WW2-Global

[vlad1917_a]

Bug. Malta as German Security division as 26 Anti tank.

 

[clearbeard]

I do not use garnisons at all. Just border lines but SD are not useful here. But I use draft to attack. I think half attacks of first 20 turns made by draft and Germans are very successful there with their air support.
I see if u upgrade unit the old unit run out of production

That's the point, to weaken Germany's early attacks. It is true that you wouldn't be able to build SD's if they upgrade to infantry, but if infantry is not draftable, you'll still get SD's by drafting.

 

[Grizx]

Adler and Clearbeard,

Are you saying Germany when played by the AI is over-powered?

Or are you saying Germany when played by a human is over-powered?

Grizx

 

[skanar]

Bug. Malta as German Security division as 26 Anti tank.

This bug has been reported and, according to Roc., fixed.

 

[vlad1917_a]

This bug has been reported and, according to Roc., fixed.

Well, sorry about it.
civfanatics should have wiki installed just for scenario bugs reporting. So it will be consolidated and easy to check for creator.

 

[SchmuckofNI]

Just curious is there any way to turn off the locked alliances?
I love this campaign but I love to see some what if scenarios...

 

[skanar]

In the Editor, the "Scenario" editor has an item called "Scenario Properties." The third tab contains the controls for locked alliances.

You should be able to make any changes you want to there. Click on the country and use the arrow buttons to move them in and out of the alliances...click on the alliances to toggle the at war/not at war state...pretty self-explanatory.

Rocoteh will know much better than I, but I don't think that that will cause any problems with the rest of the mod. (other than balance problems, obviously.)

 

[Adler17]

Germany playing as AI is definately not overpowered. Germany as human depends on the level you play. I will answer that if I start a new game on civ. Also until now I was someway lucky with my attacks don´t losing many units. All in all I think mobilization and drafting should be kept. Drafting is very suitable for garrison troops and for fighting damaged units or weak infantry. All in all I think drafting should be kept. Also the fighting with drafted units is relative seldomly, so I think it is in no way a point which is neccessary to be changed.
I also think that a human player has always good chances to win the game with the great powers (USA, Britain, Germany, USSR). But that´s much more a problem due to the weak AI.

Adler

 

[Rocoteh]

I am back on line again. Hopefully my ADSL-connection will continue to
work this time. The recent problems have put me in conflict with the company
that delivers Internet to me. My response will soon be to cancel my contract
with them. Thus there can still be problems the next days.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Just curious is there any way to turn off the locked alliances?
I love this campaign but I love to see some what if scenarios...

SchmuckofNI,

Yes, as skanar says you can change locked alliances with the editor,
scenario properties.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

heres a thought sparked by "Vlad1917 a" comment about Horses, Germany employed the use of nearly a quarter million horses (dont quote me on that but I know it was 6 figures) at the wars end for moving equipment. They pioneered the jet fighter but didnt build the simplest of things, a jeep. This greately cost the germans and maybe as a way of incorporating this they could be handicapped in not being able to build any new Railroads or making it extemely difficult to build?

just a thought!

oljb007,

However lack of oil prohibited motorization of the logistic system.
Germany turned to full war-production as late as 1944. Even
with an earlier date for full scale war-production its hard to see
German combat divisions motorized beyond 30-40% due to scarce
oil resources.

September 1939 US had 60% of world oil production.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

I could not find oil in Norway. How it can be?

vlad1917_a,

No oil had been found in Norway 1939-1945.

Rocoteh

 

[Sasebo]

I like the idea of Security Divisions as draft units instead of infantry; I think it makes it too easy to attack with Germany early on. The Germans never had enough troops to do everything they wanted to do, using the draft a lot really changes the feel of the scenario IMHO. I don't draft unless a city is threatened and never use mobilization but that is a personal "house rule", everyone has their own favorite way to play.

I've been thinking if I want to play a minor power like Finland you really need to uncheck that locked allaince box to get a decent game. As long as you play it fairly historically it doesn't really alter the flow of the war but being tied into the major alliances is death! When I played Spain & Turkey it was much better since you could build up and choose your entry point into the war. This is something you have to do yourself since that is way too much work to make 50 different scenario files for each minor. The minors ARE fun though and play much faster.

Adler: Why not just BUILD Security Divisions? At 40 shields you can pump them out of just about any decent city in 1 turn. When I was playing Germany I had 1 88, 1 Infantry and 1 Security Division being built every turn in 3 cities; Instant city garrison! At the end though I was taking cities too fast to keep up with that...

 

[Rocoteh]

Vlad, and Grizx; I know you guys like the larger powers, but before you go changing everything wholesale like that, please try some of the smaller countries. I think some of your ideas would make it veeeeery tough on them. Italy is worth playing, and I would love to see somebody wipe out most of Russia by week 51 on Sid with them; I don't think it can be done.

I'm thinking I made a BIG mistake trying Italy on Sid; I know I am a heavy builder-type but I seem to have hit a brick wall. If it wasn't for Japan the Axis would be stymied on all fronts just about. It is week 5 ,1940 and the French STILL have Paris. Damn Soviets keep hitting German subs in the English Channel and starting wars. I am stretched out and being attacked everywhere,including the French near Milan now. I am holding them off, but holding them off is not Winning. I hold East Africa only by virtue of the entire bomber force being deployed to Addis Abebba. Have sank almost 15 DDF and yet they still keep coming, along with BB/CA. I have no idea where England is getting them all from. My SS and CL are all but gone wiping out most of the DDFs. I MAY be able to turn this around but it hinges on my cities finally getting around to full production and me taking out the Suez Canal without losing everything else. That would help a ton! I was thinking of droping the game, but I will probably stay the course for at least a little longer...

Sasebo,

That really sounds hard. I guess it will be close to impossible
to win from such a situation.

Italy starts (as in reality) with one of the largest submarine-fleets
in the world.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Rocoteh,

I have been experimenting with diferent DDF specifications. They are pretty similar to the ones you recently posted. Anyway I think you are in the ball park with one exception. If the DDF's can carry troops, the AI just does not seem to build transports. As a result the AI tends not to build tanks, since only infantry can be carried on the DDF's. The lack of tanks particualry affects Britain, since the Japan AI is in love with naval infantry anyway. Still, in earlier versions the Japanese AI did seem to build some tanks.

When using DDF's with specs similar to those you posted for 1.6, but without troop transport capability, the AI builds a good range of naval units, incluing transports, BB's, and CA's.

So I think your new proposed specs are good, but DDF"s should not be able to carry troops as it unbalances the game so much.

****************************

Having now played many USA Sid level games plus several as Geramany and Japan, the pattern I notice is that the German AI does not do very well. (Now just to be clear, these are games in which I took away the DDF's troop transport capability and reduced the DDF stats).

This weakness of the German AI is especially evident when the US Atlantic fleet is very active in helping to clear the Atlantic in the Early game, but happens even if the US holds back.

With Britain strengthened to the degree it is, I have not seen the German AI be able to capture Britiain, even with the US holding back.
The German Ai also seems to have a hard time taking France and tends to leave it alone or give up.

The German AI usually ends up sititng in it's original terrain/cities surrounded by England, France, and Russia. Russia then takes Finalnd and Sweden. Cutrains for Germany.

If the German AI attacks Turkey, that is a good sign that the German AI may do a little better, last a little longer. and may even break through to northern Africa and the Suez canal. But even then, when Germany and Russia go to war , the German AI is unable to make much headway against Russia. The main opponent for the US human player almost always becomes the USSR, with Geramany nothing more than a speed bump..

I am experimenting now with a map that starts the Germans with all squares already irrigated and mined (excpet forests} and with railroads in all German squares; also exchanged all German pigs for cattle, which give the same amount of food, but one extra extra shield. i am hoping that this will give the German economy the boost it seems to need to give the AI a slightly better chance. I did try just giving Germany more workers at the start, but the AI never used them to make terrain improvements.

Another possibility is to give the northern Italian cities to Germany at the start of the scenario. In 1943 Germany did at first start by only occupying the northen Italian cities and seizing Rome. This twists history a bit. But I see no way that the German AI has any chamce of winning at SID level over a human player playing USA, USSR, or Britain. Yet another possibility is to give the Spanish cities to Germany but give them only garrison troops there to start. Again that twists history, but Spain was Fascist under Franco and not exactly an outright enemy of Germany.

The same goes for Japan. At SID level the Japanese AI just does not pose a serious threat. There is a short period at the start if you are playing Britain when you have to be very careful as you build your economy and make improvemements, but thats quickly passes.

I have experimented with giving the Japanese AI up to 15 or 20 more workers and two more transports at the start. I have aslo tried giving Thailand to the Japanese (same as you did with Bulgaria for the Germans), but with only garrison troops and just one Thai infantry. Those changes appear to work very well and help the Japanese AI considerably. Even starting with the Thai cities, Japan cannot do much with them for quite a while. And I don't think that overpowers Japan, even for a human player.

If any of these changes were to overpower theses Civs in the hands of a human player, this could be easily counterbalanced by some suggested self-imposed restrictions when playing them as the human player. (See below)

Grizx

Grizx,

Thank you for your comments.
I will probably remove the transport-capacity from DDF:s.
This capacity is more relevant in a scenario on a operational level.
Since WW2-Global is on the strategic level its not unrealistic
to remove it.

Its negative that German AI is unable to conquer France.
Your suggestions on how to change this are interesting. I will see
what I can do with regard to version 1.7. In version 1.6 there will be
no changes on this matter.

On Japan: I think its much harder to increase the power of Japan-AI
in a way that works well.

Although I do not plan to produce multiple AI-versions of WW2-Global
its possible I will make an experiment AI-version later this year.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Rocoteh,

I started reading this thread from the beginning, but I'm only up to message 1641, so I apologize if a later message addressed what I'm going to report.

I'm playing version 1.5 as the Germans. Driving deeply into SU east of Urals, I observed Russian troops abandoning their cities (2) in Siberia around Irkutsk and razing them! I have been playing CIVIII since it came out and I've never seen the AI raze its own cities before. It certainly is historic: Stalin's scorched earth policy in the Ukraine.

Also a Uboat on patrol inside Canadian waters in Hudson Bay observed a SAG of Brazilian ships intrude into Canadian waters at the northern entrance of Hudson Bay and run into a pack of American subs. A declaration of war followed. What surprised me was Brazil brazenly violating Canandian waters, which had already been intruded upon by an American wolfpack!

This is a wonderful scenario and I thank you and all of the play testers for doing such a great job.

Very respectfully,

Cowabunga

Cowabunga,

Thank you for the positive words.

On city-razing. Its near to 100% that this was done by raiding Japanese
forces. As you say AI razing its own cities have never been reported.

Welcome back with playtest-reports and more comments.

Best Regards

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Adler,

A very good start for the campaign in Russia.

It will be interesting to see when Soviet-AI launches its counter-attacks.
So far your losses have been very low.

Looking forward to follow this playtest.

Thank you for the reports and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Version 1.6 will probably be released within 3 days.

Rocoteh

 

[clearbeard]

Adler and Clearbeard,

Are you saying Germany when played by the AI is over-powered?

Or are you saying Germany when played by a human is over-powered?

Grizx

Definitely not overpowered German AI, but seems very very powerful in the hands of a human. However, the AI doesn't use draft well, like so many other things. It seems to use draftees almost exclusively for defensive placements. If German Security divisions were given, say, the same defense value as infantry and made the only draftable unit, the AI would be essentially unchanged, but the human would have a less ready supply of effective attackers, essentially for free (with such large cities and large food supplies, I could draft 2 per turn in several cities for the first several turns). That's the thought anyway, obviously the German AI is not overpowered!

As for the German AI, I wonder if it simply doesn't have enough offensive units at the start, and never builds up to the level a human can. It always seems to hit the Maginot line head on, which eats up the units it has at an amazing rate (as observed by British recon flights) before giving up, as noted by Grizx, and turning toward Russia with historically similar result. I have no clue how to fix this in a balanced fashion though.

 

[Rocoteh]

Definitely not overpowered German AI, but seems very very powerful in the hands of a human. However, the AI doesn't use draft well, like so many other things. It seems to use draftees almost exclusively for defensive placements. If German Security divisions were given, say, the same defense value as infantry and made the only draftable unit, the AI would be essentially unchanged, but the human would have a less ready supply of effective attackers, essentially for free (with such large cities and large food supplies, I could draft 2 per turn in several cities for the first several turns). That's the thought anyway, obviously the German AI is not overpowered!

As for the German AI, I wonder if it simply doesn't have enough offensive units at the start, and never builds up to the level a human can. It always seems to hit the Maginot line head on, which eats up the units it has at an amazing rate (as observed by British recon flights) before giving up, as noted by Grizx, and turning toward Russia with historically similar result. I have no clue how to fix this in a balanced fashion though.

The Maginot line should probably be deleted in a special AI-version.
The number of initial panzer-units should be increased by at least 100%
in such a version.

Rocoteh