Zav2: AWE Pangaea(RAR!)

I think we're staring at ~15 turns to Cavs regardless of whether we build Edison or not. So we have 3 choices:

(A) Build Edison, don't research. Use the Edison techs to get to Cavs, and maybe 1 tech beyond if the AI are helpful. Use accumulating cash to upgrade units, particularly workers. In this case Clausewitz is more important than Smith's, so Neapolis should swap wonders. If we then have Neapolis re-start Smith's, we have 1 of 3 major cities (Roma) available for units.

(B) Don't build Edison, do research. Use the Edison build as a head start on Clausewitz and keep Neapolis on Smiths. Since we're running low cash we wouldn't be upgrading much, and Smiths improves our gpt so we want it before Clausewitz. Ignoring Edison allows 2 of 3 major cities to build units.

(C) Build Edison, do research. Hopefully time it so that we discover Cavalry before Edison completes and use the Edison techs to get us close to Refining. The Pentagon is the real gamebreaker here. Let Neapolis complete Smith's.

The benefit to (C) is that we can reach just about the end of the useful tech tree within 20 turns. I see this game really breaking open with 3-man Cavalry armies, and we likely won't need Tanks. The drawback is that we will have slow workers for a while longer. In (C) we may or may not build Clausewitz. I think Roma should build Clausewitz after the Estates General as I believe it makes more spt than Neapolis, and Neapolis is set nicely for 1-turn LInf.

When we are able to build the Pentagon, let's try to build it in one of our big three cities. This will almost assuredly be a leader rush. Let's be a little patient and put it in a good spot, instead of just trying to pop the borders somewhere or trying to get a 2nd MGL quickly.
 
I almost never build the super sci wonders, better to keep them around as long as possible to eat AI shields, but C does sound decent here, given our pathetic science infrastructure.

D. Would be ignoring Edison and developing our coastal cities for science and playing it straight. That has less flair than C., but I would also like to get City Planning and Refrigeration so we can get cities like Ravenna up and running.
 
I would vote for no research ATM, and build Smith and Von Clauswitz. Then we can just use rails and what we have to put this one in the win column.
 
Not too much to report - the usual heavy lifting that goes on during my turns - lost a few more units than usual, as wasn't as careful as I needed to be with the fog. Razed an Inca town for 599 gold! The research plan was a bust, as pedia gave us RP the same turn we researched it, but we are doing 5 turn research, so went ahead for steel, so we can get City Planning and the pollution cancelling parks. We should get Social Dar from the pedia at some point, which lets us get corp and refining from Edisons. Built Smith's and Estates, then got the final produciton boosters (and sewers in sal and grand river) before starting Clauswitz (in 5) and Edison (in 9 - should improve), in Roma and Sal. Grand River will be the wonder-builder once it gets it factory/coal plant/dc/prison done. Rebuilt Slave Markets throughout the realm.

Basic railnet done. Currently getting our homeland some more food, then we can get Grand River and Sal all spruced up. Upgraded some units, but wanted to wait for Claus for most upgrades. T_McC has his PalaceGuardArmy up and running. One leader built National Gallery in Grand River.

When Antium gets a couple more pop, and his factory/coal plant finishes, he should be able to build armies for us. I really don't think we're to the point yet where we should be building 15 turn units in potentially productive cities... RandR is significantly different than unmodded in this respect.
 
It is in the list. Probably will not be until Sunday. I would like to hear from Zav, These next turns sound like fun, and he has missed thes last 3-4 turns.
 
Fun will happen soon, although with Inca and Sioux having Rifles and not afraid to use them ( I turned back two 10/15 unit invasions), I doubt Cavalry alone will be sufficient. We can do 5-turn research, so no real reason not to go for tanks (or at least MG's) after getting City Planning and Refining.
 
Looking at the save ...

We actually don't have much in the way of offense. Enough to make a slow push, but not an avalanche yet.

After the factory completes in Grand River, let's get the regular science buildings built before we chase wonders. We lack an Academy, Library, and School of Scribes. The first two should be 1-turn builds, and the last can be a 1-turn build after a Coal Plant.

Take a good look at Aurelianorum. Granary and growth on the same turn. You know what to do.

I'm not sure Texcoco wants a Garrison. The front will be past it once the active settler founds.

Ravenna is already size 15 and doesn't have a Sewer System. It can work more water tiles for better trade. Might even be worth considering leaving Ravenna at size 15, and giving some of it's land tiles to Tarentum. Tarentum can reach size 11 that way, and probably go over 40 net spt. We'll get less trade out of Ravenna, but also no population pollution.

I guess we never built any boats? We do need some, at least to figure out where the Tibetans are. We'll sink a lot of enemy shipping once we get Artillery. :)

Jerusalem is building incredibly ugly 56-shield Laborers. Not much you can do about it. If we build a Courthouse the city can hit 30 spt, but then the pop grows back too slowly. Could make the city a 4-turn Hardy Colonist factory with some more rails. We do need more labor.

I think Bez is building Forges instead of Slave Markets in some of the new cities to try to maintain WLTKD. But I'm not sure.

Nothing like an AW game where we've got 1 troop in production. :lol: Looks like Romeo gets builder turns.

The tile the Scut army is standing on might make a good city site. It would become a target instead of Pompeii, and it's surrounded by flat land. Only drawback is the possibility of getting attacked from the fog by move-3 units.

On research: It looks like Edison's will be in ~10 turns, so we might be able to get Steel + 2 more techs before it completes. Or, Steel + 1 more, and a bunch of cash to use after Clausewitz completes. Since we are deep in builder turns I think we should get City Planning next. We really don't need to be spending time cleaning up pollution when we could be railing. After that we're sort of counting on the AI to research Repeating Rifle (Cavalry) for us. If that's not up when Darwin completes (especially if the AI comes up with, say, Naval Tactics) we should grab that as a freebie. The 2nd freebie is a little tougher. We don't want Automatic Weapons unless we have cities that can do 140 spt, or we lose our 1 defender/turn capability. Roma and Sal can, Neapolis needs more railing and possibly a worker merge. Realpolitik is also a strong possibility, as it would allow us to build another Palace. Ahh, I see the one I want: Advanced Metallurgy (move-2 Artillery!). That is a pricey upgrade from Cannons, not to mention Trebs, so we probably want to build anew rather than spend our cash on that.

It will be a slog to Refining as I really don't think the AI will research Social Darwinism for us. That is relatively cheap so I don't think we should take that for free. All the other possiblities should be more expensive.

Did a little espionage ... the Inca are really rich. And the AI is not surprising me with their research choices.

We still have an empty Army in Pompeii, and the active settler might want to go for the hill the Adventurer is standing on. It's still on the river and makes the AI attack from the flats. (Although does give up the cross-river defensive bonus.)
 
I usually do go for WLTK days, but I doubt we have any cities sorrupt enough to worry about it in this one - those cities building forges more likely I just forgot the Slave Market. I went for a builder turn this go round because I saw a lot of the unmodded strategy of building 15-turn units in late captured cities, and I know they can be much more productive with a little patience, so I went that way to make sure it get's done.

I'm pretty confident we'll get repeating rifle from the pedia as the Inca already have it, and the Sioux got replaceable parts the same time we did. The AI tends to double back to pick up soc dar after getting repeating rifle, so we should have a reasonable chance to pick that up if we go for city planning.

Once we get Claus and can upgrade our workforce, things should get easier. The extra food in the core is a big help already. I agree on sharing Ravenna's tiles - some forest plants there with CP would be a big help.
 
IHT: Not much, swap some builds
Turn 1: A lot of builds are swapped to toll houses. City planning is due in 11, same as edisons. I really want Cash on hand for upgrades. Shave a turn off of edisons, and adjust research accordingly. Let Inca land a settler pair, I want the gold not the slaves. We had sleeping slaves?? What the heck?
Turn 2: Pollution hits Sal setting back Edisons a turn. I have almost all availible workers converge on it. Found Verona.
Turn 3: Builder and zone defense
Turn 4: IBid. Dang pollution keeps hitting sal, parks will be uber cool.
Turn 5: Get Clauswitz, blow 1600 gold upgrading workforce, didn't even get half of them upgraded. Our horse archer pops an MGL we get the national monument in Roma.

It is an expensive toll house, but we will take it. Next elite win, Tada. I got an empty army, as nothing of note to rush.

Turn 6: Upgrade some workers and some elite * horse guys.
Turn 7: Upgrading our core.
Turn 8: Verona falls to the Sioux. Whoops. Recapture Verona. Roma is now doing 1 turn cavs. Woohoo. Cav armies are kicking butt.
Turn 9: Edisons comes in, get realpolotik and get advanced metallurgy. Winter palace going up in grand river. War college gets rushed in jerusalem.

Turn 10: Upgrading stuff. We have enough units to think Offense now. It got hairy for a minute or two in the middle, but this is clearly downhill now. I turned off research, as we are upgrading lots of stuff still. We need oil to build some arty, but our units are now much better.
Not much to say about the game here, I suspect GREEBLEY can really do some damage now. Sal is on the eiffel tower, just because we can. No shields have been invested, so it can go back to 1 turn cavs.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/Zav2_AD1550.SAV
 
Greebley might be able to do some damage, but he's not up.

I got it. :)

I seriously doubt the Eiffel Tower build will survive the inherited IT. We are in no danger of a Cultural loss, nor do we want a cultural win. There is an available wonder we do want ...

Won't be playing until Tuesday night.
 
Romeo continues his quest to prevent us building any armies by hand. :lol:

Otherwise good work - looking forward to seeing what the master can do. Go T_McC, go!
 
Doh, I had the wrong person up. Good thing I am not running the game. I really hate building armies, and I think that with our leader luck and leader chances, we will get plenty of leaders.
We can build the East India company in Grand River, and I would do that after the prison finishes there.
 
I like the expensive buildings. I think using armies is semi-exploitive, and at this point we really don't need them. If you want them, you can cashrush the armies.
I built the Warcollege in Jerusalem as it was the only place that had a rax and no shields in the box the leader could reach in 1 at the time. We have been averaging 3 MGL's per ten turns over the last 5 sets, and that would be 3 new armies, plus you can cash rush armies, so there is a lot that can be done to get armies.
 
Zav2 - Gleaming the Cube

First round on the new computer. :cool:

I think I finally understand why LK's pictures look different, the game is in a different font now.

Swap Sal to Cathedral. It should be able to do a 1-turn Market with another rail. Then it can do units. Grand River has 48 base shields, so the Prison is worth 12 spt. East India is 680 shields, so ... Coal Plant first. May hit 160 spt for a Park beforehand. Antium can do 60 spt, so it will do Rifles. Allegheny gets a Temple (and starvation) in 1, then maybe WLTKD.

Toll Houses aren't exciting, but they are effective. Not good to build Factories before Mills.

Add some food at Cumae, and still complete Cav in 1. 45 spt is butt-ugly at this stage of the game. Nothing is either 45, or 90, or 180 shields.

We can currently make 156 spt in Neapolis. Need another pop. Or a Hospital.

Everything seems in order troop-wise. Now for research .... we can have Refining in 3 techs, and I want it now. Research to 60%, Social Darwinism in 3 at a profit. The Inca will cover deficit research on the following two techs. :)

Leave 1 Army in the core, just in case. And get some boats built to sink the enemy we can't reach with Cannons.

<Return>

IT - Jimminy Crickets everything moved by fast! :lol: Check Preferences ...

1555 AD (1)
Caesaraugusta goes to break-even food to supply defense to the East.


Told you the Incas would cover our research.

Oooohhh, I do likes my artillery stacks! Redlined stuff everywhere.

And then destroy St. Louis as well. Have to leave a Cav exposed, but no big whoop.

1560 AD (2)
Lost a couple of units on the IT. Have to check myself that I'm not barrelling forward too quickly.

Also get two blobs of pollution. :rolleyes:

I :love: sinking boats with cannons. Got three from Siam this round. Also whack a couple of Siamese interlopers that had landed. Check that those were guys from Tibet. But I would have killed Siamese just the same.

Then sink an American boat. I also recall one expeditionary force, once we get another army or the Pentagon we can push two kill groups out.

1565 AD (3)
Lose some workers to a Horse Archer out of the fog.

Kill the Horse Archer and then burn a Sioux city in our South. The Americans have founded a city in a spot that conflicts with where I'm going to put a city, so it will burn soon.

Short-rush a Park in Grand River.

1570 AD (4)
Five units are dropped off by Ravenna. Kill them all. Kill about 9-10 units in total, and sink a boat. Lose a Cav burning the offending American city.

1575 AD (5)
Found a couple of cities, kill some units. New Cav army from the Military Academy. Next turn should be big cash money.

1580 AD (6)
Lose stack of workers, regain stack of workers. This just about covers the re-upgrading.



Then score another 836 by capturing Ollantayambo. Might have been a mistake to capture, we'll see.

The Incans also drop off three Rifles. They can't attack anything next turn, so we'll wait them out. Our artillery was being used in the West to subdue a Rifle-rush that is still in progress.

1585 AD (7)
Kill a bunch of stuff. Still no leaders.

Cut-and-run at Ollantayambo. About 8 things could have attacked this next round. Well, that brave stand lasted 1 turn. :shakehead

1590 AD (8)
Get a stack in place to form a city on the Olive Oil. Also found a new city in the North. Still no leaders, with another 6-8 dead enemy this turn.

1595 AD (9)
Refining comes in, and so do the Inca. Good thing we have about 6000 Cavalry by now.

We have multiple Oils. The Pentagon is really expensive. I put Roma on the job, due in 7. We can also upgrade our Artillery now.

Oh, and this happens.



Grand River then starts on the Naval Academy.

Found Sirmium, and claim Olive Oil for us. Built on a Hill, with Desert surrounding it. Should be good Artillery country.

About Freakin' Time.



1600 AD (10)
Pentagon completes. Put third member in two of the armies.

Burn some Tibet city. At least I think it was Tibet. Might as well let them in on the fun.

Sink three Sioux ships, netting a prize ship.

Final Notes:
The front is starting to push west. I never bothered to attack the Aztecs, I was more concerned with stealing money from the Incans. The north is wide open, we should be able to capture the American cities and found a couple of new ones of our own. The Incans don't seem to be running out of troops, but they can't seem to ever bring enough to really threaten even a single city.

Most of our Cannons are in Byzantium, where they were shooting at boats. The railnet is almost complete, we're a little shy in the east. I probably have too many Cavs standing guard over there, but better too many than not enough.

Might be worth turning research back on and pushing to Military Tradition to build the Arc de Triomphe. Free Garrisons in all cities. But it's 3 optional techs away, and we make > 1000 gpt at 90% taxes. The only other interesting thing to research would be Refrigeration, and that's just to see if we have any double food bonuses.

There is sort of a narrow point in our west, just beyond where the Aztecs are. I'd like to set up the front lines there, but it's tough to get out there with all that desert in the way.

More pictures to follow.
 
The view at 4:20 ...



Blue circles are new cities we founded this round. There is another on the southern peninsula where a Sioux city used to be.

Neapolis, Roma, and Sal can all do 1-turn Cavs. Although it might be a good idea to build Banks instead and turn the Naval Academy into the Central Bank. We can easily clean out the North with troops on hand. We have 1 settler active and 1 more in production, presumably for the North. I had an idea during my turns to eliminate the Polynesians, then couldn't come up with one good reason to go through with it.

The purple box is the narrow point of the continent I referred to earlier. That area gives us the potential to reduce our front to 3 cities, instead of the long front we currently have. Since we have rails the size of the front isn't that critical, but ...

Check the builds, it was getting late. :sleep:
 
Looks all quality here chief. This game is going well. We really would have to try and lose at this point now.
Bez is up?
He mentioned that he was on indefinite skip in some other threads.
We haven't heard from our host yet, but I think this makes greebley up.
 
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