the theatrics. Hey... someone should make a scenario that will pretty much guarantee the human will lose, but have a struggle before succumbing... anyone ever seen the ending of Half-Life, where the G-man gives Gordon a choice, and if Gordon chooses... unwisely.

 

[Millman]

Against a great or good human player you will build any wonders you can get your hands on.

 

[Dong2Long]

I just voted a simlar thread, and eiffel was no option. but then its no wonder. haha, pun intended, not bad from a euro mind.

 

[starlifter]

I just voted a simlar thread, and eiffel was no option.

There are several polls out; one of them did not list Eiffel Tower, but that might have been because the poller knew that would attract the most votes.

 

[Peaster]

The most underestimated wonder is obviously the Lighthouse ! Not only a key to early conquest, but also to early trade. That pays dividends no matter what your overall goal might be.

 

[EquinoxOmega]

I hate the "Great Libary", but I have to build it.
Usally I am the most advanced Civ and so the possesor of it always gets new technology as soon anybody else invents something. I hate this and I hate the consequence: I have to build it to avoid the others to get technology although I never get any advantage from that wonder.

 

[Specialist290]

I'm in with the Eiffel Tower camp. If I want to maintain a Spotless rep, I don't run around causing the kind of trouble that would tarnish it (intentionally, anyway), and if I ever get to the point where I ever need Eiffel to recover it, I'm generally too far steeped in conquest to actually care about getting any kind of treaty.

 

[Obie one kanobi]

For the style in which i play darwins is very useful. Not only does its construction stop the ai obtaining 2 advances as well as gifting you two it has an added bonus. By the time i obtain railroad industrilisation is just around the corner. I play an expansion style building as many cities as poss. Even on deity i aim to have at least 20 if not nearer to 40-50 cities by this point. centering my entire ethos on building as many cities as early as poss means that when industrilization occurs i have a lot of cities to rush buy factorys in. My tactic is to obtain railroad then start building darwins, preffably in the city i've built krc in. I set up a scenario where by with the use of a couple of caravans the city in question will build dv in 7-8 turns. In all the other cities i will get them to build a city feature that will take a couple of turns more. By now i hopefully will have democracy, i set the tax rate to 10 -0 in favour of money and allow the money to amass. The city builds darwins, i get 2 advances negating any loss i made in the tech race over the 7-8 goes and im filthy rich, rush buying factories in even in 2-3 cities in one go and hopefully having a wodge of cash to subvert an enemy city with left over

 

[OscarWildebeest]

I've just read this thread all the way through in one go, and it's been a real eye-opener. I'd have said all the WOWs in the list were essential or at least desirable, but reading the comments shows me a whole load of tactics I never even considered. It's no wonder I always struggled when I played any level higher than Prince...

Anyway, I've upgraded to Civ4 now so it's a bit late in the day but never mind.

 

[Clausewitzian]

Can't resist this one. Great Library is hands down the worst wonder in the game. Wasn't alwways that way. In my early days I built it every time, and loved it. All those free advances coming your way, felt like Christmas.

Then came the game that I wasn't able to achieve my wonder race because of all those great advances coming my way. I've stopped building that wonder ever since.

The Great Library is the only wonder that will actually hurt you in the game (though the Manhatten Project also comes to mind), once you know what you're doing. Even the worthless Eiffel Tower doesn't hurt you. It just sits around and doesn't do anything much in most normal games. I'll take the Eiffel Tower over GL any day of the week.

Therefore this is the one wonder I'll go out of my way to avoid. And if one the AI civs wants it, all power to them. Against me, that AI civ is gonna need whatever help it can get!

 

[marthinwurer]

The light house sucks. i mean it a lighthouse, neglible benefits, runs out any way, the oracle is nearly as useless.

yea right! i use the lighthouse for makeing large exploreations, because i realy reashearch millitary techs then.

 

[Skinnedy]

I've been playing deity for years, and if I don't get the great library, I start over... with 7 Civs on the map, it's essential to have if you want to win a tech war and stay ahead of the game...

I'm not a big fan of giving away my Techs...

Hanging Gardens to Colossus to Great Library

it's almost impossible to grow without the Hanging Gardens on Deity, and the Colossus isn't necessary, it just makes things easier.

I think the most important wonders in chronological order are Hanging Gardens, Great Library, Michaelangelo's Chapel, JS Bach's Cathedral.

on a Huge map, I actually think the Great Wall is the most useless... I can usually get to Cannons before I even start a serious war.

same goes for the Oracle. It's obsolete so fast, that I don't bother with it.

 

[carn]

I've been playing deity for years, and if I don't get the great library, I start over... with 7 Civs on the map, it's essential to have if you want to win a tech war and stay ahead of the game...

I'm not a big fan of giving away my Techs...

Hanging Gardens to Colossus to Great Library

it's almost impossible to grow without the Hanging Gardens on Deity, and the Colossus isn't necessary, it just makes things easier.

I think the most important wonders in chronological order are Hanging Gardens, Great Library, Michaelangelo's Chapel, JS Bach's Cathedral.

on a Huge map, I actually think the Great Wall is the most useless... I can usually get to Cannons before I even start a serious war.

same goes for the Oracle. It's obsolete so fast, that I don't bother with it.

You should read the posts somewhere above, were someone explained to me the main error of this strategy: Black revolting people do take 2 "makes unhappy content" away, but 2 luxuries make a black one happy(while an unhappy one takes 4 lux).
Therefore a democracy can keep people celebrating with minimal taxes, if it just have enough cities, so that there are many black revolters. Then the only limit is food and aquaduct/sanitation. Therefore with this strat it is essential to get sanitation as soon as possible. Since tech cost increase with the number of techs researched and goten from Great Library and the AI researches many techs unnecessary to getting sanitation, having GL will delay the moment you're cities grow to 20+ size and this will hurt more than the positive GL effect.