WW2-Global
- Thread starter Rocoteh
- Start date
Equuleus
King
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 928
I have an idea.
I think the answer is lower attack rather than more defense.
1.It will make naval battles more realistic.
2.If ships have lower attack values the AI my make less of them.
3.I don't think increasing defense is a good idea because it is already hard enough for bombers to sink battle ships.
I think the answer is lower attack rather than more defense.
1.It will make naval battles more realistic.
2.If ships have lower attack values the AI my make less of them.
3.I don't think increasing defense is a good idea because it is already hard enough for bombers to sink battle ships.
That is a good idea. Again, especially Battleships already are so strong, that taking off some of that attack won't really make a difference on the effectiveness of them against weaker units, but against Battleships it would make a lot more sense, as it would be possible for the defending battleship to actually win. I have never seen a defending Battleship win against another Battleship, have you?
OK, once again:
So called historical production will produce unrealistic results!
You must always have in mind how the game-engine works.
That is: very high unrealistic losses.
Thus historical production with extreme losses will result in minimum armies.
Rocoteh
Vericitas
Chieftain
@Equuleus:
I don´t know what kind of problem you have. The scenario is one of the best (maybe the best) i have ever played! Every week you have new changes for this one. Respect that you want to make it better, but changeing it to brigade level is a bit exaggerated.
Can´t you just sit in front of your computer and relax? If it´s your opinion that this mod is unrealistic, create your own one!!!
Sorry for my english.
Vericitas
I don´t know what kind of problem you have. The scenario is one of the best (maybe the best) i have ever played! Every week you have new changes for this one. Respect that you want to make it better, but changeing it to brigade level is a bit exaggerated.
Can´t you just sit in front of your computer and relax? If it´s your opinion that this mod is unrealistic, create your own one!!!
Sorry for my english.
Vericitas
West 36
Can count up to 4
Yeah, and his ideas tend to be pretty good and add alittle more to the whole thing. Rocoteh isn't quite able to keep making updates right now, so Equuleus is just doing what he thinks is right, and I like it, most of the time. Just because something is great doesn't mean it shouldn't be even greater.
and @ Vericitas- your english is fine!
and @ Vericitas- your english is fine!
Vericitas
Chieftain
Thank you, West 36!
Baldurslayer
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
- Messages
- 130
Well I have lost a good deal of BBs to the defensive qualities of my enemies, granted, a human player is smart enough to reduce the risk of such an occurrence. One shouldn't forget that water has an defensive bonus as well thus improving the defensive stats of the defender. The German side has the huge advantage of cutting edge BBs but when playing other nations you do have to prepare your attack by bombardment (air and/or sea) prior to the ship to ship combat in order to reduce losses.
I started a sid game as Germany for fun and out of the blue by the end of 1941 Denmark/Norway declared war on the Reich ... it was quite a sight when Norway threw its infantry in vast numbers at German held Murmansk
(facing 50+ units in a confined space is a sight to be remembered)(I had given Norway a railroad system and 2.5 years of peace gave the AI a chance to build up their troops). Needless to say, they did not accomplish much against the Stugs but I did enjoy the defensive posture quite a bit since it is not that common while playing as Germany.
I gave the Soviets some railroads too and it greatly helped the AI to put some meaning behind the term shock troops, displaying some early territorial gains.
bottom line
Rocoteh, your scenario never ceases to amaze me
All the best
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
I have seen defending battleships win against their opposite numbers. I usually play as Great Britain, so the RN doesn't fall under my stewardship. Under that of the AI, it will use its ships in the same manner as every other nation - in a blind all out charge. It was that which made me contemplate the idea of a fleet in being.
As for making the German invasion of England harder (will not mention mythical oceanic cat), a few ideas:
Restrict production of transports to an autoproduction wonder, or to captured French ports. Maybe even Norwegian cities.
Implement 'fleet in being' terrain tweaking, so that the Kriegsmarine heavy surface units cannot sortie until Norway is completely seized. Limit the movement of KM battleships, battlecruisers, heavy and light cruiser and even destroyers to certain types of oceanic terrain; they have to creep up the Norwegian coast to break out into the sealanes...perhaps a 'North Sea' terrain. I've outlined the idea previously, and it uses a notion derived from Rhys of Civilisation.
Perhaps something similar could be contemplated for Italy...they could do with a trigger situation, as well as methods to stop the RM from being frittered away idly.
Add immobile Coastal Artillery units for Great Britain.
Add Vanguards and Super Lions, along with relevant cruiser and destroyer types.
One or more of these ideas may help. The ideal situation is that even the AI should be able to make Mythical Ocean Cat a difficult proposition.
As for making the German invasion of England harder (will not mention mythical oceanic cat), a few ideas:
Restrict production of transports to an autoproduction wonder, or to captured French ports. Maybe even Norwegian cities.
Implement 'fleet in being' terrain tweaking, so that the Kriegsmarine heavy surface units cannot sortie until Norway is completely seized. Limit the movement of KM battleships, battlecruisers, heavy and light cruiser and even destroyers to certain types of oceanic terrain; they have to creep up the Norwegian coast to break out into the sealanes...perhaps a 'North Sea' terrain. I've outlined the idea previously, and it uses a notion derived from Rhys of Civilisation.
Perhaps something similar could be contemplated for Italy...they could do with a trigger situation, as well as methods to stop the RM from being frittered away idly.
Add immobile Coastal Artillery units for Great Britain.
Add Vanguards and Super Lions, along with relevant cruiser and destroyer types.
One or more of these ideas may help. The ideal situation is that even the AI should be able to make Mythical Ocean Cat a difficult proposition.
Well I usually play as Germany, and after losing the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau I only have Bismarcks left, of which now I have 4 by the way.
And they never lose a battle, although often get damaged so badly that I need to pull them back into the next harbor.
About the tanks, I think maybe making them a little more expensive would be a good idea. It's week 36 of 1940 and I have 88 Panzer IIIes now. I just wonder about the Russians, they don't seem able to make any kind of bigger tank yet, and if I attacked now, they wouldn't have any kind of chance. I mean, they have hundreds of infantry, and a bunch of their little soviet tank divisions, but nothing else worth mentioning. Even on Sid level, Germany can get unproportionately strong very quickly. But then again, it also depends on the player, I guess. Again, I didn't allocate any money to research for the first 40 turns, so I had a lot of money to hurry production of tanks.
By the way, England has lost all its presence in Europe last week, except for Gibraltar, which I am going to ignore for now.
And they never lose a battle, although often get damaged so badly that I need to pull them back into the next harbor.
About the tanks, I think maybe making them a little more expensive would be a good idea. It's week 36 of 1940 and I have 88 Panzer IIIes now. I just wonder about the Russians, they don't seem able to make any kind of bigger tank yet, and if I attacked now, they wouldn't have any kind of chance. I mean, they have hundreds of infantry, and a bunch of their little soviet tank divisions, but nothing else worth mentioning. Even on Sid level, Germany can get unproportionately strong very quickly. But then again, it also depends on the player, I guess. Again, I didn't allocate any money to research for the first 40 turns, so I had a lot of money to hurry production of tanks.
By the way, England has lost all its presence in Europe last week, except for Gibraltar, which I am going to ignore for now.
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
Great Britain never does seem to exert a great presence in Europe in the vanilla version of WW2G.
It does seem incongruous for battlewagons to survive on such a repeated basis. The Golden Twinkie is always a threat.
Maybe revising the Swordfish attack and lethality factors may curb any extreme situations of the ease of RN demise.
My usual strategy as Great Britain is to let the KM sortie and attrit them on the way up the North Sea with destroyers, subs and cruisers. Home Fleet hits them off Edinburgh/Rosyth - attacks by the Fleet Air Arm intensify, heavy cruisers bombard, destroyers go in with torpedoes, the battlecruiser squadron rakes them and then the main battle squadrons go for the kill. Mop up supplied by the RAF. End result: No one screws with the Andrew on home turf.
Courageous, Glorious and Ark Royal then sent to the Med along with the QEs and Royal Oak, and a large portion of Countys. Nelson, Rodney, Renown and Hood remain at Scapa and Edinburgh, with Repulse off to the Far East.
The RM is attrited by its clashes with the MN and by airstrikes concentrating on heavier units. Force H heads for Malta and rendevous with the Mediterranean Fleet. Resultant battleforce operates against RM in Eastern Med, where basic tactics whittle down the enemy numbers.
Once the reinforcements arrive, all force combined and begin to hunt down remainder of RM and bombard the Italian mainland and North Africa. In the latter case, the sheer concentration of bombardment enables a swift advance by the Western Desert Force. Indeed, convoys with 2AIF onboard can be diverted to Malaya.
Once the Med is in hand, QEs go east, along with 3 Rs. Hood and Renown leave as KGVs come online, and these also head east eventually. Significantly, Force A, as the Eastern Fleet has been dubbed by me, does not venture beyond Trinco before the entire carrier force, loaded with effective fighters, is ready to go.
There is no real pressing need for a maximum effort in the battle of the Atlantic, with no vital convoys coming from Canada and particularly the United States. Those which do need to get through have heavy destroyer and cruiser escort, along with a battleship.
Therefore, it is not outside of the realms of possibility to do quite well as Great Britain, given that the main weapon of the KM does not sit astride the national jugular. Pity.
The IJN never seems to deploy in an ultra-aggressive manner, although this may be only personal anecdotage.
Luftwaffe is still a threat, but countered by heavy Spitfire concentration and flak placement; nothing existential. It does not establish aerial superiority, and there is no KM to attempt any landing operations anyway. A BEF is slowly built up, along with anything that can be put aside for Bomber Command.
Further fortresses and strongpoints would at least slow Jerry down in the east.
Coastal arty and allied mines may also have an effect.
The RM need some sort of aircover, as it is incongruous for heavy naval bombardment close in very early. An attack plane with a limited range and no rebasing, along with a similar fighter type may go someway as to ameliorating the situation; I know not.
To get the IJN and IJA more active in the SWPA, perhaps preplaced landing forces. It's very ahistorical, but under the limitations of the alliance and war system, provides a good kick off.
What it comes down to is limitations of the AI, and this is something that we can slightly compensate for, but not change. Such is life. But this mod provides a great platform for the tinkering.
It does seem incongruous for battlewagons to survive on such a repeated basis. The Golden Twinkie is always a threat.
Maybe revising the Swordfish attack and lethality factors may curb any extreme situations of the ease of RN demise.
My usual strategy as Great Britain is to let the KM sortie and attrit them on the way up the North Sea with destroyers, subs and cruisers. Home Fleet hits them off Edinburgh/Rosyth - attacks by the Fleet Air Arm intensify, heavy cruisers bombard, destroyers go in with torpedoes, the battlecruiser squadron rakes them and then the main battle squadrons go for the kill. Mop up supplied by the RAF. End result: No one screws with the Andrew on home turf.
Courageous, Glorious and Ark Royal then sent to the Med along with the QEs and Royal Oak, and a large portion of Countys. Nelson, Rodney, Renown and Hood remain at Scapa and Edinburgh, with Repulse off to the Far East.
The RM is attrited by its clashes with the MN and by airstrikes concentrating on heavier units. Force H heads for Malta and rendevous with the Mediterranean Fleet. Resultant battleforce operates against RM in Eastern Med, where basic tactics whittle down the enemy numbers.
Once the reinforcements arrive, all force combined and begin to hunt down remainder of RM and bombard the Italian mainland and North Africa. In the latter case, the sheer concentration of bombardment enables a swift advance by the Western Desert Force. Indeed, convoys with 2AIF onboard can be diverted to Malaya.
Once the Med is in hand, QEs go east, along with 3 Rs. Hood and Renown leave as KGVs come online, and these also head east eventually. Significantly, Force A, as the Eastern Fleet has been dubbed by me, does not venture beyond Trinco before the entire carrier force, loaded with effective fighters, is ready to go.
There is no real pressing need for a maximum effort in the battle of the Atlantic, with no vital convoys coming from Canada and particularly the United States. Those which do need to get through have heavy destroyer and cruiser escort, along with a battleship.
Therefore, it is not outside of the realms of possibility to do quite well as Great Britain, given that the main weapon of the KM does not sit astride the national jugular. Pity.
The IJN never seems to deploy in an ultra-aggressive manner, although this may be only personal anecdotage.
Luftwaffe is still a threat, but countered by heavy Spitfire concentration and flak placement; nothing existential. It does not establish aerial superiority, and there is no KM to attempt any landing operations anyway. A BEF is slowly built up, along with anything that can be put aside for Bomber Command.
Further fortresses and strongpoints would at least slow Jerry down in the east.
Coastal arty and allied mines may also have an effect.
The RM need some sort of aircover, as it is incongruous for heavy naval bombardment close in very early. An attack plane with a limited range and no rebasing, along with a similar fighter type may go someway as to ameliorating the situation; I know not.
To get the IJN and IJA more active in the SWPA, perhaps preplaced landing forces. It's very ahistorical, but under the limitations of the alliance and war system, provides a good kick off.
What it comes down to is limitations of the AI, and this is something that we can slightly compensate for, but not change. Such is life. But this mod provides a great platform for the tinkering.
You are from England I presume? As a German with somewhat limited English skills it is kind of hard to understand all the abbreviations and jargon you use. Golden Twinkie? No idea! I get IJN and IJA and KM and such, but what is QE, Force H, RM and MN?
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
QE= Queen Elizabeth class battleships
MN= (French) Marine Nationale
RM= (Italian) Regia Marina (Royal Navy)
Some US abbreviations used for ships:
BB= Battleship
BC= Battlecruiser
CV= Carrier
CVL= Light carrier
CVE= Escort carrier
CA= Heavy Cruiser
CL= Light Cruiser
CLAA= Flak cruiser
DD= Destroyer
DE= Escort Destroyer
FF= Frigate
FS= Corvette
SS= Submarine
SC= Coastal Submarine
SZ= Midget submarine
PF= Fast Patrol Craft (Schnellboot)
Adler
MN= (French) Marine Nationale
RM= (Italian) Regia Marina (Royal Navy)
Some US abbreviations used for ships:
BB= Battleship
BC= Battlecruiser
CV= Carrier
CVL= Light carrier
CVE= Escort carrier
CA= Heavy Cruiser
CL= Light Cruiser
CLAA= Flak cruiser
DD= Destroyer
DE= Escort Destroyer
FF= Frigate
FS= Corvette
SS= Submarine
SC= Coastal Submarine
SZ= Midget submarine
PF= Fast Patrol Craft (Schnellboot)
Adler
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
Australia. Don't worry, I'll type slowly. 
Force H was the RN detachment in the Western Med that counterbalanced the loss of the MN.
QE was indeed the Queen Elizabeth class of super dreadnoughts, including HMS Warspite. 'The Old Lady'.
The Golden Twinkie is a reference that is obscure and more technical. It refers to the parlance used on the various editions of the Naval Fiction Board, and describes one very lucky shot that does a lot of damage or sinks a ship. It comes from one poster's liking of an American snack food, I believe. An equivalent would be silver bullet.
Adler: US used CC for battlecruisers, and some of the smaller ships are a bit off, but generally a good list. Alaskas were CBs, or large cruisers.
CLAAs are an interesting case. There was originally an intent of badging them as DLs, or destroyer leaders, so that they would not be perceived as cruisers. This designation then made a come back post war.
Force H was the RN detachment in the Western Med that counterbalanced the loss of the MN.
QE was indeed the Queen Elizabeth class of super dreadnoughts, including HMS Warspite. 'The Old Lady'.
The Golden Twinkie is a reference that is obscure and more technical. It refers to the parlance used on the various editions of the Naval Fiction Board, and describes one very lucky shot that does a lot of damage or sinks a ship. It comes from one poster's liking of an American snack food, I believe. An equivalent would be silver bullet.
Adler: US used CC for battlecruisers, and some of the smaller ships are a bit off, but generally a good list. Alaskas were CBs, or large cruisers.
CLAAs are an interesting case. There was originally an intent of badging them as DLs, or destroyer leaders, so that they would not be perceived as cruisers. This designation then made a come back post war.
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