WW2: What if Spain had joined the Axis side during the war?
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If Spain joined Italy wouldn't have been the butt of WW2 jokes,
Spain would have.
Assuming Spain could attack Gib. (they didn't have the guns to do it,
and would have had to invite the Germans in. ,and Gib has historically held against Spain and France at the hight of their power in the napoleanic wars
It isn't an easy nut to crack)
The British would have invaded the Canary Islands (and still held Egypt)
and well as all of Spains other overseas possessions, the food supply from the US/Canada would have been cut, the Iron Ore trade from spain would end.
Otherwise they would have been Broke, Beaten and starved, and Franco
wouldn't have lived to the 70's.
Spain would have.
Assuming Spain could attack Gib. (they didn't have the guns to do it,
and would have had to invite the Germans in. ,and Gib has historically held against Spain and France at the hight of their power in the napoleanic wars
It isn't an easy nut to crack)
The British would have invaded the Canary Islands (and still held Egypt)
and well as all of Spains other overseas possessions, the food supply from the US/Canada would have been cut, the Iron Ore trade from spain would end.
Otherwise they would have been Broke, Beaten and starved, and Franco
wouldn't have lived to the 70's.
Ace
Emperor
You underestimate Spainish troops. Spain was weak economically and militarily, but her fighting troops were first rate. The "Blue" division had a very distinguished career in Russia.
As to Gib, It was never expected that Spain would take it by herself. Hitler's plan was to get Spain to join the war so German troops could pass thru Spain to get at Gib.
As to Gib, It was never expected that Spain would take it by herself. Hitler's plan was to get Spain to join the war so German troops could pass thru Spain to get at Gib.
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
I have been thinking about this alot recently.
I reckon that Spain would have been a significant help to the Nazis, firstly as mentioned because of taking Gibraltar, which would then lead the way for Axis domination of the meditarianian. This would then lead to the Axis MAYBE being able to win in North Africa (as having better control over supply routes and also additional troops from spain) or at least being able to retain a STALEMATE. Either outcome would have meant that allied invasion of Italy would either have been dealyed....giving the Italians more time to work on building their army up....or prevented because of the allies not being able to build up the troop number and get a good base in Africa to launch from. If the Axis had managed to keep the allies from winning in North Africa and thus stopping them from going into Italy, I think that would have significantly helped them as the large number of German troops sent to Italy could have been sent else where.
I reckon that Spain would have been a significant help to the Nazis, firstly as mentioned because of taking Gibraltar, which would then lead the way for Axis domination of the meditarianian. This would then lead to the Axis MAYBE being able to win in North Africa (as having better control over supply routes and also additional troops from spain) or at least being able to retain a STALEMATE. Either outcome would have meant that allied invasion of Italy would either have been dealyed....giving the Italians more time to work on building their army up....or prevented because of the allies not being able to build up the troop number and get a good base in Africa to launch from. If the Axis had managed to keep the allies from winning in North Africa and thus stopping them from going into Italy, I think that would have significantly helped them as the large number of German troops sent to Italy could have been sent else where.
General Brown
Go Boston Sports!
Xen said:
Yes, it definately would draw troops from other German formations. But, having control of Gibraltar would've been a plus, and maybe they coukd've invaded Morocco, and Algeria.
yaroslav
Emperor
What advantages could provide Algeria or Morroco?
NeoDemocrat
MOS MOS MOS
They would have made no real differnce, except Portugal may have invaded them and taken over more land.
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
Preventing the allied invasion of Italy!yaroslav said:
John Bull
British
Was Franco not Hitler's and Mussolini's ally anyway? Perhaps he was just biding his time; waiting 'til Spain had properly recovered from her disastrous civil war. Spain was always extremely accomadating to the axis (B.T.W. I love the way in which everyone here is so heavily influenced by a Civ2 scenario that they call it 'the axis;' the Rome-Berlin Axis was nowhere near as important as the Pact of Steel.) ; and this is illustrated by the British attitude. At the start of the war, dead seamen would have false documents planted on them, and their corpses would then be strategically placed to find their way to the beaches of occupied France, where the Germans would use the information thereof to plan strategy, and would therefore be outwitted. They soon caught on, however, and the British thus began dumping 'red herring' corpses not on the coasts of France, but on those of Spain. They knew that the false information would find its way to Germany just as fast, and that it would appear to the Germans that the documents were genuine, as they had been put not on their doorstep, but on that of an obliging neighbour, a secret mistress their relationship with whom the British were not meant to know about. This nifty piece of counter-intelligence and its effect (the Germans began to plan offensives based on information from the fake documents delivered to the Spanish) show that Spain was bending over backwards to accomodate the Germans, and it is my belief that given a few years, when they had recovered from their last war sufficiently, they would not have taken much persuading to enter on the side of Hitler and Mussolini.
rilnator
Emperor
As long as Germany was winning. Thats why Franco was hesitant in the first place. After gaining power he didn't want to throw it all away fighting on the losing side in someone else's war.
spain allow hitlers panzers to take gibraltar.
w/ the fall of gibraltar the mediterenean is no longer an allied lake.
rommel gets his supplys.
suez falls
rommel links up in palestine w/ other divisions and take the oil in the area
axis victory? - ofcousre 'barbarossa' never happens
w/ the fall of gibraltar the mediterenean is no longer an allied lake.
rommel gets his supplys.
suez falls
rommel links up in palestine w/ other divisions and take the oil in the area
axis victory? - ofcousre 'barbarossa' never happens
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
Okay, let´s assume Spain declares war on the allies in 1941 with the begin of the Africa campaign. Then there is no hope for the British to hold Gibraltar. And no chance to supply Malta and Egypt fast enough. And with the lack of supplies and being an axis sea Rommel is able to take Egypt and Arabia. I concur with you. Until now. But Hitler wanted the war with Russia. He would have declared war in 1942 then, but in a time much earlier. Turkey and Iran would have declared war on the allies. Rommel now would either attack Russia in central Asia or India. Japan would then launch an attack on the British holdings and at least now there would be a war between the US and the axis. But Hitlers situation would be much better now. With the mediterranean under axis control the way to the Arabian oil fields is secure. The Russians would be pulled back, India attacked, the US and Britain at war...
Adler
Adler
privatehudson
The Ultimate Badass
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It's one of those delusional fantasies some people have 
the best 'or worst' scenario is spain allowing hitler pass through their territory before 'barbarossa', surely the german panzers would have won.
such diplomatic talks did occur, canaries (spelling?) was sent to talk franco into it but he did the opposite (he hated hitler).
and ofcourse Hitler pretty much fought WW2 in the Western side of the world, italy just got her self in so many messes that germany had to always help
such diplomatic talks did occur, canaries (spelling?) was sent to talk franco into it but he did the opposite (he hated hitler).
and ofcourse Hitler pretty much fought WW2 in the Western side of the world, italy just got her self in so many messes that germany had to always help
Persia_Immortal
Stealthy Assasin
I dun think the Spainish would do any significant damage to the Allies cause
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