Wow....plus SMAC mod reborn!

[snipperrabbit!!]

here = the thread you are currently reading.

 

[Major Scientist]

Ah, I also saw the model for Lal's city, very nice.

On a similar note: Are you using the leader traits (Industrious, Organized, ect...) to assign bonuses to the various factions?

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

Not really discussed atm.

 

[asioasioasio]

ok so - update it's how the peeceekepers city set would look like:

 

[Talkie_Toaster]

Hey, I've not posted here much but how's the customizable units thing coming along? I had this idea that you could use the current promotions system for things like "Force-field II" etc.

Probably won't work but hey

 

[Gerikes]

Hey, I've not posted here much but how's the customizable units thing coming along? I had this idea that you could use the current promotions system for things like "Force-field II" etc.

Probably won't work but hey

We initially tried going with a completely customizable unit-building process, where once the unit pops out you can assign it it's combat/movement/etc stats using special promotions. Right now, however, the general idea seems to be that it's too much work for both the developer and the player, and not enough fun to warrant that work

However, there will probably still be customizations. Right now, it looks like all the weapon/armor/movement will be pre-set on a per-unit basis, but perhaps with a bunch of "Special Abilities" to choose for each unit. Some units will probably have more interesting Special Abilities than others.

 

[GRM7584]

Uninformed idea vomit follows. I've read most of this thread, but I promise nothing. Browse at your own risk.

Spoiler XML Notes/Opinions :

-Factions: I envision 8, some combined, with aliens omitted. Reasoning: Some of the factions/leaders are too similar or have no character, namely, from the expansion. Further, 8 Factions makes a nice number for an Average size map, and syncs with the religion screen for 7 religions (getting to that next).
-I envision religion as being replaced by Belief System, one for each faction, excepting for one (explained laterish).
-I envision civics, and favored civics, as being almost identical to the ones listed in SMAC.
-I envision techs being just like they are in SMAC. You have a whole tech tree already made for you! No planning, no muss, no fuss. Er, lots of work, though.
-I envision Health as being approximate to "Ecology" from SMAC, in addition to its Civ4 description...if things are "unhealthy", you've got too many citizens being picked off by angry mindworms.
-I envision the following unit categories:
LAND DOMAIN: Infantry (Infantry Chassis), Mobile (Speeder and Hovertank Chassis), Artillery (Artillery Weapons)
AIR DOMAIN: Airship (Copter and Gravship Chassis), Aerial (Needlejet Chassis)
PSI DOMAIN: Psi (Lifeforms or Psi Weapons)
SEA DOMAIN: Naval (Foil and Cruiser Chassis).
-Quotes: You will have no difficulty finding these. Just saying. Now, if you could only get Firaxis to let you use the audio half of those...

Spoiler Python/SDK Notes/Opinions :

-It would be nice if religion (Belief, aforementioned) was as important as it is in FFH, or if cities could "convert" to another faction as a result of: Culture, Belief, Probe Team influence, etc. I think this would also beg the use of "inquisitor" style units.

-It would be nice if civics functioned as they did in SMAC, with strong correlation to wonders. Thankfully, a lot of the Social Engineering mechanics carried over to Civics, so I personally think this area needs the least work to be effective.

-It would be nice if Ecology worked the way it did in SMAC, with Lifeforms appearing in fungus and prioritizing high-industry bases for pillage and attack...and further, if they can be captured by appropriate factions (or civic-users). I think these are both very possible, given what other mods have done with similar concepts (Enslavement). Also, at various trigger-points, there should be planet-wide health drops and worm signs...er...spawns. FFH does a fab job of that sort of thing; I think someone already mentioned use of the Armageddon Counter from FFH.

-I really would rather not see a "Unit Builder" Screen, or Modular Units. Civ 4 is just not made for it, nor is the AI. "Purchasable" promotions with improving weapons/armor, I can see (the "crew" mechanic from FFH comes to mind). One possible approach is to leave weapons and armor in the purchasable promotions realm, and make "Default" platforms for each Unit Chassis, one per reactor level, with improving "default" weapon/armor promotions based on other available techs.

-It would be nice if probe teams had more functions than spies do in current civ. Seems low priority, but other mods have made interesting accomplishments.

-Without too much hassle, I could see for improvements: Cottages = Forests (they take time to grow before the "tree farm buildings" aid them, to make them slightly less powerful than in SMAC; Forest spread would only create "new growth" that had to be worked to improve), Watermills = Gone, Farms could provide increasing benefits based on humidity of terrain (accomplished by making seperate farm improvements for each terrain), Mines could do the same, and Solar Collectors could also do the same, albeit for features (Hills or Not Hills). Fungus is, of course, jungle, and it is about as nasty at game start as jungle is in Civ 4. As for the others: Boreholes, Mirrors, Humidifiers; I think they should only be in if they can be actively targetted by native life, and function as they did in SMAC.

-I'm glad that UN mechanics are high priority, that was easily one of the best ideas in SMAC, albeit sometimes silly due to AI. Civ 4 UN is...it shouldn't have made it into the final game, and I'm surprised it wasn't improved in Warlords.

-Unity Pods, Sea Unity Pods, and Landmarks: Since you will absolutely need a custom mapscript for this anyhow, preferably one with artifical windspeed/moisture/altitude as dominant factors, it would be nice if it made landmarks, too. Unity Pods, and the many things they did, were fundamental in creating that "exploring an unknown world" feel, and they should be around in abundance with most or all of their original effects.

-Sea Bases: I wish. I don't see the AI liking it.

-Offworld/Satellites: Satellites Advisor Screen. Seems necessary, and doable.

-Convoys: No. Unbalancing, unnecessary implementation. I hope this isn't in.

-Blind Research: I think it should be in, there are already FLAVOR values for the AI, and it doesn't sound hard compared to what other mods have accomplished (tech leaking, for example). It would also remove a burden of choice from the AI, such that what the AI researches changes from game to game, instead of always avoiding X, Y, and Z technologies (Any Popped Religious/Free Tech/Free GP Tech, etc. from Civ 4)

-Specialists: SMAC had a colorful array of them; I think the GP mechanic will sync well with it. More or less:
-Librarian- Great Scientist = Master Librarian, no change
-Technician- Great Merchant = Master Technician, "trade mission" replaced by "Collector Optimization" for a friendly city, improves solar collector functionality in its radius.
-Psychologist- Great Prophet/Great Artist = Master Psychologist, Holy Shrine replaced by "Propaganda" ability, converts city to Faction belief par missionary and adds Factional culture; when added to city, increases happiness.
-Engineer- Great Engineer = Master Engineer, no change (creative!)
-Doctor- New = Master Surgeon, can instantly build any two biomedical-themed buildings (Creche, Hospitals, Recycling Tanks, etc.), when added to city, increases health.
-Transcend - New = Omega Transcend, does something so amazing it can't be mentioned.

Spoiler Factional Division :

University of Planet - Zakharov, Aki-Zeta 5 - Smarties.
People's collective - Yang, Domai - Commies.
Children of Gaia - Deirdre, Cha Dawn - Hippies.
The Believers - Miriam - Fanatics...but not for Civ. I'd like to see them following a more syncretic religion than the straightforward Evangelical Christian Zealots that SMAC puts forth.
Spartans - Santiago - Madmen...wait, no. THIS...IS...SPARTAAAAAAA.
Morgan Industries - Morgan - Not-Have-Nots.
Freedom union - Roze, Ulrik - Near-Anarchists.
Peacekeepers - Lal - Peaceniks.

Spoiler Faction-Specific Traits :

Factionname - Title: Effect
- (Alternative/Additional SDK/Python Effect)
- Title: Effect
- (Alternative/Additional SDK/Python Effect)

University - Innovative: +15% Research, Double Speed Network Node
- (Free Network Node all bases)
- Amoral: -1 Happy/Healthy All Bases
- ("Minor Atrocity" diplo penalties decreased)

People's Collective - Industrious: +10% Production, Double Speed Terraformers
- (Improved Terraforming Speed)
- Socialist: -15% Credits
- (Maintenance Costs averaged and increased faction-wide)

Children of Gaia - Environmental: +3 Health all Bases, Double Speed Centauri Preserve and Biology Lab
- (Reduced Eco Impact on Planet, Improved Psi Capture)
- Regressive: -10% Production
- (Cannot Build Factory-type buildings, Production bonuses instead applied to Planetary/Research Buildings)

Believers - Zealotous: Free "Zeal" promotion for all units, Double Speed Colony Pods
- (Resistant to belief spread, resistant to probe teams)
- Subjective: -15% Research
- (No research accumulated until first discovery [By another faction] is made)

Spartans - Strategic: Free "Hardened" Promotion to all Land Units, +50% Great General Rate, Double Speed Command Center, [JOKE] Double Speed Hell's Diner [/JOKE]
- (Improved benefits to unit promotions)
- Elite: -15% Military Unit Production
- (Unit promotions cost [more?] credits)

Morgan Industries - Financial: +15% Credits, Double Speed Energy Bank
- (Gain a 5% "cut" of total trade between other factions)
- Extravagant: -3 Health All Bases
- (Cities cannot grow beyond size X without Hab Complex or Hab Dome)

Freedom Union - Independent: Free "Spirited" promotion to all units, +1 Happy all Bases
- (No State Belief system, no negative effects from belief)
- Anarchic: +50% Upkeep Costs
- ("Revolt" Base events and "Desertion" Unit events more likely, and/or equivalent Probe Team effects less costly against Union)

Peacekeepers - Civil: No Anarchy, Double Speed Hab Complex and Hab Dome
- (Improved United Planets Performance)
- Bureaucratic: -10% Production Wonders, National Wonders, Projects
- (Buildings Cost "Overhead", requiring an initial investment of credits)

Spoiler Leader-Specific Traits :

Leadername - Title: Effect
- (Alternative/Additional SDK/Python Effect)

Zakharov - Genius: +15% Research
- (+2 Beakers all Specialists, Free Technology Boost after each 'Era Change')

Aki-Zeta 5 - Cybernetic: -15% Food, +10% Production, +10% Commerce
- (+5% Production and Commerce for each "Cybernetic" technology gained)

Yang - Visionary: +10% Food, Double Speed Perimeter Defense, -10% Commerce
- (All Bases start with Perimeter Defense, Can Mind Staple without Penalty)

Domai - Emancipator: +1 Happy all Bases, +10% Production
- (Unhappy citizens from other bases "migrate" to Domai's using Rhye's America mechanic)

Deirdre - Biologist: +2 Healthy, +10% Food
- (Improved Psi Capture ability, Improved Forest Yield)

Cha Dawn - Prophet: All Psi Units gain free "Cultist" Promotion, Double Speed Temple of Planet and Brood Pit
- (Free Psi Units from building planetary improvements, Improved Fungus Yield)

Miriam - Chaplain: +1 Happy all Bases, Double Speed Recreation Commons
- (Bases resistant to Probe Teams and Non-faction Beliefs)

Santiago - Survivalist: Double Speed Recycling Tanks, Perimeter Defense, Children's Creche
- (Improved pops from Unity Pods, Happiness bonus during defensive war)

Roze - Hacker: Double Speed Probe Teams, all Probe Teams start with "Guile" promotion
- (Reduced Cost for probe team actions, Unity Pods can produce Probe Teams)

Ulrik - Captain: Double Speed Naval Yard, All Sea Units gain Free "Seaworthy" promotion
- (Chance of Capturing enemy vessels, Begins with Ocean Base and Naval techs)

Lal - Brother: +100% Great People
(Cannot commit atrocities, atrocities against Lal cause double diplo penalties for their originators)

End of idea vomit.

I might be able to help out with ideas and balancing them, and I wouldn't mind contributing towards XML stuff, but I don't think I can fully dedicate to a project of this scope, especially to the labor-intensive part (you know, the part you actually need helpers on). Then there's life, trying to work on my own little mod, playing civ, excuses excuses etc. Once you get to an alpha/beta stage and need testers, of course, I'm there. If there's something you think I can help with, though, drop a line.

 

[woodelf]

Some nice ideas in that vomit GRM. It'll take time to digest them.

I know from past experience you're a good idea man and modder since your CivIII mod about colonizing America was the first one that made me want to mod myself.

OT - if you follow my sig you'll see a new one has come out for CivIV.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

GRM , I wandered recently in a thread were you posted icons some months ago. I must say I like them !

 

[GRM7584]

Some nice ideas in that vomit GRM. It'll take time to digest them.

I know from past experience you're a good idea man and modder since your CivIII mod about colonizing America was the first one that made me want to mod myself.

OT - if you follow my sig you'll see a new one has come out for CivIV.

Well, I owe it to myself to check that out, then...for all its incompleteness, I had a lot of fun making that civ3 mod. I remember wanting to make a SMAC-style mod as a sequel for civ3, back in the day, and was well underway...but college struck hard, Civ4 beta'd me, and then Civ4 came out...and goodbye, old civ3 projects.

Edit:

GRM , I wandered recently in a thread were you posted icons some months ago. I must say I like them !

Yes...I haven't checked any of my old civ3 graphics threads in eternities. My favorite was the canyon terrain...too bad desert rivers in civ4 don't make canyons.

 

[woodelf]

Here's a quick screenie of a mindworm tank I've been working on. The tank is transparent, but form some reason the worm inside isn't showing up yet. I'll work on it.

disclaimer - some textures borrowed from some web shots of Unreal.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

We must keep those sheeps, with a retexture and a third pair of paws they will look awesome !

 

[Chamaedrys]

Here's a quick screenie of a mindworm tank I've been working on. The tank is transparent, but form some reason the worm inside isn't showing up yet. I'll work on it.

disclaimer - some textures borrowed from some web shots of Unreal.

1. Nice work. The machine on the right side looks great.

2. How do you create transparent models??? I have tried to add transparency once, but without success. Can you show me that technique, please?

 

[woodelf]

1. Nice work. The machine on the right side looks great.

2. How do you create transparent models??? I have tried to add transparency once, but without success. Can you show me that technique, please?

Thanks. I just learned from asioasioasio and he painstakingly PM'd me about 10 times and had a couple of hosted screenshots up to help me as well. I'd feel better if he offered to help because I still miss a step or two along the way and have to backtrack. Not the best teaching method. And I've only done it twice!

If he doesn't have the time I'll do another model with transparency early next week and try to capture some screenshots Cham.

 

[Yakk]

Responding to woodelf's post in this thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=213207

Thanks B-B. I don't know our exact plans, but the ability to have terraformers plant resources (Earth-like anyhow) might need to be an option.

Unity pods that contain earth-plant-seeds that, initially, you have to grow in hydroponic pods in a base (+health buildings, requires seed-line tech). Getting the unity pod gives you the seed-line (which are represented via a technology) that you can trade with other nations.

Technologies that let you adapt earth-plants to planet. These technologies reveal "potentially fertile with X" bonus tiles. If you have the seed you can now plant the crop.

A high enough technology lets you rebuild the seed-lines from your genetic databases, but no access to the seed. Wonder: Dinosaur Park.

Animals should be harder to adapt, so they spend more time inside the city dome: but that tech tree eventually leads to adapted humans.

I rather like the idea that life support determines colony size, and food supplies act like health. In the start, you have large numbers of frozen colonists: by the time that runs out, reproductive technologies are kicking into high gear.

What matters is how many people you can support at once (with air, food, living quarters, etc). Food is useful, but not the only thing.

 

[Hexed]

Oh, Cool. I am so happy someone is doing this. I got a question though, are you guys going to do the customizable map size? I really loved that, I want to play in a world that is so large that I will never (or most likely never) see it all.

I love just wandering the world with lone units untill they get killed/lost it is just great.

Keep up the good work and thank you all

 

[troyDoogle7]

Yakk, that Idea sounds really wonderful... Could be implemented via resources, allowing one team to trade seeds to another. The same resource could become available to everyone via a tech using just standard xml mod, but would allow early settlements to obtain an advantage...

 

[Chamaedrys]

I rather like the idea that life support determines colony size, and food supplies act like health. In the start, you have large numbers of frozen colonists: by the time that runs out, reproductive technologies are kicking into high gear.

Well, the life support consists machines and the energy to keep the machines running. The plants and animals are grown in the artificial enviroment of green houses and factory farms.
So life support and food are just machines and energy

 

[Yakk]

Yakk, that Idea sounds really wonderful... Could be implemented via resources, allowing one team to trade seeds to another.

I would propose a technology instead: this fits the economic model better. (it is something you trade once, not something you supply over time)

We are assuming reasonable levels of technology, so selling "sterile" or dead food to another nation would be quite economical, and would prevent them from cutting into your monopoly. Hence having the "supply of beef" or "supply of wheat" being a resource, while "breeding cows" or "seed wheat" being a technology.

Having "seed wheat" would allow you to build a "wheat hydroponic plant" in a city, granting health benefits. Later, when your technology becomes sufficient, you can develop "farm domes" which you can build outside of your cities, and eventually "hybrid wheat" which can be grown in the outer air.

These technologies would reveal "fertile for wheat" tiles on the map, which could be planted with the appropriate farms for extra food and/or health.

The same resource could become available to everyone via a tech using just standard xml mod, but would allow early settlements to obtain an advantage...

*nod*, and I can imagine that some of the crash-landed parts of the ship would contain seed and cattle stock that survived, as well as genetic data on most of the life on Earth. These would be important biotech resources.

 

[Gerikes]

Oh, Cool. I am so happy someone is doing this. I got a question though, are you guys going to do the customizable map size? I really loved that, I want to play in a world that is so large that I will never (or most likely never) see it all.

Since this is a feature in Civ4 already, it is already implemented. So, I guess the answer is yes