WW2: What if Spain had joined the Axis side during the war?

[Adler17]

I didn´t mean a war between Britain and the US but the US joining the British in the war!

Adler

 

[FriendlyFire]

Wasnt the blue divison an all volunteer ?? as well as being equiped with german arms and uniforms ?

Frnaco was hedging hes bets. I think he was quite aware of Italy's weakness at that time. Had he joinned, I wonder if they would recieved quanities of german supplies ? Looking at other german allies I think not. I wonder how active spain would have been in the war. A cautious franco whould have been much like Finnland. Pretty much inactive.

Hitlers designs were manly in the east. If I remember Rommel asked for the forces intended for Gib invasion to be instead directed to Egypt. Where he gambled it all on hes rush for the suez.

 

[Ozz]

Wasnt the blue divison an all volunteer ?? as well as being equiped with german arms and uniforms ?

Frnaco was hedging hes bets.

Having a group of soldiers from another "neutral" country doesn't
make that country an active ally, The British had an "eagle"
squadron of Americans.

The Germans had groups from all the conquered nations working
for them, they even tried to create a "St George" divison of
British.

 

[privatehudson]

And all they managed was about 40 or so soldiers and almost no officers

Mind you we never felt the tracks of a panzer down our streets...

 

[Ozz]

And all they managed was about 40 or so soldiers and almost no officers

Mind you we never felt the tracks of a panzer down our streets...

And that was from thousands of prisoners, behind barbed wire in POW
camps with only disaster after disaster for news. Think it speaks more
for British character than panzers in the street.

 

[Adler17]

Friendly fire, even if the Spanish took only Gibraltar in 1941 it would have been enough to conquer Malta and secure sea ways to Africa. With supplies Rommel would have taken Egypt and so on as I mentioned before. Sometimes the smallest piece is the decisive.

Adler

P.S.: Weren´t the channel islands not British territories and captured?

 

[privatehudson]

And that was from thousands of prisoners, behind barbed wire in POW
camps with only disaster after disaster for news. Think it speaks more
for British character than panzers in the street.

I dunno, Mosley and his facists did enjoy some support prior to the war, if some of their hardline elements came out in force, allied to anti-communists the numbers would have been much higher. Recruiting from POW camps (where peer pressure would be strongly against) is often a fruitless campaign, and the numbers were limited in comparison to recruiting from the whole population. Just about the main thing we had in out character to make us different was that we lacked a reason to link us with the Germans in fighting Russians when compared to say the Poles or Ukranians.

And yes, the channel islands fell, but I hardly count that as panzers rolling through the Strand and Leicester Square

 

[FriendlyFire]

Friendly fire, even if the Spanish took only Gibraltar in 1941 it would have been enough to conquer Malta and secure sea ways to Africa. With supplies Rommel would have taken Egypt and so on as I mentioned before. Sometimes the smallest piece is the decisive.

Thats true.

Lets not forget if the Spanish and German had taken heavy losses in taking gib. it might have far reaching influnces. Look at Heavy German ship losses in Norway having a large negative effect for the rest of the war.


Net worth of British Subs throttleing the med
Net worth of heavy loses in Ships running supplies to Gib
(these supplies and forces instead being used in Egypt)

I still think it would be a close thing.

Who knows maybe the Italian navy would have suffered heavy losses.
Maybe British would have decided Not to divert forces to Greece.
Maybe Rommel like Student would have fallen out of favour with Hitler if casualties had been high.

 

[Adler17]

The Navy wouldn´t been needed to take Gibraltar. The land forces would have done the job. So no losses. And the Brits did not have so much subs to make a uboat warfare in the med. Also consider the need of a base to resupply and rearm. So only the western med would be in danger of British subs. And the secure sea ways in the east would have been enough to get the Arabian oil.

Adler

 

[Vasileius]

WW2: What if Spain had joined the Axis side during the war?

A Divised Spain "made in U.S.A." , like Cataluna , Galicia , Aragona , Vasque states ...

 

[Ozz]

I dunno, Mosley and his facists did enjoy some support prior to the war, if some of their hardline elements came out in force, allied to anti-communists the numbers would have been much higher. Recruiting from POW camps (where peer pressure would be strongly against) is often a fruitless campaign, and the numbers were limited in comparison to recruiting from the whole population

Anti-Communists like WSC? , Good point about the POWs though.

 

[Ozz]

Friendly fire, even if the Spanish took only Gibraltar in 1941 it would have been enough to conquer Malta and secure sea ways to Africa. With supplies Rommel would have taken Egypt and so on as I mentioned before. Sometimes the smallest piece is the decisive.

Adler

Ah.. There is a canal at Suez, and Malta was supplied from both ends. The
only effect The rock had was controlling Vichy ships from running contra ban
into southern France and a airbase for Torch, neither vital.

 

[privatehudson]

Anti-Communists like WSC? , Good point about the POWs though.

Sorry, not familiar with the term

 

[Zeekater]

Ah.. There is a canal at Suez, and Malta was supplied from both ends. The
only effect The rock had was controlling Vichy ships from running contra ban
into southern France and a airbase for Torch, neither vital.

Having to go around Cape Hope could have proven vital, it takes much more time.

 

[privatehudson]

Some did have to go round the cape anyway...

 

[Zeekater]

Some did have to go round the cape anyway...

Yes, some, but when time was cutting short, they went through Gibraltar, one of these convoys brought much needed fuel to the island (and substantial losses), without which, Malta probably wouldn't have held.

 

[Adler17]

Without Gibraltar no short route to supply Malta and Egypt. If Malta would have been lost, the British would have no base in the mediterranean except Egypt. And so the pressure would have been immense: Relative safe Axis sea ways to Africa while needing time to supply Egtypt. With a supplied German army El Alamain would have been another German victory and the control of Suez.
Oh WSC means Winston Spencer Churchill IIRC who was indeed a strong anti commie. I have an idea...

Adler

 

[privatehudson]

If, if, if.... lets be thankful that it never happened

One thought though, perhaps if Spain had thrown her weight into the war, the equivalent of Torch may have been launched against this weak ally rather than africa, especially if Africa was out of allied control.

 

[Adler17]

But if they launched an attack against Spain, what was indeed necessary, they would have had a costly campaign. Due to Spanish resistance and the terrain the campaign would be of very risky, despite the fact having the only operational starting bases in England...
Nevertheless you´re right. In THAT Germany under Hitler I don´t want to live.

Adler

 

[privatehudson]

Exactly the same as if the Germans had invaded the middle east proper and entangled themselves in that area's problems. Spain had difficult terrain, but no more or less than say Italy or the Balkans which were other options.