WW2-Global

[eaglefox]

eaglefox,

The roads in Mexico are not connected to each other.

Thus I think AI will have problems to reinforce the current counterattack
in a relevant way. (Unless AI have improved the road-system of course.)

Rocoteh

Its not just the roads in Mexico Rocoteh, US production is very low indeed. They don't have more than 50 vehicles at the moment, perhaps 40. The Russians on the other hand have built 85 T34/76, 30 KV 1, 15 Mot. Rifle Divisions 1941, 20 Paratroopers, 98 Russian Infantry, 20 Yak-1, and 12 Pe-8. This is all after they were pushed back to the Izhma-Gorki-Kuybyshev-Gurev-Aralsk-Turkestan-Tashkent line (basically draw a line east of these cities and you'll get my current border with USSR - I control the above mentioned cities). As you can see from this all their major cities are in my hands (not to mention all their gold resources), and I had destroyed most of their force in the two wars. I can't find any logical reason why the Americans are not producing (even the Japs with their limited cities have 5 Yamamotos, 23 1941 Des. Flotillas, 101 Japanese Infantry, 116 Type 99 Mach Gunners, and they have been producing Marines for ever, and I don't know how many other units they have lost, definitely kept losing a lot of infantry, when the other countries were in Asia). I do know however, that the US is technologically far ahead of the rest - they had done Air 3 1944 by week 40 1942 . Even I hadn't done that (I thought 10% on science would be enough to keep me ahead of the rest and I hadn't expected the US to spend so much on tech and so little on units). This could be one reason why they don't have too many units - they are spending too much on tech. Another reason could be that, unlike the Russians, the Americans haven't faced an invasion of their mainland yet, and have therefore not bothered making too many units. Maybe, As I start my advance into US territory, I might start facing more units. So far though, nothing impressive.

 

[Grizx]

eaglefox:

It has been my belief for some time that the US AI is somewhat disadvantaged. For quite a while now I have modified the scenario a bit by doing the following:

1. Connecting all US cities by rail (realistic)

2. Adding a city in Puerto Rico (San Juan) Pop 1, Harbor.

3. Adding one gold to both Denver and San Francisco

4. Changing all US pigs to cattle for the extra shield (same food)

5. Adding wheat and cattle 12 resources to the midwest and southern cities and one cattle 12 to Chicago.

6. Adding a US airfield to NewFoundland.

These changes seem to make the US more competitive. I also think adding a transport wonder might help. Or just add some transports in the editor at the beginning.

For a human playing the US at SID level, these changes do not overpower the US, especially if the US human player realistically refrains from invading Mexico. Although with Mexico as it now is, it is not really worth the trouble to invade and improve.

Also, remember that you are playing at Emperor level which is basically a cakewalk for Germany. Try a SID level game as Germany with those changes to the US and you may get more of a challenge.

Grizx

 

[Sasebo]

Actually it may be 1.8; I have not been here for a week or two. Still been playing, but I have not been at war so nothing important to relate.It is now Week 40,1940. I plan on going to war with the Axis first, but am still building up my forces. I made the mistake of making an opening for the Axis troops to go to the middle east after they were done with France, and I have not been able to close the floodgates since. I have about 60+ German units headed for Damascus, and 36 Italian units parked next to Sevastopol. Needless to say, this is highly annoying. :thumbdown

Japan has wiped out all but 1 Chinese city and gotten as far west as Cairo! Germany has taken Damascus,Suez, and razed Amman,Jerusalem, Baghdad, and El Alamein. If I had not cancelled the ROP agreement with the Axis they would have inundated the middle east and Africa. My denying the ROP has slowed but not stopped their rampage. It will be interesting to see how they react when I finally do crush the units within my borders and cut them off...

The UK has held on to scattered cities in Iran/Afghanistan, Inda, and still hold Cairo. The French took out all of Libya, but East Africa still remains Italian. At times I still debate jumping in against the Allies first since that would be easier, but I made a plan and I will stick with it. Also, the Allies will be a real challenge when I do get to them.

Rocoteh: USSR is IMO one of the easiest, simply because of it's large initial size and the fact it can make peace whenever it wants. The units you get are good enough, and you get all the time in the world to build them. It will not be a cakewalk, but I never had that fear of getting wiped out that I usually do with France or China say! I took over Turkey, Greece,Yugoslavia, Sweden, Norway, Iceland and even Copenhagen without a hitch. I may lose one or two of those cities when I go to war with the Axis, but it was worth it to get the bases prepared and the boost to my economy.

Some interesting things on the AI this game: Japan has over 50+ SNLF, but no tanks. They have built Yamato's(4) and a fair number or transports / special transports. Given the AI lack of serious escort at times, their building of specials is probably a good thing. I have seen US, Italian,German, and Japanese major landings though. The US landed 5 Airborne on mainland Japan once, and I have seen at least 3 Panzer invasions with 5 tanks each on England;the AI is certainly trying!

I have spies in all the big countries; the US has very few marines, this early in the game it seems to prefer the airborne for offense, but they have over 190 Infantry! That is a real surprise. Germany has been doing a lot of research, I have been able to steal two techs from them. They still have like 50+ SS Infantry, and almost 50 Panzer IIIg. When I do start this fight, it is going to be a BIG one. I think Germany taking out mainland France and then not getting into a war with me has changed the way all the AI chose to build things, except maybe the Japanese. They all have a fair amount of Fighters, but not many bombers; I notice they tend to hurl them at targets with flak until they are all gone. Also,maybe you need to do something about the flak improvemnet for cities; I have seen 6 bombers in a row get blown out of the sky, and 3-4 in a row is quite common. Those city batteries seem far too powerful. I've had fleets of 60+ naval units with 2 AA rating or better each not even do a fraction of that level of damage.

I like the idea for generating leaders instead of Armies, I really think that will work out well. I plan on finishing this USSR game first though.

 

[eaglefox]

eaglefox:

It has been my belief for some time that the US AI is somewhat disadvantaged. For quite a while now I have modified the scenario a bit by doing the following:

1. Connecting all US cities by rail (realistic)

2. Adding a city in Puerto Rico (San Juan) Pop 1, Harbor.

3. Adding one gold to both Denver and San Francisco

4. Changing all US pigs to cattle for the extra shield (same food)

5. Adding wheat and cattle 12 resources to the midwest and southern cities and one cattle 12 to Chicago.

6. Adding a US airfield to NewFoundland.

These changes seem to make the US more competitive. I also think adding a transport wonder might help. Or just add some transports in the editor at the beginning.

For a human playing the US at SID level, these changes do not overpower the US, especially if the US human player realistically refrains from invading Mexico. Although with Mexico as it now is, it is not really worth the trouble to invade and improve.

Also, remember that you are playing at Emperor level which is basically a cakewalk for Germany. Try a SID level game as Germany with those changes to the US and you may get more of a challenge.

Grizx

Your remarks make sense but that still does not explain why Russia - a lot more disadvantaged than the US, is capable of maintaining a decent force, especially after losing all those cities. And I don't think its a problem with production capacity regarding the US. They are very far ahead in tech compared to other nations and I think they have been spending too much on tech, and this might not have left them with enough money to afford too many units. Moreover, because the US AI is so far away from the rest of the war, it faces very few, if any at all, invasions of its mainland. I think an AI that has been attacked a lot of times tends to build more units and spend more on its military to be prepared for the next time. This is probably why the US has been so unprepared for a relatively massive invasion force (200 units). It'll become clearer if my theory holds as my game progresses. Till then all is just speculation.

Regarding playing at SID level, I totally agree with you that this level will make all the AIs more competent. I have also, along with you, requested Roco to post saved games at SID level from the next time onwards and he has agreed. Removing armies from the game and instead making battle-created units as a leader that is capable of fighting will also make AIs tougher, since one of the main reasons for my rapid expansion is my 14 armies. So, if the special AI version for Germany has all these changes with SID level saved games, I will start posting my performance for that. That version is only a few days away, so I am afraid if I start a new German game now, I'll have to scrap it once the special AI version comes out. In fact I haven't started any new game with version 1.8 for that reason (I also wanted to see all the units Germany has - I have never seen the SS Panzer 1944 yet). I will keep posting my results for this game and I'll let you know if my theory holds.
Thanks.

 

[eaglefox]

Roco, just for historical accuracy, I think the Ruhr in Germany should be given iron and coal deposits which I think I has in the real world, and also an Iron Works from the Start of the game to show that its industrial output was far ahead any other German city or any other city in the world for that matter. Also Stalingrad in Russia should get iron and coal deposits so that Russia can make the Irons Works there.

 

[eaglefox]

Week 19, 1943.

Operation Liberty: Not much to report here at the moment. I have taken three more cities and have reached Acapulco. The inferior Mexican infrastucture has meant that the relatively small American and British counterattacks have been thwarted before they got a chance to fire, largely due to my air superiority and some use of ground troops. I have taken it a bit slow because I want to see if American production ever picks up or not. So far no luck, although there were some signs of increased output a few turns ago. Let's see how it goes.

On the eastern front, the Japanese naval campaign seems to have picked up some serious pace. They have already captured 7 cities in less that 15 weeks, which I think is pretty fast considering our frustrations with AI and naval assaults. I think the AI tends to give land invasion a greater priority to the extent that the Japanese AI would prefer sending troops to Africa before Phillipines. Now that there's nothing left on the mainland, they are pounding the US and the English in the Pacific. That is a good thing.

 

[Grizx]

eaglefox

Remember that the US does not have any really interesting or powerful offensive combat units, especially armor, until it gets the Pershing. Compared to German armor Shermans are definitely mediocre.

When I have played the US I have done just like the AI - produced very few ground combat units and thrown everything into improvements and research.
Marines, Paratroops, and Wovlerines, mobile artillery, amd some Sherman are the ground untis I produce when playing the US. In 1.8, Marines and paratroops aer now auto produced, and even then there are two version sof Marines. The AI's do not produce much artillery. Wolverines are purely defensive, and Shermans are patently inferior to German armor. Take away the coastal cities which are probably producing ships and take away some other cities producing aircraft, and there is really not all that much AI production capacity left.

I have always gone first for researching air 1943 which starts to give the US some good aircraft. Then I have gone for Iowas, and then for Pershings.

Between the Navy and the Air Force I have kept the continental US safe for Democracy with very few ground units.

Now granted, the AI is probably not going to use air and sea power as effectivley as a human player (massive understatement) but the AI may well be recognioxing the need to research armor that is somewhat cometitive with German panzers.

Then the US must transport those troops - another AI weakness. And the AI must also get a foothold on the Eurasion mainland, which is tough for the US AI to do and then hold on to.

US cities also need a lot of improvments to make them really productive, which takes time.

But again, I would be hesitant to judge too quickly based on an Emperor level game.

Grizx

 

[Adler17]

The Ruhr cities have huge coal deposits but nearly no iron, which is very rare in Germany. But indeed there should be the Iron Works.

Adler

 

[Rocoteh]

eaglefox,

Thank you for your reports and comments.

"Roco, just for historical accuracy, I think the Ruhr in Germany should be given iron and coal deposits which I think I has in the real world, and also an Iron Works from the Start of the game to show that its industrial output was far ahead any other German city or any other city in the world for that matter. Also Stalingrad in Russia should get iron and coal deposits so that Russia can make the Irons Works there"
eaglefox

Sounds reasonable. I will consider it.

I hope to release the special AI version within 2 days.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Sasebo,

Thank you for the report.

"Actually it may be 1.8; I have not been here for a week or two. Still been playing, but I have not been at war so nothing important to relate.It is now Week 40,1940. I plan on going to war with the Axis first, but am still building up my forces. I made the mistake of making an opening for the Axis troops to go to the middle east after they were done with France, and I have not been able to close the floodgates since. I have about 60+ German units headed for Damascus, and 36 Italian units parked next to Sevastopol. Needless to say, this is highly annoying." Sasebo
"
I understand that!

"Japan has wiped out all but 1 Chinese city and gotten as far west as Cairo!"
Sasebo

Japan seems to be stronger against China in version 1.8.
Its hard to see the reason.

"Some interesting things on the AI this game: Japan has over 50+ SNLF, but no tanks. They have built Yamato's(4) and a fair number or transports / special transports." Sasebo

The SNLF will probably go auto-produced only in version 1.9.

"I have spies in all the big countries; the US has very few marines, this early in the game it seems to prefer the airborne for offense, but they have over 190 Infantry! That is a real surprise." Sasebo

Yes, I agree.

"Also,maybe you need to do something about the flak improvemnet for cities; I have seen 6 bombers in a row get blown out of the sky, and 3-4 in a row is quite common. Those city batteries seem far too powerful. I've had fleets of 60+ naval units with 2 AA rating or better each not even do a fraction of that level of damage." Sasebo

This should be changed.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

WW2-Global Germany versus AI 1.0.

2005-04-18

To play this version of WW2-Global you must also have downloaded
the 134 MB folder available at Post 1.

WW2-Global Germany versus AI 1.0 removed after 408 downloads.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Comment on WW2-Global Germany versus AI:

The Army-unit have been removed.
Instead the battle created unit is a "fighting" leader that
with the Land 1941 tech can be upgraded to a General.

Poland now control Halifax and will thus not surrender even if
the cities in Europe should be occupied.

Free units for cities increased for communism and heavily
increased for democracy.


France OOB reinforced with:

15 Renault Tank units
65 Infantry divisions
20 Bloch MB 152 (Fighters)

Britain OOB reinforced with:

20 Spitfire
20 Hurricane
40 Special Fortress units

US OOB reinforced with:

10 Transports


Soviet OOB reinforced with:

50 T-26
103 Russian Infantry divisions
7 Fortress units (In Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad)

I have worked with many solutions for this special AI version.
The current one of course need playtesting to be fine-tuned.

Saved games for Emperor and SID levels will be uploaded later.

Its possible there will be more special AI-versions for other Civs.
It depends on general reactions on this one.

Rocoteh

 

[kafkaesk]

Although I don´t have the opportunity to play the scenario much, from what I´ve experienced so far it´s very impressive work!

However, I´ve read some posts about concerns regarding the unrealistic effectiveness of the railroad-system, which is indeed an annoying factor sometimes.
I don´t know if that has been considered before, but here´s my (perhaps moronic) idea/suggestion:
Since the game engine doesn´t allow toning down the movement rate railroads provide, how about dropping the road / railroad concept altogether and make regular roads represent the actual railroad system - the movement cost is up for discussion, perhaps 1/5 would be reasonable.
With One-Week-turns, kicking regular roads out of the building system in favor of representing them with the standard (or slightly modified) terrain movement cost doesn´t seem too unrealistic to me - especially in times of war, moving through only recently conquered and thus rather "uncooperative" lands a lot.
(Don´t hesitate to humiliate me with historical facts proving the opposite, though... )

Oh, and on a sidenote: in case it´s technically possible, how about giving the fascist (and perhaps communist, but maybe a worker-producing "wonder" would be the better choice there) governments the opportunity to draft workers instead of providing an increase in efficiency?

I hope these comments make any sense, and keep up the great work, Rocoteh!

 

[Rocoteh]

Although I don´t have the opportunity to play the scenario much, from what I´ve experienced so far it´s very impressive work!

However, I´ve read some posts about concerns regarding the unrealistic effectiveness of the railroad-system, which is indeed an annoying factor sometimes.
I don´t know if that has been considered before, but here´s my (perhaps moronic) idea/suggestion:
Since the game engine doesn´t allow toning down the movement rate railroads provide, how about dropping the road / railroad concept altogether and make regular roads represent the actual railroad system - the movement cost is up for discussion, perhaps 1/5 would be reasonable.
With One-Week-turns, kicking regular roads out of the building system in favor of representing them with the standard (or slightly modified) terrain movement cost doesn´t seem too unrealistic to me - especially in times of war, moving through only recently conquered and thus rather "uncooperative" lands a lot.
(Don´t hesitate to humiliate me with historical facts proving the opposite, though... )

Oh, and on a sidenote: in case it´s technically possible, how about giving the fascist (and perhaps communist, but maybe a worker-producing "wonder" would be the better choice there) governments the opportunity to draft workers instead of providing an increase in efficiency?

I hope these comments make any sense, and keep up the great work, Rocoteh!

kafkaesk,

Thank you for the positive words.

I think its a good idea. Now and then I have considered to remove
the railroads and its possible I will do it in a future version.

In fact railroads have been reduced heavily from version 1.0 to 1.8.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Proserpine]

Racoteh, can you (or someone) post a brief summary of the unique features of this version please? What's the point? I read a bit about it, but missed the opening discussions. Not sure if I want to download it without knowing a bit more . . .

Sorry please ignore this, just reread your post above . . .

 

[Rocoteh]

Racoteh, can you (or someone) post a brief summary of the unique features of this version please? What's the point? I read a bit about it, but missed the opening discussions. Not sure if I want to download it without knowing a bit more . . .

Sorry please ignore this, just reread your post above . . .

Proserpine,

You can read about the unique features in post 2752.

What is thte point?

Several posters have asked for a special AI-version that gives
more challange than the regular version.

Rocoteh

Saved games for Germany versus AI 1.0 at Emperor and SID levels
now available at Post 9.

 

[Grizx]

Sasebo,

Your USSR game sounds very interesting. The USSR is the only major power I have not played mch at all. That is one of the nice things about this scenario. When you overdose on one couintry there is always another with a whole new set of challenges to try out.

Would be very interested on which Soviet units you find most useful, particularly aircraft.

Also in what order are you building city improvements. And where have you placed your Forbidden City?

Thanks very much

Grizx

 

[eaglefox]

Rocoteh, man you work fast! If only I had half the energy you have.

 

[Rocoteh]

Rocoteh, man you work fast! If only I had half the energy you have.

eaglefox,

Thank you.

I have invested many hours in this version the last days.
Hopefully I will able to complete Multiplayer version 1.1
before this month have ended.

There is a special reason to why I have allocated extra-time
to Civ work:
I will be away without computer and Internet-connection
for maybe 60-70% of the days in May.

Rocoteh

 

[Adler17]

Rocoteh, I have just saw the AI version of in the editor: This will make the game much harder. I hope so. I will give infos from tomorrow on. However I changed twice: Uboats have all blitz and I gave all German cities all improvements. This should reflect the great infrasturcture Germany had when war broke out. Now I can only say this: I can´t await to take revenge for the assault on Gleiwitz radio station !

Adler

P.S.: You should let the British carrier start out of a harbour. Then they are filled with planes...

Adler