WW2-Global

[Sasebo]

LBPB: If you ever try that tactic against German PZGren. units remember that they have inherent flak, or you will get a nasty surprise.

Rocoteh: As a couple of others mentioned, the sub bug is still really annoying. I did not mention it, but in both the 1.4 and the new 1.5 game I am playing on turn 1 Turkey went to war with BOTH the allies & axis! Also in my new Germany game Spain also ran onto my submarine and declared war. Even though I am right next to Constantinople I am not prepared on turn 1 to go fight Turkey yet! I don't mind but having Italy's navy have to deal with both of them and the Allies is not good for Italy.

Both Norway and Sweden are asking me to get my mines out of their territory; I am probably going to cave in since I don't need another war. I don't really need that mine in Norwegian waters anyway. The Swedish one IS going ot be a problem; I have to see where it gets shifted. If you took that minefield 3 squares NW of Konigsberg and moved it SW one square I think that would still cover the channel and avoid this. Observe the German cultural boundary on turn 2 and you will see it would be safe there.

Not much to report regarding the sub issues yet, I have yet to see major enemy fleets. I have lost about 15 Uboats so far, but I was going after 2 BBs, which I sank. I think their being there is a bug, but those 3 Otsu units that start in the Bay of Biscay have accounted for almost half the losses I have been able to inflict; That blitz and 35 attack in close quarters is deadly! They sank about 11-12 ships so far, and I still have 1 left.

S-boats are clearly broken; I refuse to build any more for this game. Let's see, I can build a HC for 320 shields and get a bombard of 14 with a ROF of 2, or eight S-boats with a bombard of 20 and a ROF of 3! Yes, they are slow, but the coast of Britain is well within their range from their minefield or Amsterdam. I will be interested to see if the AI bothers to build them and use them to blow those coastal defenses away in those UK playtests. Some form of higher cost/less power has to be made for them.

Are you forgetting that you upped the SNLF's stats? I see you mentioned Japan did not get any upgrades, but the SNLF had it's offense taken from 16 to 20/24??? I don't remember but I did see an increase in the Units section. That may be why Japan is so "feisty" in 1.4/5.

 

[Rocoteh]

LBPB: If you ever try that tactic against German PZGren. units remember that they have inherent flak, or you will get a nasty surprise.

Rocoteh: As a couple of others mentioned, the sub bug is still really annoying. I did not mention it, but in both the 1.4 and the new 1.5 game I am playing on turn 1 Turkey went to war with BOTH the allies & axis! Also in my new Germany game Spain also ran onto my submarine and declared war. Even though I am right next to Constantinople I am not prepared on turn 1 to go fight Turkey yet! I don't mind but having Italy's navy have to deal with both of them and the Allies is not good for Italy.

Both Norway and Sweden are asking me to get my mines out of their territory; I am probably going to cave in since I don't need another war. I don't really need that mine in Norwegian waters anyway. The Swedish one IS going ot be a problem; I have to see where it gets shifted. If you took that minefield 3 squares NW of Konigsberg and moved it SW one square I think that would still cover the channel and avoid this. Observe the German cultural boundary on turn 2 and you will see it would be safe there.

Not much to report regarding the sub issues yet, I have yet to see major enemy fleets. I have lost about 15 Uboats so far, but I was going after 2 BBs, which I sank. I think their being there is a bug, but those 3 Otsu units that start in the Bay of Biscay have accounted for almost half the losses I have been able to inflict; That blitz and 35 attack in close quarters is deadly! They sank about 11-12 ships so far, and I still have 1 left.

S-boats are clearly broken; I refuse to build any more for this game. Let's see, I can build a HC for 320 shields and get a bombard of 14 with a ROF of 2, or eight S-boats with a bombard of 20 and a ROF of 3! Yes, they are slow, but the coast of Britain is well within their range from their minefield or Amsterdam. I will be interested to see if the AI bothers to build them and use them to blow those coastal defenses away in those UK playtests. Some form of higher cost/less power has to be made for them.

Are you forgetting that you upped the SNLF's stats? I see you mentioned Japan did not get any upgrades, but the SNLF had it's offense taken from 16 to 20/24??? I don't remember but I did see an increase in the Units section. That may be why Japan is so "feisty" in 1.4/5.

Sasebo,

The "sub-bug": Its part of the standard CIV, not a bug I have created.
I will not rule out the hidden nationality solution that you have proposed,
but that will need a lot of playtesting.

On the minefields: OK I will look it over.

On the S-boats: As said earlier, should they not be relevant I will remove them.

On SNLF stats: I did not say that Japan stats was unchanged.
I said the only units added for Japan were static units.

Rocoteh

 

[LBPB]

LBPB: If you ever try that tactic against German PZGren. units remember that they have inherent flak, or you will get a nasty surprise.

Noticed !

Anyway, I never play in the Allieds side, I'm a bad guy you know


btw : Are you sure these PZGren would be a match against 100+ bombers launched on them ???

 

[andis-1]

I've been thinking about the sub problem, and I might have solution that reduces war declarations: place in both turkey's and spain's coastal cities some immoveable destroyers, so they will spot sub's at coast. However, this won't remove problem fully, so maybe change neutral civ's submarines to no nationality. Only neutral civ's...
And about the Soviet's attacking india, it's no way realistic! You could make some mountains that are not passable by any units, and make some chokepoints in India/Iraq border.

 

[ric ricardo]

Adler:

That Prinz Eugen was one expensive cruiser at over half the cost
of the Bismarck! Weren't Hipper and Eugen the same class? Big difference
in price, maybe cost of materials went up when the war started.

a bit of history bluff...prince eugen is an "improved" version of admiral hipper and thus the big diff in price...it's not as if admiral hipper is a good design either...at 14,000 tons it's 40% over treaty limit and thus over priced for the typical fighting qualities 8-8" they posesses.

 

[vlad1917_a]

Sasebo,

The "sub-bug": Its part of the standard CIV, not a bug I have created.
I will not rule out the hidden nationality solution that you have proposed,
but that will need a lot of playtesting.

On the minefields: OK I will look it over.

Rocoteh

1) That will means everybody will fight everybody subs. That is not what y want.
2) Must be done. Any way It almost impossible to break. I have found only one way to win over minefields. Eliminate Germans

 

[oljb007]

this is my first post to this thread. I am going to be going out to get conquests as I only have PTW presently.

I have read about 20-25 pages of this thread and a general problem I see and have always seen is that the computer handles and makes use of units less effectively than a real player. Thus creating a balancing problem. As a result, Roc what do you think about the possibility of "adjusting" AI units stats for each of the "real player" starts. Example: I want to play Britain, so you create a "save game" where you increased the German U-Boats (and what ever other AI's units need a boost: japan, US, russia, etc etc) so the AI can be more effective with them. and so forth. I realize this would be a huge undertaking but it is the only real possibility for truly balancing a game of this scope. People can even do this themselves.

just a thought I had.

 

[ric ricardo]

Dear Rocoteh:
just stumble onto this site a couple of days b4, still only pg 62, so some of the suggestions here may be out of date/fixed by then, but here's my 2 cents worth:
1. awesome...it's incredible for anyone to put this time and effort into develop this, u truly r amazing.
2. about battleship not being sunk by carriers...i am thinking along this line:
a. 1 plane unit represents a 16 plane flight (squadron). so on the CV(ie. yorktown, essex class of 80 planes) can be represented by a placement of 5 planes, with the smaller CVM can carry 3x16=48 planes and CAM ships carrying even less. therefore with more planes, BB will hopefully be sunk
b. make battleships upgradable. for example, with tech 1941, radar can be added to a capital ship for increase atk pts. on the other hand, make a "dual purpose secondary arament", "approx. fuse" etc. to increase def pts against planes, such that as the war goes on, if the civ has $, their older ships can get better while new ships to be built to the new std...don't know how that could be done though as this may mean 3 to 4 extra units for every unit that is now in the game.
3. on china: ok, china with tank is just weird...recommend that cheap auto produce units with bad atk/def but gd mvt pts be made to allow for pillaging infrastructure agianst jap adv. (think partisan units in civ2)
4. on russia: same with china...auto build cheap and crap russian foot soliders instead of tanks, and to emphasis the terrible shape the russian military is in b4 1939 (the purge is just about to end), recommend providing crap tanks/planes/soliders that can not be built when the game starts in order to show the improvments in russian fighting quality
5. on jap: point 2 should help with pearl harbour...kamakazie r missiles...o, another naval point: would it be possible to convert BB into CV? (think kaga, lexington)
6. on spain and other neutrals that won't stop declaring war: how about static formations mainly that emphasize on def...also reduce thier navy so that subs won't be discovered, and their cities should be really behind the rest of world in terms of production capabilities such taht mainly foot soliders can be built...
7. thanks again, go play the game and contribute!!!
r.s

 

[Bob1475]

Britain - v1.5 - Emperor
(Second try)
1939 Report

Having learned of the Japanese threat from my first disaster I established an early strategy of taking out the Thais to keep the Chinese focused on the Japanese. Also, I will withdraw my Expeditionary Force from France and deploy to Africa to clear out the Italians. Will also draft MP units where possible. In addition I focused more on units although the empire needs a lot of work so I also need workers and factories.

Week 36
We open by taking the two northern Thai cities and gather our units for an attack on Tobruk. Usual "sub wars primarily in the Med. Germans take Brussels and Amsterdam. In Europe we use our bombers exclusively for damaging German infrastructure - no fighters rise to meet us. Usual naval battles

Week 37 Entire German fleet deploys. We lose 2 BBs - damn RNG! Bomb German infrastructuree again no fighters. Tobruk is ours.

Week 38 Germans finish off the Poles. Germans land w units north of Edinborough but we finish them off. Bomber meets German fighters - we discontinue bombing.

Week 39 - Bangkog is ours - note that the Chinese that were approaching have turned back - presumably they will slow the Japanese.

Redeploy bombers to Asia and Africa. El Aghella is ours.

Week 40-42 Continued naval actions vs subs -seem to have them under control. US ships appearing. We take Bisciara. French take La Caruna. Japanese pressing attack by naval and air units on Hong Kong. Also Japanese take Davao and are moving towards Fakfak.

Week 43 - We take Murzak. We move units from Gibralta towards Valencia to pressure Spain to give up the war. We need France to focus on Germans.

Week 44 -Sign peace with Spain for 12 GPT. More importantly French units now to focus on Germans. American ships in the channel bombing Amsterdam. Unfortunately they leave themselves open to sub attacks because they would rather bomb Amsterdam than attack subs. I try and kill the subs and also bomb improvements. Nothing left in range now.

Week 45 - We take Tripoli - Italians out of North Africa - next East Africa! Reinforcements from Europe land in Tripoli to be used in the East Africa offensive. London generating bombers being sent to the front.

Port Mobley under attack by Japanese who took the other two cities on the island.
American fleet helping keep the Japanese off of Hong Kong.
Italian tanks approach Meshed but are beaten off with air power.

Week 50 - Finns near Kabul! Kismayu ours as the East Africa offensive bears fruit. Germans have taken Adana from the French. This is beginning to look familiar.

Week 51 - Japan declares war on Turkey. Not sure about this - on one hand it will keep the Germans busy (not for long) - on the other they will have a clear shot at Africa.

Week 52 - We take Mogadishu.

As the year ends we again face Finns, Italians and this time also German armor near Meshed. However, we have air power which reduces the threat somewhat vs last time. If Germans break through the French in Damascus we face a tough time unless the Russians get in the game. On the other hand the Southern front looks better - Communist Chinese have lost two cities and the Chinese have lost three. Chungking nearest Japanese city to me. I have air power waiting for them although most units are older and not powerful. I am reinforcing the Thai cities with radar and additional units. Must get improved defensive units to the front but the technology may be too late.

Japnese infantry at 11/11 - is that not also an improvement?

The key here is surviving the first half of 1940 to get to improved units. Will the Americans show up?

 

[Chazbagel]

I Have a problem. After it configures the AI players, and goes into configuring Scenario, it freezes up. I have probably tried 10-15 times. Am i screwed ? Or should i try deleting it and redowloading? What?

 

[oljb007]

How long did you wait? Odds are its not frozen its still configuring. top of the line machines take 10-15 minutes.

 

[allin1joe]

I Have a problem. After it configures the AI players, and goes into configuring Scenario, it freezes up. I have probably tried 10-15 times. Am i screwed ? Or should i try deleting it and redowloading? What?

Try waiting longer It could take up to an hour to configure. Rocoteh posted saves for previous releases. I am not sure if he did this for 1.5 yet.

 

[Chazbagel]

Is an E-Machine T2341 with a Prosavage 8 Graphics Card top notch? lol

 

[oljb007]

Is an E-Machine T2341 with a Prosavage 8 Graphics Card top notch? lol
__________________
Barbarians make me

here are your specs:

AMD Athlon 2400+ 2.0GHz, 128MB DDRAM, 40GB Hard Drive, 48x Max. CD-RW Drive, 3.5" 1.44MB FDD,10/100 NIC, 56K Modem, Microsoft® Windows® XP

not the greatest but there are alot worse out there; but give 20-30 mins imo.

 

[Chazbagel]

Does it take 20-30 minutes every time you load???!!

 

[Pfeffersack]

If you start the scenario new yes; the savegames loads in about half a minute.

 

[oljb007]

Does it take 20-30 minutes every time you load???!!

once you "load" the scenario, "save it" then you only have to load the save which is really fast.

 

[mircea74]

I've been looking a bit over some ww2 pages on the internet and found the technical data about most of the ww2 ships. And i believe the current stats doesn't reflect the reality. I'm talking mostly about speed here. Here's what i found out:

-early destroyers (1939) : about 36 kn
-late destroyers (1941 and up) : 39 kn
-carriers speed varies between 26 and 32 kn
-battleships: between 24 and 30 kn
-battlecruiser: 30-35 kn
-light cruisers: 28-32 kn (Emden 29.4 kn; Nurnberg 32 kn)
-heavy cruisers: 30-35 kn
-submarines and u-boats: 14-18 kn
-coastal defense ships: around 18 kn
-deutschland class: 28.5 kn
-gneisenau class: 30.7 kn
-bismarck class: 30.1 kn
-yamato class: 27 kn

Translating these into CivIII movement points system is somehow difficult but a solution can be this:

36-39 kn = 9
33-36 kn = 8
30-33 kn = 7
27-30 kn = 6
24-27 kn = 5
< 24 kn = 4

That would give:
4 : Subs, U-Boats, Coastal Defense
5: Battleship, Carrier
6: Battleship C2, Carrier C2, Light Cruiser, Deutschland class, Yamato
7: Battlecruiser, Carrier C3, Light Cruiser C2, Heavy Cruiser, AA Cruiser, Yamato, Gneisenau, Bismarck
8: Destroyer 1939, Heavy Cruiser C2, Iowa, Shokaku Class
9: Destroyer 1941

Also i've been thinking about the importance of carriers in reality compared with their utility in the game and i think they should be able to carry more planes. I'm suggesting capacity of 5 for Carriers, 7 for Carriers C2 and 9 for Carriers C3. Their value would be much better this way and even reflect the reality. A top carrier from ww2 could carry over 90 planes while others over 40. A simple formula (number of planes/10) can be used to determine the capacity of civIII carriers.

I have more suggestions regarding naval stats but i'll stop here for now. Let me know what you guys think, especially Rocoteh of course

 

[oljb007]

Great info regarding the naval units and I hope it is implemented. One thing I noticed though is that subs have 14-18 knotts. I know that wwII subs were "very" slow submerged as they ran on batteries, however, surfaced they faired quite well as they ran on diesel engines.

(edit) i found 13 knots surfaced and 7 knots submerged for
U boot type II B - standard version 1942

As a result, they had 2 speeds but I dont know how that would be implemented in this scenario.

none the less, great info and I also agree with the carrier capacity, It has never been "correct" for Civ

 

[oljb007]

From what i have read, I get the impression that people dont truly appreciate the U-Boats and what they did in the Atlantic. This was such a major ordeal at the onset of the war that new technology had to be created to deal with this problem so that the Atlantic could be freed up for transit again. The invention of Convoys, the drop tank on the P40 I think so they could cover the "gap" that air patrols couldn't cover. that tech alone greatly reduced Allied Losses.

if you go to Uboat.net and check the boats out and see some of the missions and the pack numbers they were in you will find that one uboat on average would sink 20-30 ships by itself (in a wolf pack of course) I mean the lamest U-boat I found only sank 12 ships. The most successfull sank over 50!!! One U-Boat sinking over 50 ships! Granted these were merchant ships, they were still be escorted in convoys and had their primary targets been military there results would have been probably close to the same.

Some else, I think Kristi but not sure posted some stats and I was supprised at how "low" they were and how it marginalized the u-boat. When in fact it was quite the opposite. The original plan was to completely isolate the Island and they did that for some time, even with the "largest navy in the world" against them. That is by no means "Marginal" As a result, the U-boat should start strong and then be rendered useless by tech as it was in real life.