1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Your rule of thumb for evaluating trade yields

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Softly, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. isau

    isau Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,068
    I don't think a linear comparison is possible between trade yields. Let me see if I can boil down the main issues:

    • Food and Hammers are local yields. They have tremendous swing value depending on the Food and Hammers already available to a city. This is why a Trade Route sent from a fairly new city is often ideal. If Hammers go from 2 to 3 in that city, that's a 33% increase (and, effectively, a 33% decrease in build time).
    • Culture is both a local and global yield. Culture contributes to grabbing land tiles, which is more of an issue early in the game than later once most tiles are already claimed.
    • Gold, Faith, and Science are global yields. The output of the home cities doesn't impact decision making, just whether you are lagging in one of these areas in the global sense. The real question with these yields is for me "Do I need that thing more than supporting the local yield of a young city?" Gold in particular can be tricky with regards to this question, because although it is a global yield, it allows Gold purchases of buildings, which can contribute to local effects...
     
    Olleus likes this.
  2. Trengilly

    Trengilly Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2017
    Messages:
    269
    Location:
    California
    I'm in agreement with Victoria. Internal trade routes are only useful for two things 1) quickly getting a new city started (if necessary) and 2) maxing production in your spaceport city if going for a SV (assuming you haven't gotten Triangular Trade yet).

    Population and Production are overvalued. Gold is king in Civ VI - you only need to produce districts and space parts (and spies).

    Its odd/unfortunate that the more efficient methods of winning all involve, preventing cities from growing and not building all the late buildings or wonders. (Has anyone won a game with all their cities under 10 pop? I've come close.)

    Which is why I prefer to role play games on Emperor
     
  3. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    11,375
    yes definately. It does depend. If I am immersive I'll even grow a city or two to 15, science does have requirements but they are not needed. Even a spaceport city can be founded a couple of turns before you win an then just chop in the spaceport.
     
  4. kamex

    kamex Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,272
    Location:
    UK
    As a builder, this makes me feel so sad. :(
     
    racha and Japper007 like this.
  5. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    11,375
    I 100% agree, chopping late in particular is insane. The reason being you start getting a new tech every turn or 2 so the chop value increases rapidly. All I can say is thank god there are no good % cards that help at that level. Low level Harald and monarchy are powerful chopping tools but even the 50% are great. Putting off swordsman to get the 50% chop from warriors can be great also.
    As a builder you should enjoy your build game and just ignore the fact that chopping can speed up the game. It's not like the AI is efficient at it.
     
  6. Canadian Bluebeer

    Canadian Bluebeer Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2011
    Messages:
    317
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    Game speed also makes a difference. I only play on marathon, so gold will pile up.
    Early on though, sometimes gold, sometimes production.
    I always do the get a free envoy though.

    I couldn't see what your gold/sci/culture was in your screenshot Victoria, so can't say which route would be best.
     
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    11,375
    Let alone my victory target , personal ambitions or shoe size. Just based on the routes available, all I am saying is internal routes are often not best and was using that as an example.
     
  8. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,335
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I almost always go external trade routes when I can. I don't get what all the love for internal trade routes is. I can get maybe 1 more production trading to my capital than I can trading to an industrial city state. Big deal. Unlike you, I do try to get road networks up first, after that's it's all external. But I do prioritize ones that have some production mixed in with all that gold. Food is even a better bonus. And yes I do run arsenal of democracy if I'm playing a relatively peaceful game for even more food and production. But sometimes if I am in need of lots of cash, I do trade to commercial city states. It's hard to pass up fat stacks of cash sometimes. I love gold, and I'm not afraid to purchase building or units with it.
     
  9. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,731
    The trick is to let one of your early cities only build districts that give +1 production to trade routes. But you could also just play Poland and have the best from both worlds.
     
  10. Canadian Bluebeer

    Canadian Bluebeer Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2011
    Messages:
    317
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    Well, having the route lay a road where you want it is a useful thing, and yes, I've done a route just for that.
    Actually, early on I tend to choose my first routes just for the roads. (being a warmonger type, I'm gonna NEED said roads later)
    :)

    I've chosen them because I need food in city, or for gold, or to make or keep someone friendly(ish) (for now).
    I've chosen a route for gold, or to get an envoy, or just to get the trading post so next time I can get the route to where I want it.
    (CS that don't have a harbor for instance)

    I don't think I've ever chosen one based on science or culture though.

    I also never play on standard speed, but do know that at that speed, the other yield importance changes priority vs marathon.
     
  11. Forster

    Forster Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Messages:
    435
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Columbus, GA
    I try to move my traders in such a way that they pass through my cities that are not connected on the way to the desired trade partner. This way I don't have to waste traders creating an internal road net.
     
    Victoria likes this.
  12. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    4,625
    Location:
    Toronto
    Works especially well if the best CS are on opposite ends of your empire, then you can just plan your routes to the opposite one more often than others. Or I use the occasional CS send-route quest to fill in a route across my empire if it works out that way.
     
  13. Softly

    Softly Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2017
    Messages:
    260
    Some informative posts, but has gotten kind of off-topic. My intention in creating this thread was to see what everyone's "rule of thumb" was for comparing yields. Trade routes was just a convenient standard to use since it sort of allows you to compare local yields (production) with non-local yields (science and gold). Looking back I def could have made myself more clear.

    Phrased another way, if I sat you in front on a game of civ with the monitor off, and I said I could either give you +1 prod/city or +3g/city, which would you choose? How about 2cult/city vrs 3science/city? 2 gold vrs. 1 faith?
     
  14. Frostburn

    Frostburn Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    151
    Gender:
    Male

    Early game I value culture above all else- maybe 1 culture = 1.5 production = 1.5 science. I would say 1 production = ~3 gold, so priot to my first government 1 culture = ~4.5 gold

    I like early culture because I find upgrading government to get the 4 card slots pretty important. After that I think culture/science/production are about equal in value. with gold being ~3x less valuable per unit of culture/prod/science. Food is really strong for low pop cities and the least valuable yield once the city has built up some population. Food value is inversely proportional to city population, being most valuable at a city with 0 pop


    tl;dr Early before government: 1 culture = 1.5 science/production =3 gold
    After that: 1 culture = 1 science = production = 3 gold

    Food = most valuable for cities with 1-3 pop, gets increasingly less valuable as pop rises
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  15. empresskiova

    empresskiova Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2017
    Messages:
    170
    Gender:
    Male
    It’s pretty hard to answer, since it’s all about the situation you are in. I don’t think there is a one true formula that works in every game and in every situation.

    I’ve had games where the production is more useful to me than the gold could ever be (one fun game as Rome comes to mind... I had 4 players declare war against me at once through Joint Wars). And then games where the gold is simply crucial to my strategy (often low production games).

    Another fun game I had was as Poland... I started on a peninsula and had little room to expand and was too weak scientifically and productively to go the conquering route. I had to spam out trading districts (this was before harbors and commercial zones didn’t stack traders) and island colonies the best I could to get international routes going as I was running the +1 Science/Culture for Traders card. This fixed my backwards people and would’ve let me win the Science game. In that game, a few coins and cogs wouldn’t have saved me (though I got the best of both worlds because of their UB).
     
    Phoenix1595 likes this.
  16. Phoenix1595

    Phoenix1595 Lord of the Two Lands

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,017
    I agree with @empresskiova-- the question is entirely subjective, given variations in each civ, play style, map, etc.

    While production seems to be king in Civ6, and trade routes can offer a vital source for hammers, I could not say that I would always choose hammers over, say, gold. It all depends on the game and my own personal objectives.
     
  17. KnightModern

    KnightModern Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    134
    Gender:
    Male
    I have 5 rules, ascendant
    1. do my city desperately need food?
    2. do my city desperately need production?
    3. which one that gain most gold?
    4. which one that I need more, science or culture?
    5. which one that give me advantage for religious pressure?
     
  18. liv

    liv Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,394
    I think if your needs were food and production you should build a builder not a trader
     
  19. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,017
    Gender:
    Male
    No, but getting close. I think it is actually better because there is little use in growing so big.

    From prince to emperor, the average "workhorse city" for me has been getting smaller. Usually I had a bunch of 15-20 pop cities but now it is to the point where only my capital passes 10 pop and that is usually when I stop caring anyways. I imagine people that make quick finishes dont even need to go that far. Stuff like neighorhoods and aqueducts seem pretty worthless to me even if I take longer.
     
  20. KnightModern

    KnightModern Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    134
    Gender:
    Male
    you can transfer trader to new cities to boost their production for awhile
    and sometimes you want to settle in bad place for gaining food, like tundra because there are strategic or luxury resource there
     

Share This Page