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[SCENARIO] WWII Lite

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by D551, Jul 15, 2020.

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  1. D551

    D551 Warlord

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    Most recent update Version 2.5.9
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/wwii-lite.28403/

    World War II Lite Version 2.5.5
    This WWII Scenario was built off of my first WWII world map scenario. https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/world-war-ii-world-map.17121/

    The No Raze city, No City limit, No Unit limit Patch is suggested for this scenario.

    I have made quite a few changes, it may as well be a brand new scenario.
    My main goal for this scenario is to create a world map WWII scenario that has a balance between being realistic and efficient (efficient in the way it runs). One of my biggest bouts with large map scenarios is the IBT (in between turns) time. Although these scenarios can be the most realistic and detailed.
    I also wanted to incorporate features from other successful WWII scenarios that I really enjoyed and made for a good game. I will list the scenarios and their creators to give as much credit as I can.
    WW2 Global by Rocoteh https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ww2-global-gold.454734/
    World War II (The World) by leihard7777 https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/world-war-ii-the-world.27717/
    World War II European Front https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/world-war-ii-european-front.445535/
    WW2 Westeurope 1940 - 1945 https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/ww2-westeurope-1940-1945.26346/
    WWII in the Pacific Conquest

    Also a special thanks to Civfanatics user Stew pid for your help behind the scenes, with figuring out unit stats and placement on the tech tree. Along with plenty of scenario advice and suggestions.

    Some of the base changes that I have made to reduce waiting time include the following:

    Spoiler Faster IBT changes :

    -Removed air and water trade from harbors and airports.
    Special pre-placed "air trade" buildings are the replacement for this to limit the amount of trade that goes on. This significantly reduces wait times.
    These buildings can be rebuilt with the air trade resource being within city limits in the case the improvement is destroyed from bombings.
    This resource is generally placed under the city.
    -Trade embargoes has been removed
    -All Tech trading has been removed.
    -Some maintenance costs have been removed.
    -Smaller world map
    Kal-Els 180x180 World map was used to reduce the overall size of the map, but it also maintains a large amount of detail for the size that it is.
    Europe had the detail and size that would still enable some decent game play.
    Hypnotechs water color terrain pack added to increase efficiency? I'm not completely sure if that really makes a difference or not.


    Major changes that were made to clean up previous scenario:
    Spoiler Clean up changes :

    -Cities moved and renamed
    I went through and re-located almost every city and renamed them accordingly to what I deemed to be most accurate.
    You will notice that there were some liberties taken with cities in Germany/Austria/Czechoslovakia/Romania/Bulgaria, I found it difficult to align everything up properly, so they are probably not the most accurate but I think it all works out.
    -85 some odd Units added from version 1.9
    -Unit stats rework. I put together a spreadsheet and went through most all the units and adjusted stats.
    -The tech tree was completely re-done, including some new tech icons. I will note, I created most of the black and white photo tech icons for my original scenario back in 2010.




    Spoiler Innovations :

    -I added quite a few buildings that produce units:
    Infantry mobilization offices, tank factories, airplane factories, DAK HQ, DAK Panzergruppe, ANZAC reinforcements for Egypt, Lend lease buildings, Mountain division buildings, U-boat pens, combat engineer school, Flammenwerfer school.

    -There were some changes made to the geography, mainly in north Africa/Mediterranean to increase level of detail and to give more game play for the North African theater of war.
    Added more cities to coast of North Africa: Tobruk and El Alamein, and placed victory point locations in both of those and in Benghazi and El Angelia to incite more conflict in the area.
    -Afrika Corp German city placed near Tripoli to represent the German reinforcements in North Africa. This city also produces desert infantry and panzers.
    -Gave Germany control of Norway.
    -Changed up locked alliances, France no longer belongs to any alliance, but a trigger submarine is set so Germany will go to war with France if they don't initiate it right away. This also leaves France to join the axis, (Vichy France) also potentially allows operation catapult to occur, with Britain attacking the French navy in Oran.
    -Created communist locked alliance, USSR and Mongolia. Got the idea from another WWII scenario.
    -Germany is set to trigger a war with the USSR also with trigger submarines. and vice versa.
    -Iraq received aid from Germany, including some planes and pilots. These were placed in Baghdad.




    Locked Alliances:
    Allies are locked at war with the Axis.

    Allies:
    United States
    Great Britain
    Canada
    CW-British
    CW-Australia
    China
    Netherlands
    Belgium
    Brazil
    Mexico

    Axis:
    Germany
    Italy
    Japan
    Scandinavia (Finland/Sweden)
    Iraq

    Communist:
    USSR
    Mongolia

    I also made adjustments with some countries:
    -Great Britain was split up into several countries to reduce amount of micro managing, and to reduce corruption.
    Great Britain comprises the British isles, Egypt, Sudan, Nigeria, Kuwait, Cyprus, Malta, Gibraltar, West Indies Islands, Falklands, Reykjavik, and probably a few other small cities.
    British India, also includes South Africa.
    Australia is CW-Australia, also includes any British Pacific islands, and Burma.
    Canada is its own country.

    -Finland and Sweden were combined and placed on the Axis locked alliance.
    -Yugoslavia(Zagreb) was combined with Greece.
    -Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, and Chile were combined into the country South America.
    -I combined Spain and Portugal.

    Time line considerations:
    Europe starts just before Germany invades France, May 1940.
    North Africa starts just as the German Afrika corps is deployed Feb. 1941
    Pacific theater/United States, set just as Japan bombs Pearl Harbor. Dec. 1941 (I did set up the Japanese fleet near Honolulu, most of the time Japan will bomb Pearl Harbor.)

    This is definitely not a complete scenario, there is plenty of work to do with the civilopedia, and other fine tuning with unit placement and balancing.

    Here is the download link:
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/wwii-lite.28403/

    start US2.jpg US tech tree2.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  2. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    D551, I think it´s a pitty that in a week you haven´t received any reply for all the modding work you have done with this scenario, especially considering all the civers who requested C3C WW2 scenarios in the last months. I think your scenario can become a handsome WW2 scenario for all civers with weaker pcs. :)
     
  3. Snodmaulvenn

    Snodmaulvenn Chieftain

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    Hi, i have tried it a little, didnt look all the map, it runs fast. I dont like how Zagreb city is placed and as a greek civ. Yugoslavia should have been speratate from Greece, with three cities. There are no Waffen ss units anymore, there is no panzer 4 tank factory in Berlin anymore.
     
  4. D551

    D551 Warlord

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    Thank you for the reply! I have been checking this page quite often. :lol: Though I have received quite a few downloads so that has been great. Much appreciated.


    Snodmaulvenn, with the size of Europe on this map, It would be difficult to add all three cities. And to add an additional civ when Yugoslavia and Greece were both attacked at the same time in history, the current layout seemed more efficient. Also, there is a panzer IV tank factory in Leipzig. I don't recall the reasoning of the placement, but it does exist! If I get around to the SS units, that would be great, there are other basics to this scenario that I would like to take care of first. Thank you for your post!

    Here is a screenshot from Civ edit.

    Yugoslavia and Greece.PNG
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  5. D551

    D551 Warlord

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    I am interested in seeing what everyone thinks about the victory conditions. The game is currently set for individual victory conditions. I have tried coalition victory before, but that seems to really change how the game balances, and if another civ in your alliance starts to do poorly, the game can become very hopeless fast. In my opinion. What does everyone think?
     
  6. D551

    D551 Warlord

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    I failed to mention user Stew Pid in my original post. I have updated this.
     
  7. Snodmaulvenn

    Snodmaulvenn Chieftain

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    Panzer 4 tanks are overpowered against soviets in 1940, due to trigger subs its unavoidable to delay the war. So if the war between soviets and germans will be triggered in 1940, maybe 1940 panzer 4 should be dissempowered and without blitz, or soviets should get some kv1 tanks with extra hitpoints.

    Germans can very easily rush soviets in the 1940.

    So i think you should add a short barrlel panzer 4 tank as a starting tank and disempower it to be more ballanced with the bt tank and the long barrel panzer 4 tank would be available in armored tactics tech to counter t-34.
    Soviets should have better tanks than germans until germans get tigers and panthers, in heavy weapons tech.

    Turn done time is very fast.
     
  8. D551

    D551 Warlord

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    Awesome! this is great feedback. I have spent a lot of time trying to find a good balance between Germany and the Soviets. And I think the time scale should be adjusted so its more accurate to when Operation Barbarossa actually starts. Or find a way to delay the trigger subs more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  9. D551

    D551 Warlord

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    Also, what difficulty were you playing on?
     
  10. Snodmaulvenn

    Snodmaulvenn Chieftain

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    Emperor difficulty. Yesterday i played again as soviet, before the game i removed the trigger subs and Mongolia from an alliance because i didn’t want an ally to trigger any war, i set Germany alone and Japan alone. So i played (farmed) 6 hours, on the first move i switched from communism to democracy, after 50 turns i lost because Germany won on points.

    So Germany was fighting all the time and still it was ahead of soviets in tech, tanks quality and production number. At about turn 45, Germany had 50 panthers, and some tigers, while conquering Europe, Africa, Turkey and Iraq. The whole 45 turns i was investing maximum (60%) in science and minimum (10%) in entertainment.

    I thought i will get ahead with buying infrastructure and massive cities. T-34 factory in Magnitogorsk didn’t produce tanks, in editor, required goods in radius is marked. And maybe make it produce on three or five turns.

    T- 34 is overpowered, and costs too much. It has same stats as panther. T-34 should have stats between panzer 4 and panther, maybe A15 D10 HP2 and cost around 100 because of mass production.

    Germany is overpowered against soviets, if the war starts right at the beginning.

    Maybe place trigger subs on random places in ocean and coasts. Time should go more slow so that its not 1945 after 50 turns.

    I also tried to make ww2 scenario like this, with a big Europe unproportional to the world, but i have given it up because its too tedious to do., so i have added it if someone wants to continue it.
     

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  11. D551

    D551 Warlord

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    Thank you Snodmaulvenn for this feedback. These are the details that I definitely need to get the balance between Germany and USSR. Yes I can sympathize with you that a world map WW2 scenario is very tedious, and is very difficult to get all the details just right to make things work the way you want. I'll have a look at your scenario! The larger Europe is a very cool idea and makes a lot of sense. I'll have a look at your unit stats as well.
    Thanks again!
     
  12. Snodmaulvenn

    Snodmaulvenn Chieftain

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    I played another game with unchanged scenario with soviet civ, emperor difficulty, this time i switched to war eco in first turn and only produced army. I lost only one front city and reduced panzer numbers in the first 15 turns. Past games that i lost was because i kept katyushas inside of cities and lost them to tanks, this time i removed them behind the cities because they have so much movement points. I didnt yet finish the game, but i think that when germans loose the panzers its over.

    Just wanted to say i was to quick with my assessment that the soviets are underpowered, however if an ai would play soviets i still think it would lose against the germans, because ai wouldn’t move all troops in the front cities at the beginning, wouldn’t produce only bombardment units in most productive cities with a goal to knock out all panzers and wouldn’t hide katyushas after the bombardment.

    For the best balance game would have to be specifically set for a civ that a player chooses .

    So now i have changed my mind and i think that the germans are underpowered against soviets, if the soviets are not played by a computer.

    Germans should start with more fighter planes in front cities, because i knocked out allot of panzers with bombers, and lost only two bombers.

    I think that all tanks should be without blitz with a single movement point. Only germans would get blitz in armored tactics tech. Soviets should have three t-34 factories behind in Magnitogorsk that would start pumping out 1 tank per turn when soviets get armored tactics tech. In armored tactcs tech should be a special resource that only soviets wold get and would be necessary for factories operation, that would trigger them when tech is reached. So that when germans get panthers, losses ratio would be 1 panther vs 5 t-34. If the war will start as it does soviets should already have t-34 and some kv1. Germans should start with short barrel panzer 4 that would have similar stats to soviet bt and get long barrel panzer 4 in armored tactics. Germans would start with panther factory that would be triggered when armored tactics is reached.

    I will post more thoughts after i play some more.
     

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  13. Snodmaulvenn

    Snodmaulvenn Chieftain

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    I continued with this game, first thing, i was wrong when i said that this is unchanged scenario, this one i have chnaged when we were talking about Yugoslavia having more cities, so i wanted to add three but i only managed to add two, Ljubljana and Split, also i added Trieste and moved Vienna, so in this scenario germans have played with Vienna without buildings inside and Italy with Trieste without buildings inside. The rest was unchanged.

    So i have played 14 turns and Germany is about to be defeated, i knocked out all tanks and took Bucharest so Germany is without oil and cant produce no more tanks. So if a player plays as a Soviet Union then Soviet Union is overpowered against the Germans, if a pc would play Soviet Union then Germany would win, for reasons i have mentioned and also pc wouldn't prioritze connecting cities with railroad.

    I built about 70 divisional guns, and invaded over the mountain near Sophia, with some machine guns for defense. Didn't play iron man, i had to reload couple of times.

    Some more thoughts, oil field near Bucharest should be under the city or else its to easy to disable Germany. Germany should get more bunkers with lots of hit points in eastern cities and more fighter planes that dont' have ability to relocate.
    For Soviet side i think they also need more bunkers in Saratov and Stalingrad and two more t-34 factories behind the Ural. With this settings i think germans can pump 3 to 4 panzers per turn. Japan and Scandinavia didn't cause any troubles. Japan also needs to be overpowered i think.

    Another thing that happened was, that Mongolia made peace with the Germans, and my units were auto removed from enemy territory.

    Didn't yet play german side, but i remember when i did the un lite version, soviets had lots of tanks, every turn 5 to 7 new showed up on two fronts, but i didn't fight them from the start.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  14. D551

    D551 Warlord

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    Excellent. I have been doing a lot of work on this scenario, as I want to smooth out as much as possible before my next update. The biggest thing so far has been re-working all of the tank stats. I'll attach a snip of my spreadsheet and see what everyone thinks. I think with this re balanced, this should help with the German/Soviet front
     
  15. D551

    D551 Warlord

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    Here are those screenshots of the new tank stats



    Light tanks.PNG medium tank and heavy tank.PNG
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  16. Snodmaulvenn

    Snodmaulvenn Chieftain

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    Some thoughts, Tiger 2 should cost more like 300, and have 15D (160 that is like every second turn from most productive city), T-34 should cost less, like 70 maybe, so to be more of them and be produced from three factories 1 per turn when armored tactics is reached, Panther i think should only be produced from a factory when armored tactics is reached, or else a player and maybe pc also wont build Panzer 4G. Soviets should also have one KV1 factory and start with some kv1, when Soviets reach armored tactics they should flood the map with t-34 and become a trouble for Germans.
     
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  17. D551

    D551 Warlord

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    I have been working quite a bit lately, trying to get things balanced with USSR and Germany. I have a potential concept that I think could be the solution here. I found a glacier unit that could be used to represent the Russian winter. This would be an immobile and invisible unit with a high defense value and HP. Here is a screenshot of my first run through with the concept.
    *side note, I did find a blizzard unit, but it is so large, with how many I would be using, they would be blocking quite a bit of the map.

    Does anyone have any feedback on this concept?

    Here is a list of a few of the other concepts I have been working on:

    added "rough pacific sea" LM terrain for an area in the pacific with a 3 movement cost. This should help with the pacific scaling issues. (Japan is too close to US mainland)

    Changed max population for cities to 21, to reduce pollution.
    Removed all pollution from factories
    Added lend lease buildings in USSR, they produce M3 Lee tanks and P-39 Airacobra fighter planes.

    Added city Myitkyina in burma, changed roads to match the actual "Burma Road" route.

    Made Desert impassible
    removed the ability to build roads on mountians

    Removed warpstorm watercolor terrain. I was unable to notice a difference in gameplay speed between terrain types.

    Updated fortress/barricade graphics


    Russian winter.png
     
  18. D551

    D551 Warlord

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    UPDATE version 2.5.8
    Download here


    For this next update, there are quite a few major changes, resulting in a far more satisfactory product. One of the main issues with the previous version was the pace at which the scenario progresses. It seemed that all was said and done after 90 turns or so, which was very dissapointing. To fix this issue, I decided to make some major changes with how roads/railroads work. I went off of what Civinator was using in his storm over Europe scenario, and applied it to WWII Lite. I removed railroads completely, and replaced the road graphics with the railroad graphics. Then reduced the movement on roads from 3 tiles to 2. This also helped to scale the movement of units to the scale of the map. Next I did some research regarding actual railroad routes that existed during WWII. Then I removed all roads, and placed roads as close to its historical placement. I then went through the map, and replaced all regular terrain with its LM counterpart. Except for where all roads were located. I then changed the Terraform bonuses for the road on the LM terrain from 1 to 0. This blocks all roads from being constructed on the LM tiles. I also had to remove the worker job of cutting down forests, as this would result in LM forests revealing regular grassland which would allow a worker to build a road there. Credit for this idea of course goes to Civinator and his storm over europe scenario.

    I also realized that after re-doing my tech tree several times over, I forgot to go back through and adjust the research costs accordingly. That also had a large impact on the pace of the scenario.

    I also added an additional tech, Heavy Tanks to allow all heavy tanks such as the Tiger II to be built. There was definately an issue with tanks in the late game, and I think these changes make a big difference. I really liked how leihard7777 handled late game tanks in his World War II scenario, but I wanted heavy tanks to be made available in a separate tech. I made the Heavy Tanks tech require Heavy weapons. I then added additional tanks to be availible in the Heavy Weapons tech, like in leihard7777's scenario, such as the M4A3 Sherman tank.

    Spoiler Tech Tree :
    WWII World war II tech.png


    After making these changes, I had to re-evaluate the time scale, which already had issues. I set the game length to 220 turns, and by turn 220, you will hit year 1945, around week 33.

    I also changed the trigger subs for Germany and USSR, so that war wont be triggered until 1941. After making this change, I also had to reduce the number of units for USSR, as to not put them to far ahead of Germany when war is triggered. Also I decided after making that time gap larger, I gave France more starting units to draw out the invasion of France. This should take about 7-10 turns for Germany to take over mainland France. I also made some changes with the starting Panzer tanks for Germany. I added panzer I's II's and III's and mixed them into the German invasion force. The buildable Panzer at the start of the game is the Panzer IV D (short barrel). After making these changes I renamed the pre existing long barrel panzer to Panzer IV G and made it available with Armored Tactics. I then moved the Panther tank to be available with Heavy Weapons.

    While running the scenario in Debug mode as a 1 city civ on an island, I found a solution to make the United States get more involved in overseas conflict. I noticed that there were very few cargo ships being built, so I created the cargo ship dry dock. This improvement builds heavy cargo ships, and wont start producing them until you research Naval tactics due to the dry dock resource that is required within the city radius. After making that change, I found dozens of Heavy cargo ships just sitting full of units, so I made another dry dock improvement to produce destroyers. After adding that, the US AI was executing operation torch and D-day! Running the scenario from this neutral position showed that there was a lot more balance in the game, especially with victory points. At least between the US, USSR, Great Britian, Germany, and Japan.

    Spoiler Allied invasion of Europe :
    allied invasion.png


    Spoiler Victory points :
    USSR victory plus 17 turns.jpg


    In addition, to add another layer of realism, I added a "Russian winter" unit, a glacier, and scattered it along the maximum extent the Germans made with operation Barbarossa. They are immobile and have the zone of control box checked. I first placed them in a solid line, but this seemed to hinder the German AI to make any effort at all to push further into Russia. To fix that, I scattered them more, and made plenty of gaps to allow german units to get through without the need to attack the winter units. But with zone of control, they will most likely sustain some damage on the way through.

    That about sums up the major adjustments, let me know what you think of these changes. I really think the scenario is at a totally different place after this update.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
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  19. Normal Person

    Normal Person Chieftain

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    This look like a extremely interesting scenario, also im new so hi :thumbsup:
     
  20. D551

    D551 Warlord

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    Thank you for your post and interest Normal Person! I will be posting my next update very soon!
     

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