WWII .......what happened to history?

GIR: Yes, the uneducated Civ players are a problem on this forum. I say we should have people who really ruled the countries as leaders, we should have real symbols and real locations on the world map (if we play the world map).

We should have real unique units and proper buildings. We should not have an Idea (the HRE) as a Civ. We should not pretend an Evil Alien was the leader of Germany in 1939.
 
Ishon said:
Mirc: It's just a game, no need to whine! Let's imagine there were "West Balkan" and "East Balkan" countries. Let's even imagine the Aliens started the WWII.
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Well, I don't understand it, and I don't believe it's right, but I'm still not angry over it. :)

What I'm trying to say is not that it's not true this is inaccurate, but that it's not something that would ruin or magnify the experience of the game.
 
It's about not pandering to overly-sensitive people or trying to stay politically correct, it's about maximizing profits. If you don't like it or don't get it, you must be a communist.

To be honest, I wouldn't have given it any thought and just enjoyed playing it until somebody had to go and start a thread about it.

Those of you who want Firaxis to stand up and courageously throw all of this controversial stuff in to satisfy your commitment to the parts of history that matter to you obviously don't care if there's ever a Civ5. Unless they start adding in cool cars, guns and hookers, they really can't afford to be flippant about people's sensibilities.
 
1 - From a strictly historical POV, although some leaders were quite relevant during WWII, they weren't as relevant in the big scheme of things or when compared with another Great Leaders. Hitler ruled Germany trough a quite short period of time, and leaded it into ruin. Biskmark and Frederik shaped germany and influenciated its present way more than Hitler ever did. People must start wideing their horizonts and start accepting that history stretches far beyond WWII and History Channel. And yes, I also think that the inclussion of Stalin and Churchill was a stupid idea to beging with.

2- Sensibilities aside, such a game simply wouldn't be possible to commercialize in Germany and would face severe problems in many of the countries occupied by the nazis, not to mention Israel. The inclussion of a mediocre leader is not worth of such a hit to the game sales.
 
It is just a game, have fun. If you REALLY need to change something go into the XML in the mod and change it. That simple.
 
Ishon said:
Firaxis is too lazy to do boring historical research (see also: the HRE).
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You know what the irony of this is... it's a fan scenario. Not Firaxis.
 
dutchking: You apparently can't understand that educated people can't have fun playing a WWII scenario with the Great Alien ruling Germany. For some people a game with the HRE and Germany together is just too disturbing and they won't play it.

Some people are more esthetically sensitive to others and they don't listen to . .. .. .. . music that most people listen to.

Some people are more historically aware and seeing East and West Balkans as countries + seeing no Poland in a WWII scenario is too annoying, not fun.

That's not fun for us, can't you understand this?

I think the comparison with music is the best one. I just can't stand most of the music on popular radio stations, I get extremely annoyed and I make people turn that . .. .. .. . off. Most people can't understand how that guy could react like that, how could it be SUCH a problem (hey, it's just music, relax!). I can't relax, I hate that, that's just a lot of worthless . .. .. .. ..

The HRE and Germany on the same world map is total . .. .. .. . to me too, do you know what I mean? It's NOT fun.
 
Ishon said:
dutchking: You apparently can't understand that educated people can't have fun playing a WWII scenario with the Great Alien ruling Germany. For some people a game with the HRE and Germany together is just too disturbing and they won't play it.

Some people are more esthetically sensitive to others and they don't listen to . .. .. .. . music that most people listen to.

Some people are more historically aware and seeing East and West Balkans as countries + seeing no Poland in a WWII scenario is too annoying, not fun.

That's not fun for us, can't you understand this?

I think the comparison with music is the best one. I just can't stand most of the music on popular radio stations, I get extremely annoyed and I make people turn that . .. .. .. . off. Most people can't understand how that guy could react like that, how could it be SUCH a problem (hey, it's just music, relax!). I can't relax, I hate that, that's just a lot of worthless . .. .. .. ..

The HRE and Germany on the same world map is total . .. .. .. . to me too, do you know what I mean? It's NOT fun.
Click to expand...

So... the point I got from this is that you're just as much of a creep about everything else as you are about this?
 
Ishon said:
dutchking: You apparently can't understand that educated people can't have fun playing a WWII scenario with the Great Alien ruling Germany. For some people a game with the HRE and Germany together is just too disturbing and they won't play it.

Some people are more esthetically sensitive to others and they don't listen to . .. .. .. . music that most people listen to.

Some people are more historically aware and seeing East and West Balkans as countries + seeing no Poland in a WWII scenario is too annoying, not fun.

That's not fun for us, can't you understand this?

I think the comparison with music is the best one. I just can't stand most of the music on popular radio stations, I get extremely annoyed and I make people turn that . .. .. .. . off. Most people can't understand how that guy could react like that, how could it be SUCH a problem (hey, it's just music, relax!). I can't relax, I hate that, that's just a lot of worthless . .. .. .. ..

The HRE and Germany on the same world map is total . .. .. .. . to me too, do you know what I mean? It's NOT fun.
Click to expand...


Since none of us give a damn about the HRE, and are pretty much going to have loads of fun with it, we're uneducated? Because that's really what I'm getting from you right now.
 
We call this high standards, as opposed to low standards. Some people expect more, and there are many of them among Civ players, because it's always been one of the more intelligent and challenging computer games. And look, it still didn't become an RTS.
 
If you don't like the HRE then mod it out. There is no consequence. Enless you play Multiplayer which in Civ Sucks.
 
It appears that those screenshots aren't final, as some of the units names' aren't capitalized. Though even if those shots aren't final, I'm sure the German flag won't change. :undecide:
 
If even Paradox Interactives (which is far more historical-accuracy-minded than Firaxis) elected to use Red-White-Black over Swastika in Hearts of Iron, and felt the need to ban advertisement of swastika mods (and screenshots thereof) from their forum, that should give you an idea of the odds of Hitler or the Swastika actually making it in for a far more mainstream game like Civ IV.

That,s the german laws for you.
 
It's kind of sad, though. Glossing over history because it offends some helps absolutely no one.
 
As far as I know, the german laws are about controling neo-nazism far more than about "not offending people".
 
Ishon said:
Ok, somebody else is lazy too :P.
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That's okay, no need to thank me for all my hard work the last 12 months.

Just be glad Poland IS in. It almost wasn't since it's a minor nation.

BTW, I remember who thanks me so I can make it up to them at a later date.
 
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