Worst Wonder

[Ohwell]

The great library. The Great Library gives techs I don't want, and I am usually in a tech lead anyway, so it is a waste of shields.

The oracle I find is very useful and expires when you can better handle happiness problems, so I almost always build it in conjunction with the hanging gardens. The tower... well the AI doesn't seem to care whether you have the tower or not They will just attack you no matter what the reputation.

 

[Ace]

The Manhatten Project is the worst wonder. It allows the AI to nuke everything. Unless you play a completely bloodlust game, it is the one wonder to avoid until the last turn before your SS lands.

As for the Tower, if you play at diety level and want to use democracy AND fight a war, the tower can help your reputation. And your reputation IS important in republic or democracy as (theoratically) if your rep is spotless, the senate will support you 50% of the time. Reputation also counts when dealing with the AI. If you manage to become atrocious, no one will trade with you and if you enter into a cease fire, the AI will probably break it on the very next turn.

The tower is not really a great wonder (does give you 20 points), but it does not cause you the misery, and expense, that the Manhatten Project does.

 

[duke o' york]

I have to agree that Darwin's Voyage is not a great wonder, but it isn't totally useless either. You should have the SSC pumping out tech by that time so it doesn't make a phenomenal difference, but it is quite pleasant to get the bonus techs. At least you get to choose them, unlike the Great Library, which can really cost you research time and wonders too, potentially. I always find that there is a noticeable gap in between building Leonardo's and the Hoover Dam or Women's Suffrage, while you are researching the techs without wonders like physics and chemistry, etc so I like to build it for something to do. I'd rather miss out on Darwin's than on Women's Suffrage, the UN or Hoover, but will always take it if it comes along.

 

[Marlos]

Not to harp on why DV is a good wonder, but some wonders you have to build for defensive purposes. DV is one of them. If you don't build it, the AI will and reap the benefits of its construction.

Other WOTW that can fall into this category (depending on how you like to play the game) are Great Library, Great Wall (don't let a neighbor get it ), and Hoover Dam.

 

[starlifter]

Easily, the Eiffel Tower is the most useless.

The GL & Oracle are not too useful. The Lighthouse can be useful, but it expires very quickly most of the time.

Manhattan is OK... I just don't like spending 600 shields for it. I don't mind rednecking the AI with Nukes, and do not care if the AI has nukes or not, since I will not allow the AI to get nukes without me having Laser & SDI traps.

I normally find Darwin's pretty useless if I'm in Democracy, since I'm generating one advance per day with trade anyway. 8 freight will give 2 or 3 advances, plus trade routes and lots of gold. Darwin is most useful for the turn you discover Flight and Radio, since that is the only time I normally suspend trade deliveries (while Airports are instantly built at key trade cities).

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I agree that Eiffel is the most useless. But Manhattan is worse than useless! It is actually harmful. Preventing Nukes is costly; using them causes too much pollution. My vote is definitely on Manhattan, the only negative Wonder of the World.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by seanwel
I understand that Darwin' Voyage yields two civilization advances, but it costs twice as many shields as the pyramids. That is why I made the comparison of one advance to the granary in every city.

That just shows that the Pyramids are more valuable for the cost. It doesn't mean Darwin is worthless.

- Darwin *gives* you extra techs of your choosing = Some Good
- Tower effects reputation which I can either (a) keep spotless or (b) don't care about. = No help, no harm (other than shield cost)
- GL *hurts* targeted research rates with techs you don't need at the time. = Negative impact

I would argue that MP has negative value as well, but since true warmongers really like those nukes, I'll stick with the GL.

 

[eyeball]

I never use nukes, so I would say the Manhattan Project.

 

[Ren]

Considering the way I play, and the difficulty I play on, I'll go with Lighthouse. I find the Eiffel Tower useful, once again considering the way I play

Another one I hate is King Richard's Crusade, waste of time. The only reason I build Manhattan Project, amongst other wonders, is for a better score

 

[Old n Slow]

I've been slammed.

The GL is one of my favorite wonders (as a middling player) generating 0 to 8 techs -- depending upon my speed of growth & other breaks in the game. As for speed of tech development, I've discovered that sometimes as I avoid an old tech (WC) it sometimes snags my path when I'm looking to get the next (say leadership) in the pipeline. I also like the insurance aspect when I'm too sloppy in the play of the game.

I agree that the Tower is somewhere between zero & indeterminate, Darwin's is somewhere between 1.01 & 1.99 worth of tech depending again on other factors (but if one trades well and if one has caravans with commodities to trade... the opportunity cost of those eight caravans looms large) which might have a positive value.

Lighthouse is occasionally valuable, but often not so. Oracle seems to flick some Bics at the Deity level, but lower down it is easy to pass.

I voted for Manhattan, since it is 600 shields for 20 game points where the rest are cheaper to pick up for those reasons.

(5 spelling malfunctions -- got to work on that.)

 

[starlifter]

by Ren:

I find the Eiffel Tower useful, once again considering the way I play

How do you fine the ET useful... e.g., how exactly to you use it effectively? The AI always has a poor attitude to me in any but OCC games, by that point. My reputation is always spotless. I just can't even work out a theoretical practical use for it .

Another one I hate is King Richard's Crusade, waste of time.

KRC can be one of the most dominate early game wonders, if used properly. Steady output of 34 to 36 shields from the KRC for 50 to 90 game turns is a great deal.... but with a small-city strategy, it would be less useful. I like size 20+ cities with KRC, though. In effect, KRC also acts like a Mass Transit, without the cost, since there is no PP before Ind.

 

[Andu Indorin]

In my opinion, the Oracle is the most useless, since it requires the building of temples to be of any effectiveness. Mike's Chapel more or less negates the desirability of the Oracle.

I see that many have voted for The Manhatten Project. This Wonder does have one (apparent) benefit that is often overlooked. Once built, it has been observed that the availability of that Uranium -- that rarest of commodities -- roughly doubles. And Nuclear Missiles do wonders for your diplomatic relations against AI opponents who, thanks Modernization and the Power Democracy, will never achieve Flight, much less Rocketry. (Here I might add that after you have armed yourself with such Retribution, the building of the Eiffel Tower will then usually guarantee that opposing AI's will remain "Worshipful" for the remainder of the game. Not a necessity, but one amusing aspect to that Wonder that sets it apart from the Oracle.)

 

[Jamesds]

Lighthouse - Runs out too quickly, and does NOTHING special, or useful to me

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Jamesds
Lighthouse - Runs out too quickly, and does NOTHING special, or useful to me

I take it you've never tried "Super Ironclads".

With Lighthouse and Magellan build a bunch of ironclads... they will have a move of 7, and they are given instant Veteran status. They will own the seas and can annihilate any pre-gunpowder along the coast. I tried it one game - they were unbelievably powerful.

 

[oedo]

Originally posted by TimTheEnchanter


I take it you've never tried "Super Ironclads".

With Lighthouse and Magellan build a bunch of ironclads... they will have a move of 7, and they are given instant Veteran status. They will own the seas and can annihilate any pre-gunpowder along the coast. I tried it one game - they were unbelievably powerful.

vet ironclads, that´s it!
unbelievable finding a wonder like Lighthouse on the flop list.

 

[Jamesds]

"Super Ironclads", you've certainly got me interested! Maybe I'll try them, if they do work, and destroy to my liking, maybe I'll start thinking about a new 'Worst Wonder'! That's it, Oracle.

Oracle runs out too quickly, even quicker then lighthouse, and doesn't do anything that you can't do in a cheaper, quicker way.

Thanks TimTheEnchanter! Super Ironclads? Interesting!!! Funny name though!!

 

[Sodak]

Super ironclads are a fabulous early strategy, you should try it at least once. Don't bother if you are on a big continent, tho...

It's good to see the Eiffel Tower leading the poll. Who cares about reputation? It is irrelevant in MGE, the AI hates you and sneak attacks you anyway, even with a spotless reputation.

 

[starlifter]

The Super Irorclad strategy is very powerful. I normally put the LH low on the list, but if you can combine the SI strategy with pre-Nav and Pre-Inv trade using unsinkable triremes (LH), then it can be very powerful. The only "problem" I have with this combination is how fast science can progress (one advance per day at times) ... the Super Ironclad window is very small (lose LH with Magnetism). I like the Sun-Tzu with Leonardos & Magellans, which will get my newly upgraded non-vet destroyers up to vets with minor battles.

 

[Archer 007]

Eiffel Tower.
I have a hard time w/ democracies. They always collapse on me :jump:

 

[Paramos]

Some of these unpopular wonders I like to build simply because I hate letting the enemy civs get them. GL can be irritating in enemy hands, especially when some greedy diplomat steals your best tech... the civ with GL gets the tech automatically as well!

Similarly, Darwin's Voyage can be vital to stop the enemy catching up or overtaking in the tech race. If another civ builds it they can take the lead in the race for WS, UN and HD, and no amount of shields or gold can get you those wonders if you can't research the technology in time to beat the AI.

On the other hand, KRC is only of minor advantage to the human player (in order to build other wonders quickly), but in AI hands it seems totally useless. Usually the AI city with KRC never gets to build another wonder in that city!