"You declared war on our friend"

[Rameau's Nephew]

Quick question: Do reputation penalties based on this ever diminish?

(Or is Gandhi going to have that -4 against me for axe-rushing Charlemagne in 2000BC forever?)

 

[The Rook]

Never!

But you should only obtain a -1 penalty each time that you do it. So it makes sense to try avoiding declaring on the same civ every few turns if the target is popular.

 

[Rameau's Nephew]

Thanks.

I only declared war twice in this game so far. (I stole a worker, made peace, then built my axe-stack and invaded.)

 

[The Rook]

That's odd, unless Gandhi is a special case and awards a 2 point penalty for declaring on his friends? There are a few exceptions to various modifiers. For example, most leaders give a 1 point penalty for refusing to help, but from memory Cathy and Sury deduct 2 points.

 

[Lansky]

He's a special case and gives -2 for attacking a friend. You can also make all the demands you like of him and he'll never give you a demerit for making an arrogant demand.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I'm not sure the mechanics on this. I'm sure it depends on the leader. I've seen it fade away rather quickly as well as taking a long long time. It may never go away completely for some leaders. Can't really offer much more than that, though.

 

[Nares]

I'm not sure the mechanics on this. I'm sure it depends on the leader. I've seen it fade away rather quickly as well as taking a long long time. It may never go away completely for some leaders. Can't really offer much more than that, though.

AIs have a turn-based memory value; you can check the XML for how many turns it will take a particular AI to "forget" a given event.

 

[The Rook]

As far as I remember (and from what I can see in CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml), war declarations are never forgotten. The following events have memory decay values in the xml:


MEMORY_GIVE_HELP
MEMORY_REFUSED_HELP
MEMORY_ACCEPT_DEMAND
MEMORY_REJECTED_DEMAND
MEMORY_ACCEPTED_RELIGION
MEMORY_DENIED_RELIGION
MEMORY_ACCEPTED_CIVIC
MEMORY_DENIED_CIVIC
MEMORY_ACCEPTED_JOIN_WAR
MEMORY_DENIED_JOIN_WAR
MEMORY_ACCEPTED_STOP_TRADING
MEMORY_DENIED_STOP_TRADING
MEMORY_STOPPED_TRADING_RECENT
MEMORY_MADE_DEMAND_RECENT
MEMORY_CANCELLED_OPEN_BORDERS
MEMORY_TRADED_TECH_TO_US
MEMORY_RECEIVED_TECH_FROM_ANY
MEMORY_VOTED_AGAINST_US
MEMORY_VOTED_FOR_US
MEMORY_EVENT_GOOD_TO_US
MEMORY_EVENT_BAD_TO_US

 

[smackthewise]

The worst problem with "You declared war on our friend" is the fact all the AI have default hidden attitude modifiers towards each other. At the very start of the game and AI is +1 and already pleased with the other AI. BC Wars shouldn't effect attitudes after 1000 years. They were frickin' barbarians back then!

Thus you get a diplomatic penalty that often never goes away! I find this very annoying, but not so much as the -4 'traded with our worst enemy' from a Civ you haven't even met yet. Now I never trade until i've been all Civs.

 

[Grashopa]

I stopped trading with the Aztecs at 1000 BC - at 600 AD they still won't talk with me. I don't care what the diplo modifier is! I just want to give him monotheism for his 200 gold!

 

[dirtyparrot]

What do the values stand for? How do we determine the number of turns it takes for each one to decay? For example, Alexander's refuse to give help is 200. Does the 200 mean 200 turns or something else?

 

[6K Man]

The upshot for me is that I try to finish off my opponents in one go. I used to take a few cities, make peace to recuperate and redeclare, but the diplo was killing me.

 

[smackthewise]

The upshot for me is that I try to finish off my opponents in one go. I used to take a few cities, make peace to recuperate and re-declare, but the diplo was killing me.

Yes, I was only calling for a cease-fire as opposed to peace, but it turns out I was losing dilpo still for re-declaring! So what then is the point of a cease-fire?

 

[dirtyparrot]

You can DOW the enemy again in less than 10 turns

 

[jauggy]

What would happen if you changed the XML so that ancient era units are hidden nationality? Then you could declare war early on and suffer no penalty I'm assuming.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

As far as I remember (and from what I can see in CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml), war declarations are never forgotten. The following events have memory decay values in the xml:

Perhaps the coding lays in a different place. I've seen ancient era "You declared on friend!" disappear entirely. It happened with Mansa Musa in my 2nd to last game (though this was a while ago). I've definitely seen -2 go down to -1.

 

[The Rook]

Perhaps the coding lays in a different place. I've seen ancient era "You declared on friend!" disappear entirely. It happened with Mansa Musa in my 2nd to last game (though this was a while ago). I've definitely seen -2 go down to -1.

I think you might be mistaken, are you sure that the modifier couldn't have related to something else? There is a "Realistic Diplomacy" mod that tries to remedy some of the more dubious memory decays, or those that are missing completely. In the foreword Afforess states... "Firaxis thought the AI should never forget wars, razing cities, nukes, spies... etc. I disagree.". The mod specifically adds MEMORY_DECLARED_WAR and MEMORY_DECLARED_WAR_ON_FRIEND in the <MemoryDecay> fields.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=330881

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Despite all that, I know I've seen "You declared on my friend!" decay. I mean... it's not I might be mistaken, I know I've seen it decay. Every single game I've seen it decay. It might not go away completely, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it go away completely sometimes. Perhaps this scales with difficulty?

Not too sure, but I know I've seen it decay.

 

[The Rook]

Despite all that, I know I've seen "You declared on my friend!" decay. I mean... it's not I might be mistaken, I know I've seen it decay. Every single game I've seen it decay. It might not go away completely, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it go away completely sometimes. Perhaps this scales with difficulty?

Not too sure, but I know I've seen it decay.

Interesting, your experience is just the opposite of mine. The only other thing I can suggest is that maybe some mod added war memory decays to your xmls?

Anyway, where's DanF when you need him?

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Lol. Nah, no mods except BUG and Blue Marble (neither have any effect on gameplay). Don't know man, maybe the Direct-2-Drive download version is different. I know for a fact that this modifier gets reduced in my games.