WW2-Global

[Rocoteh]

Operation Sealion will be soon, will have some sreenshots for you!
and im getting along good with the russians for now but i just dont have the army to invade them yet! will need probably some 170 tanks and 50 infantry ... plus LOTS of fighters to shoot those bombers down .... oh and about 30 artillery ... so i guess im gonna have to invade them by summer of 42' .. if the war starts earlier ( which probably will cuz of the italians) im gonna have a hard time lol .

Bart S.,

That sounds interesting.

I am looking forward to see the screenshots.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

BTW has somebody version 1.7 (savegames) online? After all I strongly dislike the insane strength of Turkey in the current version. I understand the reasoning behind the changes but I dislike the new defensive superpower.
I totally botched my strategy on joining my forces in the middle east since Turkey turned out to be a Phyrrus victory for the Wehrmacht in my game since it costed me more resources than any other European power (exept Russia which I didn t dare to touch, because I lost half of my troops in Turkey.

PS I encountered a strange bug, the game is very likely to freeze when I use bombers (He 111) to bombard either Crete or Suez. Never happened anywhere else.

PPS Why there is a Norwegian unit in west of Kopenhagen?

IarnGreiper,

OK, notes have been taken on this issue with regard to version 2.0.

On the Norwegian unit in Denmark:
Its a bug that will be corrected in 2.0.

Rocoteh

 

[Hyperborean]

Germany - v 1.9 - Sid - Week 25, 1941

Brazil has eliminated Peru. Argentina has declared war on Brazil. Japan has conquered Medan on Sumatra, and Langchow in China. In Africa they are approaching Nigeria. They have razed Riyadh, Mascat, Port Sudan, Dongola and Khartoum. Britain has conquered all of Italy's east african cities. I don't know exactly when this happened, but it must have happened quickly, because I've missed it entirely. The Italian territory is essentially reduced to Italy.
I have conquered all of the Soviet union, except three cities on Camchatka (sp?). Urumtsi is mine. And the assault on Kashgar is about to begin. Turkey has been eliminated. The fortresses were hard to take. I only took out the ones I had to, and it still costed me a lot of units. The Greek tanks landed in Anatolia, next to my panzers, so it was easy to take them out. And now that the Greeks only have 6 infantry left I'm going to make a very historical airdrop over Crete to conquer the island. If I remember history correctly I'm only running a couple of weeks behind schedule. The Wehrmacht attacked Yugoslavia and Greece in the spring of 1941 in preparation for Operation Barbarossa. The difference would be that in my scenario the Soviet union has already been defeated.
Some of my forces, mainly the artillery, are now on their way to Tibet to finally take the remaining mountain-cities. But the others, some 80% of my forces, are being loaded into transports to take the war overseas. Corsica has already been conquered, and Malta is the next target. Operation Seelöwe has begun!

 

[Rocoteh]

i am sorry if this question was asked before, but is there an estimated release date for the version with the larger map?

eaglefox,

No problem.
I have been away many days during the summer and will continue
to be that until late September.
After that however I will be at home most of the time until mid April.
WW2-Global 2.0 with huge map will have high priority until its complete.

I hope I will be able to set a realistic target-date in early October.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Turns 32 to 36 report.

Production: 36 city improvements, 1 Panzer IIIe, 1 Recon Plane, 4 SS, 5 Ju87b, 1 transport, 2 DD Flotilla, 2 Me110 and 1 workers. Drafted 16 Inf -- 4 per turn max.

Captured Algiers and Rabat. London is getting whittled down -- I'm shelling with artillery and naval guns and attacking with fast units that can withdraw if losing.

Losses: 4 subs, 3 Inf, 1 SS, 4 Panzer IIIe, 1 Panzer II, 2 Hitler, and 2 88s to the French in Africa (but I still wiped out their tank stack of 7 Somua.

Attacked British and US fleets -- sank 5 Light Cruisers, 4 DDs, 1 transports, 5 DD Flotilla, 1 BB and 2 subs.

The Allies made peace with the Soviets.

German's stole Sea 1940 from the US.

WVCivnut,

Comments on reports turn 29-36.

It seems like you have established a very good strategic situation.

In version 2.0 it will no longer be possible to steal technology.
The reason is that this change will make AI stronger versus human players.
I will also look over the rules for draft.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

I just wasted 2 hours of my time, so im gonna warn everybody. The countries in south america shouldnt be played, it is a waste of time, they have no resourses (in real life they had, at least, iron and coal), they have no railroads (in real life there were railroads all over south america since the 1900s) and they have almost no military. Also you have to wait about 5 minutes between turns and your turns only last about 20 seconds.

I forgot to say: there are some countries you cant contact unless you see one of their units.(ex. chile and venezuela) Also there are only about 12 countries in your espionage screen instead of 29.

Bart S.,

After the release of the first versions of WW2-Global there was
a constant discussion on South America.
Critiques meant that it was far to easy for US to conquer South America.

Then changes were made.
I think the current map of South America is realistic:

1939 South America had less than 100 million in population.
Its true there were railroads. However how much troops you can transport
per week is also a question of available rolling stock.
Thus Germany for example during WW2 seldom could transport more
than 6 divisions per week.

The railroads in Civ 3 creates absurd results! You can transport to much
troops during a given time. For that reason its my intention to remove them
in version 2.0 and replace them with roads (that represent infrastructure
in general) with increased move-rate.

You will still be able to build railroads at a very high price (in invested working
time). This will represent heavy investments in rolling stock.

On resources: There are oil in Venezuela and rubber in Brazil.
However I agree that iron and coal resources should be added.

Thus I think the current role South America has is relevant, although
I know there will always be an opinion that think it should be excluded
from the scenario.
With regard to the Order of Battles for the nations in South America:
They are accurate.
The armed forces of these nations were not great September 1939.
Exceptions to this are the naval forces of Argentina, Brazil and Chile.
This have also been reflected.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

I want to consolidate all my comments:

First, this is an excellent scenario, however after my first attempt I made some changes to the game:
- The infantry west of Kopenhagen shouldn t be Norwegian, I changed them to Danish in my game
- I gave Amsterdam, Hamburg and Kopenhagen more culture, which resulted in moving the Danish borders north, which seems to fix the issue with Norway demanding Germany to retreat the mines in the North Sea.
- Some cities like Vienna does not have railroad in the city square (fixed that for all major cities), added railroad to Amsterdam (the were lots of good railroads in this area)
- Installed a City on the Canary islands (Spanish, size3) and transformed terrain to hills. The Canary islands were somewhat important for Spain in that era. [There were even rumors that the secret submarine shelters on Fuerteventura were used by Germany as well. (There are some German plane wrecks on an airfield in the south, saw them myself)]
- Moved most spanish subs to the Atlantic (both Canary Islands and the La Curuna area). As far as I know this better reflects reality, but I may be wrong here.
- Revamped Turkey to be tough to blitz, but no second Maginot line de luxe and added the historical railway which made Turkey important (I never understood why Hitler didn t invade Turkey). Terrain is still rough and favorable for the defending party.
- Aded some infantry for Mexico. They were week compared to the US but not an easy pushover like Denmark for Germany.
- Added infanry to Venezuela. Otherwise the US can buy a medium unit at Panama and take Caracas too easy

Things I feel that need improvement, but still unsure:

Turkish subs and British Cruisers in the eastern Med sea. They always caused war because of run overs. Perhaps England can use a destroyer here?

The British special fortresses on the English country side. They seem to distract the AI a little but are of little actual use. The savest way to invade the British islands is via Scotland, since the cities there are weak and badly defended. From there you can drive your Panzers savely to London without interaction with those fortresses. Plymouth is the only city protected by them. It takes the Luftwaffe some months to destroy the fortresses afterwards. However they all became elite that way.

Corsica is too tough, perhaps add another land tile for better invasion.

Crete is too easy to take for the Germans. In real life, Germany suffered heavy losses and abstained from taking other islands by paratroopers.

Same with Cyprus (in my last game this was the only city Italy was able to take over )

Give the Italian AI the possibility to do something sensible. They always tend to come late in any theatre of war. While Italy gave a bad performance in WW2, the AI even turns out to be worse. Maybe give them lousy transports every few turns?

IarnGreiper,

On the Norwegian infantry in Denmark:

Its a bug that will be corrected in version 2.0.

On missing railroads in major cities.

There will be no railroads at start in version 2.0 (discussed in
previous post)

On Canary Islands:

A good idea!

On Turkey:

I want more feedback on the current solution before making
new changes.

On Mexico:

I regard the current Order of Battle as accurate.

On Turkish subs:

I think its worth to remember that even without subs AI will
go to war witout any logic reason.

On British homeland defense:

The current solution must be reworked.

On Crete:

Yes I agree. It should be harder to occupy.

On Italy:

However Italys participation in WW2 was a series of failures.
(For different reasons)
Changes here could produce some very unrealistic results.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Conscripting infantry is really powerful in this scenario since Germany has so many cities that generate huge amount of food. I also use it a lot. Especially for garrison purpose.

My game is doing great so far but the AI makes so many mistakes that I don't see how I can lose the game at this point. I'll still play a couple of more turns but so far, there are a few things the player can do to increase the challenge:

1) The AI is really bad to protect its navy. I'm my game as Germany, I've destroyed the English and American navy with only a few loses. I used a simple tactic: hit and run from my coastal cities. The trick is to only attack navy units that are in range so that you may attack a stack and return to your port without ending your move at sea. This basically removes any counter attack possibilites on your navy from the AI. Do this for about 10-15 turns and you'll basically wipe out the AI navy. Unfortunately by doing so, you remove a big part of the fun factor of conquering the sea. So my recommendation is: don't use it!!! I know it sounds funny considering I'm the one who's currently using this tactic but in my next game, I'll force myself to LEAVE any navy units for at least one turn at sea. This will create an opportunity for the AI to attack my navy. That should make the war at sea more challenging.

2) Armies. I never thought they were too powerful but for some reason, the AI doesn't have any (or I haven't seen one). So that creates a situation where the player is the only one with armies, obviously that creates an unfair advantage. Disband starting armies and any leader that pops up, uses it only to rush city improvement. I've read about the enhanced AI scenario where leader are behaving differently, I'm looking forward to try it.

3. Conscripting infantry. I don't know how to tackle this one. Maybe limit yourself to a maximum amount per turn or something. A lot of players have good ideas on this. I'll probably try something like 4 max per turn.

DarthCycle,

I think all the above are interesting ideas.
Its a very good idea to introduce house-rules where AI produces
strange results.

I doubt we will ever see an AI that is much better than the current.
Even if there should be a Civ X in the future!
The reason is that it never will produce any good
return on invested money.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

The problem by not killing the fleet is the annoying bombarfment of the allied fleets. So I can only hope the next map is better...

Adler

Adler,

Removing shore-bombardment would not produce good results though.
Maybe the impact of it should be reduced however.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Turns 37 to 39 report.

Production: 29 city improvements, 9 Panzer IIIe, 1 SS, 1 Ju87b, 1 AA Cruiser, and 1 88. Drafted 12 Inf -- 4 per turn max.

Captured Tunis, Casablanca, and Malta.

Losses: 1 SS, 4 Panzer IIIe, 2 Ju87b and 1 88.

Attacked British and US fleets -- 1 BB, 1 BC, 5 DDs, 2 transports, 1 DD Flotilla, and 1 subs.

Those anti-aircraft batteries as city improvements should be toned down some. 100% kill ratio is a bit much.

WVCivnut,

On anti-aircraft batteries:

Their impact have already been heavy reduced compared to
earlier versions.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Nice scenario, but I am having the same problem as with your WWI and Barbarossa scenarios. The computer only tends to build the high defense, extremely low offence Heavy Machine Gunners.

This means that the AI is locked in place for the whole game, and all you have to do is destroy their offensive capability once, without a threat of them rejuvenating it.

Besides that, it is glorious. Great Job.

I also love how the Germans only get Marines and Paras through wonders. Makes you use them sparingly.

Sobieski II,

Thank you for the positive words.

The Heavy Machine Gunners are a problem.
I will remove them in version 2.0.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

I´m totaly addicted to this great Scenario
Thanks Rocothe for an excellent work!
Reading some of the msgs here about how stupied the AI is doing, well
myself plays after house rules for example when I play as USA
I do follow history meaning I never tend to invade south America, in my humble opinion
that would be like taking candy from kids So to make the game more exciting for me
I stay passive and build up my home defence and when Japan attacks Pearl Habor
the time for war begins.
I play USA at emperor level and right now Germany is making an major offensive into Russia and the Nazis do have to Armies in the lead. The Armies aint as hard as you now only can have to units in each so the AI armies usally dies quit fast. Myself like
them to mush so pleas dont take them away.Insteed people should tell more about there own houserules to make the game more challenging....

civ3Monkey,

Thank you for the positive words.

Yes, I agree:

Its a good idea to introduce house-rules to make play AI against harder.
The game-engine sets sharp limits for what be done with the scenario.

For example there are no stacking rules. However one can introduce
a house rule that limits stacking (for the human player) to 10 units.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

As has been mentioned, I find that the Japanese are capturing Chinese cities rather too quicky, perhaps for the next version (1941 ) it would be good to fortify the borders more (like in the Pacfic Conquest), giving some forts to the Chinese/Communists etc.

ComradeDavo,

OK. Notes have been taken.

I will see what I can do to increase play-balance with regard to
this aspect in version 2.0.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

saulosi,

Thank you for your comments.

"I hadn't seen much of the British airforce yet, so they must have just moved them in there. Needless to say, I jumped on it. I had to get through some French units, and almost all of my Panzers needed rest from the previous battles. I couldn't let this great opportunity slip away, I beat my way through the French units and destroyed all of the British ground troops except for 1 AA unit that had 1 hit point left! But, I didn't have any units left that could reach them! . Thankfully, before I gave up and ended my turn, I remembered the Armies that Germany gets at the start. I hadn't used them yet, so I loaded one up with infantry and marched into battle. It was quite satisfying to destroy 30+ aircraft w/o losing anybody in the process." saulosi

I call that a crushing victory!

"It is now Week 52, 1940 and I've captured Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, France, Spain, Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Yugoslavia, Greece, Turkey, and 6 or so Soviet border cities. My U-boats own the Atlantic. I have 6 Bismark Class Battleships and an Aircraft Carrier in my Atlantic Fleet. I've turned my attention to Africa, and eliminated the British presence in Egypt and then Saudi Arabia (with the help of the Japanese ). I figured I'd take all of Africa before turning on the Soviet Union."
saulosi

A very good start. I am looking forward to follow this playtest.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

WVCivnut,

Comments on reports up to turn 57:

I assume The War in the East will be a hard struggle.

If one compare your losses with AI:s losses the situation looks very good.
AI continues to produce HMG units. I will remove them in version 2.0.
I will also look over production-strategy for Soviet.

This will be very interesting to follow.

Thank you for the reports and screenshots.
Welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Started an Italy game the other day just for kicks, didn't do to bad managed to hold onto most of Africa and even manage to begin kicking British butt. Weird thing happened around Week 4, or 5 1940 an very large American Destroyer fleet showed up outside of Ethiopia easily 30+ WW1 and 1939 destroyers.

By the next turn they had vanished back towards India, I still have no idea what they where doing there.

Robziel,

Yes, I agree: A strange move by AI.

Sometimes AI makes moves that seems to be done without any
logic reason.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Germany vs AI - Sid level

Week 12, 1942

Afrika Corps strikes again!
All of North Africa and almost all of Central Africa now lies under German control. The Panzers are surging forward faster than ever, and it didn't seem very good for the allies. Half of Italian Ethiopia now is under German control. The rest should be liberated soon. Only a handful of cities remain under allied hands in Central Africa. I think Africa should be taken care of soon enough.
However, I have some chilling news. I found out that GB somehow has managed to research Land 1944. I do not quite understand how they managed it, but I am hoping Rocoteh could explain it. I thought their science would take a hit since they have been constantly losing cities for some time. Even America has done all of the 1942 techs while I am barely starting to get into the 1942 technology. This may have a terrible consequence as I have nothing to throw at their powerful tank. They only have two at the moment, but the numbers can increase very rapidly and if they start sending those in stacks, I'll be in trouble. Let's just hope I can hit them fast and hard enough to evict them from Africa and Asia. Then I can take on Russia without too much trouble. France is more or less gone now. Most of its major cities now lie under my control. But Britain and Mongomery might start giving me trouble in Africa. Let's see how it goes.

eaglefox,

Thank you for the report.

On British research:

The reason must be that you are playing on Sid-level.
AI-research is very, very fast on that level.

My impression from reading many playtest-reports is that US-AI
seldom handles its forces well on the offensive. It will be interesting
to see if this playtest also confirms that.

Welcome back with more reports.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Hyperborean,

Comment on report week 20, 1941.

"In Siberia a force of some 30 infantry divisions and a few panzers are destroying the remains of the Soviet union. Yakutsk conquered. New Soviet capital Ayan. Only 8 Soviet cities remains." Hyperborean

It seems like the Soviet Militia Wonder comes to late. I must rework that.

"I have begun mass-producing my new panzer: IIIg. I'm falling behind in the tech devolopment, but once I'm in full control of all of Russia I hope to catch up with the others." Hyperborean

The tech-race will be even harder in version 2.0, since it will not be possible
to steal tech anymore.

"I used the IIIg in my invasion of Yugoslavia, and the panzers were much needed there. The Yugoslavians had a considerable force of some 40 infantry divisions and 10 tank divisions. It took me two weeks to conquer the city. Yugoslavia eliminated."
Hyperborean

That is interesting.

"It's very hard to fight destroyer flotillas when they are close to friendly ports."
Hyperborean

I think the adding of destroyer-flotillas have been positive for AI.

"An odd thing just happened after I declared war on Greece. The Yugoslavian fleet had remained on the same spot since the start of the game, but suddenly they appeared near the coast west of Brest! I couldn't believe my eyes. They had been transported there somehow." Hyperborean

Strange!

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

IarnGreiper,

"For some reason unknown to me I can t negociate an ROP with Thailand (which I need to crush british Singapore).
For me crushing GB is easiest since they have no offensive ground units which enables me to blitz them (the French for example pick of my wounded tanks with ther tanks)."
IarnGreiper

Thailand is in a locked alliance with the Axis. That is the reason.

With regard to Britain: I plan to add auto-production of armoured brigades
in London and Cairo.

"Operation Weserübung was far too easy for me taste. Did that with few infantry and air support only." IarnGreiper

The solution is probably to increase the cost for Germany with regard
to production of transports.

"The invasion of Ireland almost became a desaster because of US Airforce interferance. I had to reembark my landing force because my tanks got badly damaged in the woods south of Befast" IarnGreiper

That is very interesting!

"While the German Africa corps is still marching south in may 1940 the German India corps totally halted its drive east to fight off the endless hordes of bolchevistic Chinese infantry." IarnGreiper

An interesting move from AI.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Germany - v 1.9 - Sid - Week 25, 1941

Brazil has eliminated Peru. Argentina has declared war on Brazil. Japan has conquered Medan on Sumatra, and Langchow in China. In Africa they are approaching Nigeria. They have razed Riyadh, Mascat, Port Sudan, Dongola and Khartoum. Britain has conquered all of Italy's east african cities. I don't know exactly when this happened, but it must have happened quickly, because I've missed it entirely. The Italian territory is essentially reduced to Italy.
I have conquered all of the Soviet union, except three cities on Camchatka (sp?). Urumtsi is mine. And the assault on Kashgar is about to begin. Turkey has been eliminated. The fortresses were hard to take. I only took out the ones I had to, and it still costed me a lot of units. The Greek tanks landed in Anatolia, next to my panzers, so it was easy to take them out. And now that the Greeks only have 6 infantry left I'm going to make a very historical airdrop over Crete to conquer the island. If I remember history correctly I'm only running a couple of weeks behind schedule. The Wehrmacht attacked Yugoslavia and Greece in the spring of 1941 in preparation for Operation Barbarossa. The difference would be that in my scenario the Soviet union has already been defeated.
Some of my forces, mainly the artillery, are now on their way to Tibet to finally take the remaining mountain-cities. But the others, some 80% of my forces, are being loaded into transports to take the war overseas. Corsica has already been conquered, and Malta is the next target. Operation Seelöwe has begun!

Hyperborean,

For some reason it seems like Japan-AI is the worst when it comes
to raze cities.

Its interesting that your invasions of Yugoslavia and Greece come so
close to historical dates.

I am really looking forward to follow how the invasion of Britain turns
out. In this playtest British AI have had some time to build up its forces.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh