Dr. Dr. Doktor
Emperor
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And around 65 years ago they put them in concentration camps.
WTO protesters still think they can make a differance.
- Thread starter h4ppy
- Start date
And around 65 years ago they put them in concentration camps.
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
Boo hoo breaking the law. Understand this, the Nazi's had laws which disicrimated against Jews. There is a law in england which says you can shoot scotsman in kent with a bow and arrow after dark. And so on. My point: just because something is a law doesn't mean it is right. Anyway, humans were around long before cars
And how am I being hypocritical? I fail to understand this accusation. Anti-WTO protests aren't about preaching peace and love, they are about how much people detest the capitalist system which only benifits the rich.
As for those mexican activists, well seeing how their so called government is whoreing the lands of these people to teh highest corparate bidders, then these peopel have every right to use the means neccessary to fight back against this oppression and selling of their lands.
Note about police tatics: At anti-war protests here in my town first time round the police didn't stop us doing anything, but then for the next protest(s) they had orders from 'up high' to 'clamp down' on us.
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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These WTO protesters are idealists who dont know how the real world works. Theyre against sweat shops in the third world, meanwhile, these places provide desperately needed employment to thousands of people who otherwise would be out of work. Yes, by Western standards, these people are paid slave wages but not by the standards of their countries. In 3rd world countries these jobs are desirable and are better than working in the fields. The only people who would suffer if these jerks had their way would be the very people they think theyre helping. Sure it would be nice if they had medical benefits and made $20 an hour like American workers but it aint happenin' anytime soon.
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
Actually, these people DO know how the real world works, hence being against the WTO.
If you actually listened to what these people in these countries actually have to say then you will realise that they have been getting poorer and poorer under the economics pushed on them by organistaions such as the WTO, IMF and world bank.
If there was a fair trade system there would be jobs, better paid jobs. Of course, this will never happen as the WTO is only intrested in furthering the profits of the rich countires.
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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Comrade, in the real world, there will always be rich people and there will always be poor people. Thats the way its always been. The anti WTO guys act like this is a new development. Have any of them ever actually gone to one of these countries and asked one of the workers if theyd like their place of employment shut down? You cant throw all these people out of work for the sake of your principles if you havent got an alternative for them.
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
Of course I and anyone else don't want these people to loose their jobs! What we want is for them to have a fair wage, and to work in fair conditions. I don't see how I or anyone else working in a richer country deserves more money than someone working equally as hard in a poorer country just because of where we were born.
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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Comrade, when I was a kid, my family was poor(get out the violins). Ive been working since I was 11. When I was an older teen (I was a big kid), in the summers, I worked off the books in the garment district unloading trucks. I worked like a beast of burden for 8 - 10 hours a day. At most back then I made $20 -$25 a day (yes this is in America). I desperately needed the money. Would I have liked being paid $25 an hour back then? Absolutely, but it wasnt going to happen. Ive been on the smelly end of the economic stick, I have an idea whats its like for these people in the 3rd world (although I know I was much better off than them), and most of these protesters have never done an honest days work in their lives. Theyre mostly middle and upper middle class kids whove been living off of mom and dads money, they are incapable of understanding how the real world functions. If all of a sudden you started paying these workers 1st world salaries, it would completely destabilise their countries economies and do more harm in the long term than it would do good in the short term.
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
These people do understand how there real world functions, and dislike it. I can not speak for your experiances, but it would not be a case of 'all of a sudden' at all. We anti-WTO types wish to the system change for the good of everyone.
h4ppy
You sir, pineapple?
If every country has the same wage laws then the companies would never give people over seas certain jobs, the reason is because of politics and public relations. They would pull out of less stable places and overall screw the workers in those countries over. You act like that amount of money is not a lot. It is to those people, food costs less over there, so do many other things.
Pontiuth Pilate
Republican Jesus!
The system entraps both the corporation and the worker: if the worker demands the actual minimum wage his country promises [by law], in other words, demands his rights, then the corporation moves labor to a country with no minimum wage, a lesser minimum wage, or which does not bother to enforce minimum wage.
What the third world really needs is a league of developing countries to demand - and enforce - a minimum wage across the board. But the temptation to leave such a group and offer corporations a lower wage would, of course, be too great to resist. In other words, there's no hope for the third world in the immediate future.
What the third world really needs is a league of developing countries to demand - and enforce - a minimum wage across the board. But the temptation to leave such a group and offer corporations a lower wage would, of course, be too great to resist. In other words, there's no hope for the third world in the immediate future.
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
Stuff doesn't cost less. In proportion, it costs alot more. People struggle just to buy food.
Perhaps you should actually do some research into the situation people in the third world live in.
And, if their was fair trade, poorer countires might not need the/so many overseas jobs because they would be able to sell their own goods at a decent price. Currently, poorer countries are unable to capitalise on their own natural resources because of the protectionism that the richer countries enforce through organisations such as the WTO.
h4ppy
You sir, pineapple?
By goods you of course mean natural reasources, which you mentioned. That is all those countries have, they don't have as many major companies that can afford to build factories and products. The established western companies have more technology, money, and equipment so that the people can't just start their own companies and start selling, they don't have enough money. If you think that the poor countries would be willing to triple their mininum wage then you are mistaken. By your logic you should go out to India and protest their instead. Besides like I said it gives forgein workers jobs, the fact that union members are out protesting is proof of this.
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
They don't need companies to build factories. There is such a thing as state ownership.
h4ppy
You sir, pineapple?
Where will the state get the money if not from the World bank and IMF. Since appearently those organizations are really bad then how else do you get the money.
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
Well you see these organisations only give loans if the countries agree to reduce public spending and open up their markets whilst privatising schools and hospitals (as I have already said in this thread.....
). When they lend money they do so with strings attached. They would be able to get money from sellign their goods. But to do that they need a fairer system, not this curerent one which is biased towards the rich countries.
amadeus
Apply directly to the forehead
They shouldn't lend ANY money and quit bailing countries out for screwing themselves up.
jack merchant
Internationalist
Not feasible, I'm afraid - you see, IMF loans come in place of commercial loans, so without IMF bailouts, western financial institutions might go bankrupt., and because of the interconnectedness of the international financial system, that might mean serious trouble.
We're not exactly bailing these countries out out of the goodness of our hearts here, it's every bit as much a matter of self-interest (just like the infamous rescue action of the Long-Term Capital Management hedge fund, by the way)!
The problem is almost that Western financial institutions keep making these risky loans because they know they'll be bailed out anyway - moral hazard plays a major role here !
h4ppy
You sir, pineapple?
Except for the farmer who killed himself and acouple others who fought with cops, just like I said they would.
