WW2-Global

[Equuleus]

They had 90.
It would be 2 BF 109s.

I think having them at the start only is best.

On the French maybe we need "what if" advanced French units.

A possible solution is for the Scenario to start in 1940 on the eve of the invasion of Norway and Denmark.

 

[Equuleus]

Finland should not have BF 109s in this scenario.
Germany did not give them bf 109s until 1943.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Starting in 1940 would fix a number of issues, but would be a significant change, requiring a great deal of adjustment. There is also potential in that set of circumstances for an automatic Barbarossa from the start, or a Soviet attack. Somewhat troublesome on those counts.

There would need to be adjustment for new weapons systems, unit deployments and removal of units and ships that had been destroyed in that time.

They are not mountains that cannot be climbed, but the question of whether they should be is up to the main bloke.

The problem with 'what-if' advanced French units is that there weren't a great many that weren't simply napkinwaffe. There could be units that would be advanced in late 1940 or 1941, but beyond then, it is in the territory of the unknown.

I recall the statement that unit inclusion was effectively limited to things which actually came into existance. Of course, if we are to use the logic of the presence of Lion and the Hindenburg, an argument could be advanced for Alsace. Unlikely, though, given the start time and the fact that the Richelieus are not yet completed.

 

[The Dragonlord]

Simon Darkshade

Most of the wonders in cities are there as an anti-razing measure & it works pretty well. However, once you have wonders producing gov't or country specific units then the AI WILL raze those cities when captured because the wonder will disappear & it has & will cause problems worse than the way things are now.

Also, the limit for buildings is only 256 & most have already been used & in answer to your question the 512 limit for cities has already been reached.

The Dragonlord

 

[Rocoteh]

511 cities have been placed in version 2.4.

My policy is to have at least one city in reserve.

Rocoteh

 

[Robert01]

Dear Rocoteh

I think most players agree that many of the cities in the middle nowhere
can be cut out in favor of adding more important cities like the Pacific Islands,A city in northern Greece,another city in the UK etc.
[But mainly in the Pacific.]

What do you think of my idea to limit the population of Pacific Islands with my terrain combo idea?

 

[The Dragonlord]

Rocoteh

In my reply to Simon when I wrote "will cause problems worse than the way things are now" I was referring to his perceived view to me of what he was complaining about. But I think this is a great scenario & all we are doing is suggesting tweaks to it. And if you hadn't done such an awesome job of creating it this thread would have closed long ago.

Thank you for all the hours of enjoyment you have given us. And also for stimulating all of our creative thinking.

The Dragonlord

 

[The Dragonlord]

Robert01

Whenever a city is removed if the surrounding cities culture cannot be expanded enough to fill the holes & maintain the borders the resulting problems can be more than cosmetic.Ownership of territory determines movement & worker improvements among other things. Trying to be historical & realistic in one area can mean being the opposite in another. The limitations of the CivIII engine & design means there have to be compromises in order for the scenario to come as close to history as it has.Personally I think Europe has enough cities as it is now.

The Dragonlord

 

[Robert01]

Most players would not mind a "hole" in the middle of the Amazon or the Sahara if it would mean adding many of the important Pacific islands.
And with my terrain combo idea the Pacific islands population will stay at 1.

 

[Aecon]

They had 90.
It would be 2 BF 109s.

I think having them at the start only is best.

On the French maybe we need "what if" advanced French units.

On an earlier version I modified the minor nations to reflect some of the variations in equiptment. Tactically it made a minor difference; Strategically it made no difference at all. The most successful test for me is allowing for an upgrade to the Standard "fighter" to "'41 fighter," ie. 4(2)-4-4-1 to 6(4)-6-4-1 for minor nations which survive long enough to advance to build this plane. It had a minor effect in a war between Brazil and Argentina.
Another note: though the minor nation may have had better equiptment, they may not have had the superior organization or training that also reflects the numbers.

On building railroads - IMO Eliminating the ability to build railroads should not necessarily eliminate lines like the very developed USA Transcontinental or British Home Islands. Any additional railroads may be eliminated.
In my playtest ver2.3 USA Sid I had to build over 300 workers to finish the railroad in 84 turns! I still feel if one wants to spend that amount in resources to create the effect perhaps it should be allowed.

Regarding holes in remote areas. The main argument is historical accuracy vs useful city placement. I believe that a third reason is actually more important than either of these which is the attempt to win the game by domination! It forces all alliances to conquer 65% of the Population (which is easier) and 60% of the land mass! Without the amount of territory held by the artificial influence of the remote cities, this would be much easier.

Final Comment - As has been pointed out to me by others; This is a strategic game and not a wargame. If a change results in a strategic enhancement to gameplay, it is significant; or else it must just be placed for flavor without making other issues unbalanced. I will try on my next playtest
(probably Italy, or Finland Sid with an enhanced German economy) to help to determine how best to prod the AI to be more aggressive without being reckless.

 

[Equuleus]

I do not think foreign production is a good idea except for France but I think that foreign units already there in 1939 should be added.

BTW Switzerland's Air Force did have good organization.
If the nazis had invaded Switzerland they have met some resistance from the Swiss Air Force.This would not have stoped the nazis but it would have given the Luftwaffe a bloody nose.

On holes vs important cities I think the Pacific islands are more important than a few holes.
The following cities can be removed with little or no impact on borders.
1.Puerto Acre in western Brazil.
2.Pretoria in South Africa
3.Gao in French North Africa if the culture of Kindal is maxed it is just a small hole and the border with Libya is not messed up.
4.Fort Chipewyart

This equals 5 spare cities and then we can debate on what the most important cities are IMHO I think they should all go for Pacific islands.

On domination victory I don't think cutting out a few cities will make that much of a difference.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Simon Darkshade

Most of the wonders in cities are there as an anti-razing measure & it works pretty well. However, once you have wonders producing gov't or country specific units then the AI WILL raze those cities when captured because the wonder will disappear & it has & will cause problems worse than the way things are now.

Also, the limit for buildings is only 256 & most have already been used & in answer to your question the 512 limit for cities has already been reached.

The Dragonlord

If there was no solution to that impasse apart from the prepositioning of wonders, then it would be an issue. However, recent developments seem to have opened a potential way to sideline this as an issue; from what I have seen using the methods in question, and from the reports of others, it seems to have great working utility.

As to one complaining, I reject the characterization. Rather, I seek to explore an issue by examining a whole range of related ideas. When these are taken out of context, they lose meaning. In all circumstances, they are musings. The notion of unit production wonders was only one of a number of ideas presented in combination in order to address an AI limitation.

The matter of cities came up as a method of increasing difficulty for the German human player, among other fringe benefits and explorations of directions the engine can be pushed in. The issue of borders and culture is a significant one, but ultimately peripheral; there are ways and means that have been employed to approach the matter from a variety of perspectives for more than one possible solution.

The important word is "if", as in "Whenever a city is removed if the surrounding cities culture cannot be expanded enough..." Obviously any exploration of the issue would ensure that such a predicament was comfortably ameliorated.

 

[Equuleus]

How do you cut out worker abilities?
I am moding this scenario for my personal use.
After I am done I will share a list of the changes I made.

P.S.
I think I may add to Tripoli a wonder that auto produces panzer 3s. What would be a good production rate?

 

[Equuleus]

An idea to get the German AI to attack Denmark and Norway.
Place 1 Denmark garrison in German territory.When they don't move it the Germans will declare war.

 

[Equuleus]

Can someone suggest what Pacific islands I should add to my mod.

 

[Equuleus]

BTW Tarawa should be part of the UK right?

 

[Equuleus]

Here is what I have done so far in my mod.
1.Un land locked Philadelphia
2.Add 1 polish sub.
3.Renamed Soloman Island Guadalcanal. Renamed Radom Krakow. Remaned Bagdad Baghdad. Renamed Batavia Jakarta .
4.I cut of the tip of Denmark @194 50 so Sweden cant block it.
5.I put mines west of Malmö to keep Swedish Navy from attacking Copenhagen.
6.We add 2 BF 109s for Switzerland & 1 BF 109 to Yugoslavia.
7.Added a US airbase SW of London with 1 flak and 1 special fortress.
8.I added Tripoli Wonder and allow Air & Sea trade.
9.I put the no raze patch in.
10.Cut Gao. Cut Puerto Acre. Cut York Factory. Cut Fort Chipewyart.
11.Added Cebu. Added Midway with barracks,airport, and coatal fortress pop 1 and 2 Special fortress.
Added Wake with pop 1 coastal fortress & 1 Special fortress. Added Tarawa 1 Special fortress.
Added Palau 2 Special fortress.
12.Put victory locations in Midway,Wake,Palua,Tarawa,Manila,Cebu,Davao,Singapore,Palembang,Jakarta,Padang,
Banjarmasin,Hanoi,Saigon,Hong Kong,Paris,Oslo,
13.Minefield hp bonus of 20.
14.Yugoslavia,Greece,and Norway Denmark part of allies.
15.Put 3 German Special fortress on border with Yugoslavia.
16Added 1 Special fortress to each Japanese home island city.
17 added 5 Special fortress in the country to protect Yugoslavia from axis minors.
18.Added 1 light tank conscript to Poland.

 

[Stazro]

Ewww, just for info, there is an edit-function so there's no need for five posts in a row...

 

[Equuleus]

I'm sorry.

 

[Baldurslayer]

Hi there,

I just came across Scapa Flow ... that truly bloody city has a sam battery how the ... should I take that little .... (ice cold little bunch of Islands - sorry different other war )

The only way to take that city at all is to send in wave after wave of infantry from transports. or wait until a large fleet of capital ships is around to do some serious bombardment (Scapa Flow is also a major airbase thus one has to destroy all those aircraft first)

Two or three forts will make it hard to take but the Sam battery just takes the biscuit

All the best