WW2-Global

[LBPB]

Week 8 1941 - The turning of the War ?


Continuing my Japan playtest :

==> The Allieds have proven to be extremely determined to stop the Japanese expansion !
They are clearly coordoning their operations in all fronts

- In Alaska I ve faced a huge combined Canadians/Americans troops counter attack, my 8 expeditionary corps divisions have been killed
And in only one week the US have re-deployed enough bombers in Anchorage to badly hurt my Northern fleet, who's returning in Japan to repare

- The great surprising Tank attack lead by the French in Indochina had broken the Japanese army front line ! Due to their fast movements (and the backup of some bombers), the French had even traped and encircled a dozen of our divisions (including 10 artillery divisions), and crush them to the last ! . After what, they have retaked Hanoi, widely opening them the road to the Chinese heartland
This is one of the worst defeats of the Japanese ground army in history !

- In West China, taking advantage of the rapid collapse and reorganization of the Japanese army, the others Allieds (Chinese, Commies Chineses, and British) troops have begun a large offensive in order to regain the vital oil and alluminium resources.

- After week of air blitz in malaysia, I've droped some airborn divisions near the now undefended cities of Singapor and Kuala Lumpur... But I wonder how lukily the British are to refill the defenders in the same weeks ??? While the assault troops are waiting order I've to delay the operation, since I need some more bombing here...

- On my road to Australia, lie one of the last Allieds stronghold, the Solomon Islands.
The Australians have putted here a large air force to prevent any landing...
My South fleet has arrived in the area, and a big air engagement has begun... and the Spitfire have proven to be extremely good ! My new Bishamon (Carrier class C3) has lost many of his fighters and he and his YamatoC guardian are damaged.
I'm now closing to the city to begin a naval bombardment...

 

[KristiB]

I didn't know that about Hydro plants either...

My concern is simply that since in ALL the cities I have EVER taken, I have NEVER captured a city that the AI has built a hydro plant in... Hell, even in the cities that have Factory > Manufacturing Plants, the AI doesn't even build a Coal Plant 99% of the time...

So having the hydro plant as a additional option that gives more production is yet another major advantage for the players. Let's not make this scenario TOO easy for the players...

 

[psweetman1590]

I'm talking to be historicaly accurate !

One carrier should be suffisant to sunk a ship

Maybe, maybe not. The Yamato and its escorts (including a cruiser and several destroyers) took twelve carriers. Granted, the carriers were also putting up the CAP over Okinawa at the time, but as Japan's airforce was next to non-existant by that time, that took no great resources. Like I said before, I think carrier based air is lethat enough as it is. And Roco, I would advise against removing the islands of the pacific. Historically, many of them were of great importance as airfields and ship re-supplyment points. Taking them out would remove a good deal of the strategy that was followed during the war on both sides: Japan's "protective screen" around its homelands, and the US style of island hopping.

 

[allin1joe]

Japan playtest middle of 1940

I didn't keep detailed notes on this one, as I only played 3 turns. I was able to take out the complete American task force (3 battleships and I believe 6 Heavy Cruisers) with the loss of 1 battleship and 1 Heavy Cruiser. I only have 1 Battleship left. I have about 15 or so Heavy Cruisers and am building 2 Yamatos and 3 Heavy Cruiser C2s. Right now, I have as much as possible production focusing on air (dive bombers mainly), marines and heavy artillery.

The ground war in SE Asia is going well. I have all British cities East of Calcutta (I don't have Thailand taken out yet, so they still have the cities on the tip). I'm moving against Calcutta and will be there in 3 turns. Once I take that city, I'll turn my attention back to the Chinas and move my workers down to complete the railnet there. I'll then sweep back, take out Thailand and secure SE Asia. At that point, I will divert some Marines and Artillery to start clearing up the islands leading to Australia. I'll also draft a bunch of infantry for this attack. I want to time it with my Yamato being built as I want that fleet to escort the 3-4 transports I will have.

I get Land/Air 1940 in 2 turns, then I'll try a steal from America to see if I can get a jump on research. I am doing better with my economy and research, but it's still not as quick as I'd like.

My memory was shipped yesterday so I hope to get it by Thursday or Friday. I timed the computer moves so I'll know how much the extra GB of RAM will help (I currently have 512MB RAM).

Computer moves -- 15 Minutes
My build (including harbors being built) -- 5 Minutes
Computer build -- 10 minutes
Taking a city -- 5 minutes

I get done with 1 turn every 1/2 hour depending on how long my move takes.

 

[Rocoteh]

Unit graphic suggestions: Japanese Akizuki-class destroyer and Otsu aircraft carrying submarine (could be used as Type A1, A2, AM, B1, B2, B3 and I-400 [Sen Toku Type]), both made by Wyrmshadow...

P.S.Y.C.H.O.,

The Japanese Akizuki-class have been added as 1941 Destroyer.

I intend to include the Otsu submarine also.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Bob1475,

Thank you for the report.

A very interesting playtest. It seems that you soon will occupy
North America.

"Given that the Americans still have 27 Iowa class BBs I suspect they are intercepted." Bob1475

That is a huge force.

"The AI is not afraid of my jet fighters. They simply are shot down"
Bob1475

That is very good news!

"One thing I note is that there are no German defense units anywhere near with defense of the 44 SS Panzer. This results in limited build options. It may be that no such unit existed but it would be interesting" Bob1475

The introduction of the Jagdpanther in 1.4 will somewhat change this.

"The Americans have two Atomic bombs but have not used them despite the fact that I have used them in North America but not for many turns. Is it possible the AI does not know how to use them i.e. they do not know how to transport? I suspect as I near a city within range of the atomic bombs I may find out. Fear of atomic bombs keeps me from stacking too many units and results in maintaining hight reserves."

Try to destroy them. I am rather sure AI knows how to use them!

"Also, AI not bombing strategically. Particularly in this game they should disrupt the railroads in my supply line but not one attack on the lines!"

Yes AI is not to smart. What you mention is a great weakness
for AI.

It will be very interesting to follow this playtest.

Welcome back

Rocoteh

 

[Tantor]

Rocoteh, the only powers who used submarines in ww2 with great success were Germany, US and probably Japan. All others were behind. So what do you think about giving them Blitz and the other remain as they are?

Adler

This suggestion may already have been made, but I would suggest making a wolfpack unit available for some nations, perhaps after research for other civs than germany. Give the wolfpack blitz, while single subs loose their blitz. This may perhaps fit in well with the new destroyer flotilla?

-Tantor-

 

[DrNick]

Dr Nick,

Thank you for the report.

Very interesting early blitz against Japan. I think I will place more
special fortress units in the Japanese cities in 1.4.

This is really an early advance on Germany!
It will be interesting to follow if you can continue this rapid offensive
into Germany.

I think your playtest indicates that a US victory in Europe is
possible much earlier than one can think.

Rocoteh

The extra defense in Japan is probably a good idea. As you'll see below, the only city I had trouble taking in the home islands so far was Tokyo itself.
My offensive in the Japan home islands and Europe has been slowed by the necessity of sealifting all troops but Paras and the fact that I am trying to move forward on two fronts simultaneously. I noticed Marines are still airliftable, but I try not to use it



Here is the latest
wk51, 1940 Brest is taken and now all of continental France is mine. I lose a Marine, 1B-25, and two fighters but take out a U-boat an 88, 3Me-110 and 2 Bismarks! (in Brest, stupid AI). Also destroy an It Fighter and some Japanese armor.
wk52 Yokohama falls to me, but I lose a Dauntless and 2 B-25s over Tokyo. Also lose a fighter but take out a Zero

wk1, 1941 Milan falls as I destroy 4If Inf and 1It Marrine. Also destroy one Zero and a Kate while only loosing two fighters and a CA to a Brazilian BB!
Wk2 I destroy a German counterattack into France by 3 PzIIIs by pounding them with artillery and then bombing them. Also destroy a Brazil BB and sub, 2 Zeros 2 type97 and 2 IJN inf. I am laying seige to Tokyo with Marines and a large bombarding Naval task force, inlcuding 2/3 of my BB and CA.
wk 3 I lose some B-25s and my last B-18 (how did it last so long!) but shoot down 3 It Fighters

wk 4 Rome falls and the Axis have lost one capitcal! I destroy 4It Inf, a It HMG 8It Arty as well as 2 Type 97, 1Inf and 1 HMG in and near Tokyo.

wk 5 Tokyo falls and now there is only one Axis capital left. I lose a sub this turn but destroy 2 Uboat, 3It Fortress, 4Jap Inf and 1 Jap HMG in Tokyo!

more soon

 

[Adler17]

Tantor, also lonely uboats sunk more than one ship at once. So I still think that Blitz should have only these types: Uboats, Wolfpacks, Japanese and US submarines.

Adler

 

[Tantor]

Tantor, also lonely uboats sunk more than one ship at once. So I still think that Blitz should have only these types: Uboats, Wolfpacks, Japanese and US submarines.

Adler

I understand your point of view and for the record, my suggestion emphasized playability over realism this time. But perhaps the blitz ability could be an upgrade? I believe US submarines didn`t get effective before sometime in `43, but I guess some of you guys have better sources and statistics than me. Uboats should start with blitz.

-Tantor-

 

[KristiB]

Bear in mind that a destroyer icon actually represents a flotilla of destroyers, not just a single one... So when a sub kills off 3 destroyer units they are actually sinking 30 or so destroyers.

 

[Rocoteh]

I didn't know that about Hydro plants either...

My concern is simply that since in ALL the cities I have EVER taken, I have NEVER captured a city that the AI has built a hydro plant in... Hell, even in the cities that have Factory > Manufacturing Plants, the AI doesn't even build a Coal Plant 99% of the time...

So having the hydro plant as a additional option that gives more production is yet another major advantage for the players. Let's not make this scenario TOO easy for the players...

KristiB,

OK I will check "build often" production for the major powers
to see if it has any impact.

Should the scenario really be to easy to play I will of course implement
factors that will make it more difficult.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Maybe, maybe not. The Yamato and its escorts (including a cruiser and several destroyers) took twelve carriers. Granted, the carriers were also putting up the CAP over Okinawa at the time, but as Japan's airforce was next to non-existant by that time, that took no great resources. Like I said before, I think carrier based air is lethat enough as it is. And Roco, I would advise against removing the islands of the pacific. Historically, many of them were of great importance as airfields and ship re-supplyment points. Taking them out would remove a good deal of the strategy that was followed during the war on both sides: Japan's "protective screen" around its homelands, and the US style of island hopping.

psweetman1590.

OK, I will look it over. Of course I want the Pacific to be an important
theater of operation.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Week 8 1941 - The turning of the War ?


Continuing my Japan playtest :

==> The Allieds have proven to be extremely determined to stop the Japanese expansion !
They are clearly coordoning their operations in all fronts

- In Alaska I ve faced a huge combined Canadians/Americans troops counter attack, my 8 expeditionary corps divisions have been killed
And in only one week the US have re-deployed enough bombers in Anchorage to badly hurt my Northern fleet, who's returning in Japan to repare

- The great surprising Tank attack lead by the French in Indochina had broken the Japanese army front line ! Due to their fast movements (and the backup of some bombers), the French had even traped and encircled a dozen of our divisions (including 10 artillery divisions), and crush them to the last ! . After what, they have retaked Hanoi, widely opening them the road to the Chinese heartland
This is one of the worst defeats of the Japanese ground army in history !

- In West China, taking advantage of the rapid collapse and reorganization of the Japanese army, the others Allieds (Chinese, Commies Chineses, and British) troops have begun a large offensive in order to regain the vital oil and alluminium resources.

- After week of air blitz in malaysia, I've droped some airborn divisions near the now undefended cities of Singapor and Kuala Lumpur... But I wonder how lukily the British are to refill the defenders in the same weeks ??? While the assault troops are waiting order I've to delay the operation, since I need some more bombing here...

- On my road to Australia, lie one of the last Allieds stronghold, the Solomon Islands.
The Australians have putted here a large air force to prevent any landing...
My South fleet has arrived in the area, and a big air engagement has begun... and the Spitfire have proven to be extremely good ! My new Bishamon (Carrier class C3) has lost many of his fighters and he and his YamatoC guardian are damaged.
I'm now closing to the city to begin a naval bombardment...

LBPB,

Your forces were probably overextended.

Its interesting though that AI has capacity to counterstrike in such
a situation. The fundamental problem AI has is to wage a sustained
offensive. Thus I think the counteroffensives AI have launched soon
will run out of steam.

Then the problem is where to strike against the counteroffensives
with priority.

Your early offensive strategy is very interesting.
I still think it will pay off.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rubberjello]

Week 31-35, 1940
A british convoy dares to enter the Mediteranean, escorted by a Battleship though. After some Breda Dive Bombers and shore Artillery get finished, she is red-lined and we only lose 1 sub to sink her and her two Light Carrier Escorts, and the transport itself.
The Germans make no progress in Britain. My fleet gives us trying to help them and heads back to the Med. They did manage to destroy many RAF planes on the ground through bombardment. Almost half of Japan's homeland is now controlled by the US.
Nairobi was taken after a long siege (another Mountain city!), as well as Tabora, Dar es Salaam, Mbala (pain in the butt due to location!),
The last two Belgian cities (Elizabethville and Katanga) are autorazed, unfortunately. The Belgians are now extinct.
Luanda and Cabanga are taken from the Portuguese government-in-exile.
Are you sure you want to make the M13/40 movement of 1? I appreciate you wanting to make the Italian's job more difficult, but a movement point of 1 for an armored unit? Bug?

Week 36-40, 1940
Send and expedition of a HC, 3 LC, and 10 Destroyers to South America to get contact with some of the civs there. Lusaka and Lilongwe captured after some British Marine counterattacks killed about 5 of my tank units. Salisbury captured after a brutal fight, including the loss of a tank army. We are finally "out of the jungle" and into South Africa proper.
Grootfontein is captured next, and Titus joins the ranks of new generals commanding Tank Armies. Zesfontein, Pretoria, Durban, Johannesburg, and Windhoek (with a couple of ships in Port) were captured from the British. Beira, Laurenco Marces, and Micomboa captured from Portugal.

Week 41-46, 1940
Capetown and Port Elizabeth fall and Britain is kicked out of Africa. All of Africa (except Madagascar) is under Italian control!
Brazil must have run over a German U-boat. Now all the Axis are at war with them. A U.S. Battleship came out of nowhere in the Atlantic and sank one of my elite Heavy Cruisers in the Mid-Atlantic. I see 2 U-boats go after the survivor and sink while trying to get revenge for me. My next turn, I attack with my Light Cruisers and the Battleship is sunk (only 2 health left).
I decide to give all the armed forces the rest of the year off. For one, all these British cities in Africa need to have dissidents suppressed (which takes quite a while!). For two, my armed forces are really not that strong. Before exposing myself to any "real" powers geographically, I need many more units. For three, I need to build some more power plants (just read the thread about their cumulative effect!) For four, I want to make many African cities at least marginally productive, and eventually industrialize Africa fully. To this end, I have over 300 workers, plus an additional 50+ slaves working away.

Where to go next? Well, (Democratic!!! Russia is plugging away at creating a massive army. Before exposing myself by breaking out of Africa, I'm toying with the idea of launching an invasion of England and helping out the hopelessly inept Germans in getting rid of a front. It will (eventually) be interesting to see how if a single-front Germany can hold out against the eventual Russian onslaught.
The modern Italian empire:

 

[Rocoteh]

Japan playtest middle of 1940

I didn't keep detailed notes on this one, as I only played 3 turns. I was able to take out the complete American task force (3 battleships and I believe 6 Heavy Cruisers) with the loss of 1 battleship and 1 Heavy Cruiser. I only have 1 Battleship left. I have about 15 or so Heavy Cruisers and am building 2 Yamatos and 3 Heavy Cruiser C2s. Right now, I have as much as possible production focusing on air (dive bombers mainly), marines and heavy artillery.

The ground war in SE Asia is going well. I have all British cities East of Calcutta (I don't have Thailand taken out yet, so they still have the cities on the tip). I'm moving against Calcutta and will be there in 3 turns. Once I take that city, I'll turn my attention back to the Chinas and move my workers down to complete the railnet there. I'll then sweep back, take out Thailand and secure SE Asia. At that point, I will divert some Marines and Artillery to start clearing up the islands leading to Australia. I'll also draft a bunch of infantry for this attack. I want to time it with my Yamato being built as I want that fleet to escort the 3-4 transports I will have.

I get Land/Air 1940 in 2 turns, then I'll try a steal from America to see if I can get a jump on research. I am doing better with my economy and research, but it's still not as quick as I'd like.

My memory was shipped yesterday so I hope to get it by Thursday or Friday. I timed the computer moves so I'll know how much the extra GB of RAM will help (I currently have 512MB RAM).

Computer moves -- 15 Minutes
My build (including harbors being built) -- 5 Minutes
Computer build -- 10 minutes
Taking a city -- 5 minutes

I get done with 1 turn every 1/2 hour depending on how long my move takes.

allin1joe,

With the last American task force eliminated it shall take long time until
USA-AI can send any naval forces that count.

To focus on dive-bomber production now sounds like a good idea.

On Thailand: It will be Pro-Axis in version 1.4.

It will be very interesting to hear how much waiting-time will be
reduced by the extra RAM.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

The extra defense in Japan is probably a good idea. As you'll see below, the only city I had trouble taking in the home islands so far was Tokyo itself.
My offensive in the Japan home islands and Europe has been slowed by the necessity of sealifting all troops but Paras and the fact that I am trying to move forward on two fronts simultaneously. I noticed Marines are still airliftable, but I try not to use it



Here is the latest
wk51, 1940 Brest is taken and now all of continental France is mine. I lose a Marine, 1B-25, and two fighters but take out a U-boat an 88, 3Me-110 and 2 Bismarks! (in Brest, stupid AI). Also destroy an It Fighter and some Japanese armor.
wk52 Yokohama falls to me, but I lose a Dauntless and 2 B-25s over Tokyo. Also lose a fighter but take out a Zero

wk1, 1941 Milan falls as I destroy 4If Inf and 1It Marrine. Also destroy one Zero and a Kate while only loosing two fighters and a CA to a Brazilian BB!
Wk2 I destroy a German counterattack into France by 3 PzIIIs by pounding them with artillery and then bombing them. Also destroy a Brazil BB and sub, 2 Zeros 2 type97 and 2 IJN inf. I am laying seige to Tokyo with Marines and a large bombarding Naval task force, inlcuding 2/3 of my BB and CA.
wk 3 I lose some B-25s and my last B-18 (how did it last so long!) but shoot down 3 It Fighters

wk 4 Rome falls and the Axis have lost one capitcal! I destroy 4It Inf, a It HMG 8It Arty as well as 2 Type 97, 1Inf and 1 HMG in and near Tokyo.

wk 5 Tokyo falls and now there is only one Axis capital left. I lose a sub this turn but destroy 2 Uboat, 3It Fortress, 4Jap Inf and 1 Jap HMG in Tokyo!

more soon

Dr Nick,

Thank you for the report.

It will not be possible to airlift Marines in 1.4.

The early American blitz against Japan and Europe is incredible!

I will make changes to make Japanese defense much stronger.

It will be interesting to follow how much time it will take for you
to occupy Germany.
Your playtest shows that an very early American victory is possible.

Welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Tantor]

Bear in mind that a destroyer icon actually represents a flotilla of destroyers, not just a single one... So when a sub kills off 3 destroyer units they are actually sinking 30 or so destroyers.

My point exactly, I thought it perhaps would be better if only wolfpacks had blitz, then one lonely sub couldn`t sink too many destroyers....

-Tantor-

 

[Rocoteh]

This suggestion may already have been made, but I would suggest making a wolfpack unit available for some nations, perhaps after research for other civs than germany. Give the wolfpack blitz, while single subs loose their blitz. This may perhaps fit in well with the new destroyer flotilla?

-Tantor-

Tantor,

I have plans for including a Wolfpack unit.

No decision yet though.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Bear in mind that a destroyer icon actually represents a flotilla of destroyers, not just a single one... So when a sub kills off 3 destroyer units they are actually sinking 30 or so destroyers.

KristiB,

Yes the destroyer-Flotilla unit will represent 8 destroyers in 1.4.

The current destroyer unit represents just one destroyer.

It will still be possible to build single destroyers in version 1.4.

Rocoteh