Zeppelin/Scouting Line Upgrade Path

[Asterix Rage]

Btw,
I'm doing Enhance Air Warfare (First alpha release in few days)
In the future it will include an Attack helicoptere that will operate on sea... Maybe

EAW 4VP coming soon...

 

[amateurgamer88]

anyway i agree the zep unit line as i've outlined is not necessarily gonna be a priority build in all situations... but it can provide an option to build a naval/land unit without getting your unit mix stuck mostly with one or the other... this should help AI somewhat.. it needs to be made useful enough to at least be desireable in the ww1 era, as this was kinda the golden age of airships, and many were deployed. maybe instead o

The odd thing is that the ww1 era of VP is Modern Era and sub don't show up until late Atomic Era. Therefore, the anti-sub purpose won't be coinciding with the golden age of airships, assuming that we are trying to merge history and VP.

I dont hold the same vision for the separate paratrooper line, but i havent wrapped my head around it entirely, will have to see what the proposed implementation is first

During modding, I was bouncing a couple of ideas around. One of them might be putting Paratrooper line back to the scouting line but giving them more promotions that are more combat related. Then, there would be a Zeppelin unit in its own line available at Modern Era that upgrades into a drone in late Atomic Era or early Information Era. We'll see what happens.

i think making the zep a useful hybrid land/ocean unit should be the focus for it, w/e that means

I'm afraid I need more to go on. Something like a hybrid needs careful balancing. Maybe you can come up with a rough draft of what you have mind and we can adjust the promotions and numbers later?

Hehe, It's easy to make complains about what Zep and Scout line is, but it's not that simple to find a better alternative.
Frankly, the scout line that starts with a scouting role and becomes an unconventional fighting role (Hovering, range attack and paradrop) is not that bad.
My personnal complain is about the steampunk looking of Zeppelin that belong to a steampunk Mod but not VP

To be honest, I'd be happy if Paratroopers and Special Forces can move on Mountains as well instead of losing that ability and nothing else was changed. I'm just simple like that. However, this is just a good modding exercise for me as I'm learning a lot from it.

Btw,
I'm doing Enhance Air Warfare (First alpha release in few days)
In the future it will include an Attack helicoptere that will operate on sea... Maybe

Good to know! I'm thinking of adding more mods to my games (or at least as many as possible without slowing my games further or crashing it altogether xD).

 

[Tekamthi]

The odd thing is that the ww1 era of VP is Modern Era and sub don't show up until late Atomic Era. Therefore, the anti-sub purpose won't be coinciding with the golden age of airships, assuming that we are trying to merge history and VP.

i think this depends on research order, doesn't it? I tend to prioritize this tech, as i don't generally like maintaining a conventional navy and enjoy using the subs to clear out my rivals' ships

During modding, I was bouncing a couple of ideas around. One of them might be putting Paratrooper line back to the scouting line but giving them more promotions that are more combat related. Then, there would be a Zeppelin unit in its own line available at Modern Era that upgrades into a drone in late Atomic Era or early Information Era. We'll see what happens.

This sounds like a good direction to me.

I'm afraid I need more to go on. Something like a hybrid needs careful balancing. Maybe you can come up with a rough draft of what you have mind and we can adjust the promotions and numbers later?

promos depends on whether the zep stays in recon or moves to its own line.... i have some ideas for the latter option, drawing a blank for the former.

 

[amateurgamer88]

Alright, I did some testing and, other than a few weird promotion icon issues when you are picking your promotions, everything seems to be working as intended. All the details are in the OP if you want more details but I'll put a summary below.

These are the current unit upgrade paths:

(1) Pathfinder > Scout > Explorer > Mounted Scout > Paratroopers > Special Forces > Xcom Squad
(2) Recon Unit > Elite Recon Unit > Xcom Squad
(3) Zeppelin > UCAV

(1) and (2) uses recon promotions while (3) uses archer promotions.

(1) is more of a pillage enemy improvements and disrupt enemy back lines starting from Paratroopers while (2) cannot pillage but they can enter enemy territory without needing war or open borders. I think this can be a fun dynamic where one allows you to better prepare for war while the other is meant to cause disruption by pillaging tiles and roads.

6 new promotions were added to the recon promotion line once Replaceable Parts is unlocked. One is offensive focused with extra healing to adjacent friendly units, more combat bonus when attacking and more combat bonus when in enemy territory. The other is defensive focused with the intention of letting the unit survive in enemy territory longer by both healing more, more combat bonus when defending and weakens adjacent enemies.

(3) can move onto mountains and cross oceans without needing to embark. the UCAV is just a long range unit that can potentially get up to 5 range with promotions. Its damage isn't that high and it's fairly fragile but it can hit at a safe distance.

I just reused various icons and stuff because I'm not an artist. The names are also largely unoriginal but maybe one day they'll be fixed.

More balance will be needed but I need feedback on that. If anyone feels like trying this out, feel free to try it out.

 

[General_Drax]

Trying this one. I like the versatility of the Recon unit. They work as spotters for my artillery and/or bombers. Mounted scout is fine and on the correct path to Paratrooper. I-ll try the Zeppelin shortly. Great mod. Only drawback: I think the AI has no clue to use them but same went for Zeppelins.

 

[amateurgamer88]

Trying this one. I like the versatility of the Recon unit. They work as spotters for my artillery and/or bombers. Mounted scout is fine and on the correct path to Paratrooper. I-ll try the Zeppelin shortly. Great mod. Only drawback: I think the AI has no clue to use them but same went for Zeppelins.

Thanks for the feedback! Glad to hear that Recon unit feel versatile.

I was worried a bit about how the AI will handle the new units. For Zeppelin, maybe I'll just give them 2 range so the AI can use them like any other ranged units. Recon Unit will be a bit weird since they cannot pillage so I'm thinking of giving them a slight CS boost over their Paratrooper counterparts. That can make them a front line unit for the AI if that's how the AI chooses to use them.

 

[General_Drax]

Yes. This could be great. Maybe someone can add some good icons to the generic ones.

 

[amateurgamer88]

Here's the new update:

Recon Unit CS increased to 50 (same as Rifleman).
Elite Recon Unit CS increased to 70.
Zeppelin range increased to 2.

As a non-artist, I don't know when good icons will be made. I might attempt it but, if it came out horribly, my icons won't see the light of day.

 

[amateurgamer88]

Another quick update! I didn't realize this until I tried the mod again. It's a minor change but I think it matters.

Zeppelin and UCAV now "Ignore Terrain Cost".

 

[amateurgamer88]

Poor little Mounted Scout....

Mounted Scout now  "Ignore Terrain Cost".

Btw, any feedback is appreciated. I know that most people don't play this late into the game but hopefully this makes the late game slightly more interesting.

 

[adan_eslavo]

So you would have:
Pathfinder ==> Scout ==> Explorer ==> (EE -- Adventurer ==>) Combat Engineer ==> Paratrooper ==> Special Forces ==> XCOM

and
Dirigible ==> Zeppelin ==> Spy Satellite

FWIW, I would rather have some irregular troop, or some truly all-terrain explorer unit in Industrial rather than a combat engineer. Give them additional rewards for finding the very last few unexplored tiles. There was a big final push into the deepest jungles, the highest mountains, and the arctic during the Industrial era.
Globe Trotter
unlocked at Steam power
40
3 moves
same base sight as Explorer
Double defense and improved sight when embarked
XP from revealing terrain
Can move through mountains and ice tiles
Culture and Science from revealing terrain

Dirigible could be a modification of the current zeppelin. I would remove the XP on revealing terrain, but keep the XP from spotting as a unit line bonus. I would also give the unit line a 33% bonus vs cities (airships were used to bomb cities before bombers were reliable)

Dirigible
Unlocked at Scientific Theory
32 25 Range 1
4 moves
4 base Sight range
4 Air Strike Defense
Hovering unit (can pass through mountains and coast without embarking)
Can Move after Attacking
Spotter (2 XP per turn in enemy territory)
Submarine Detection (can reveal submarines)
33% vs cities

Zeppelin
Unlocked at Electricity
44 35 Range 1
4 moves
4 base Sight range
8 Air Strike Defense
Hovering unit (can pass through mountains and coast without embarking)
Can Move after Attacking
Spotter (2 XP per turn in enemy territory)
Submarine Detection (can reveal submarines)
33% vs cities

Maybe Zeppelins could be upgraded into a Spy Satellite after researching Satellites in Information?
Spy Satellite
Civilian Unit (no CS)
Cannot be captured
Can occupy same tile as enemy unit
8 Movement
5 Base Sigh Range
Hovering unit (can pass through mountains and coast without embarking)
Unobstructed vision
Submarine Detection (can reveal submarines)

Spoiler proposal for Zeppelin promotion lines :

Stem I:
Bomber I ==> Bomber II ==> Bomber III

Bomber I / II give 33%/34% vs cities and naval units
Bomber III gives 25% Attack (ie. bonus vs all targets)​

Leaf I:
Requires Bomber I:
High altitude: 60% chance to withdraw from Combat
Requires Bomber II:
Cover I ==> Cover II
Medic I ==> Medic II
Air Defense I ==> Air Defense II ==> Air Defense III
Requires Bomber III:
Logistics
Range
Fire Control (Reduces incoming damage by 5)

Stem II:
Recon I ==> Recon II ==> Recon III

Recon I gives 1 sight range
Recon II 1 Movement
Recon III gives 1 sight and 1 Movement​

Leaf II:
Requires Recon I:
High altitude: 60% chance to withdraw from Combat
Requires Recon II:
Cover I ==> Cover II
Medic I ==> Medic II
Air Defense I ==> Air Defense II ==> Air Defense III
Requires Recon III:
Repair: Heals an additional +5 when Outside Friendly Territory. Heals Every turn

Fire Control (Reduces incoming damage by 5)

It is somewhat related to @Asterix Rage's EAW mod (zeppelins, drones etc.). If anyone will make it working, it will be my next must have mod. I like idea of moving zeppelin + drones to separate unique line and filling that gap with another unit. I for example didn't want to upgrade zeppelins to paratrooper, because they have excellent recon abilities during war. Paratrooper works a bit differently.

Mounted Scout should be Mounted Explorer imo.

 

[amateurgamer88]

It is somewhat related to @Asterix Rage's EAW mod (zeppelins, drones etc.). If anyone will make it working, it will be my next must have mod. I like idea of moving zeppelin + drones to separate unique line and filling that gap with another unit. I for example didn't want to upgrade zeppelins to paratrooper, because they have excellent recon abilities during war. Paratrooper works a bit differently.

Mounted Scout should be Mounted Explorer imo.

If you have time and willing, I definitely recommend you trying out the alpha of this mod. It's one take of how it should work and maybe it'll be what you're looking for, though Zeppelins are delayed to Modern Era as a result.

As for why it's Mounted Scout, it's due to the fact that exploration is basically over at Industrial Era in-game so I don't know what they are exploring. xD

 

[adan_eslavo]

If you have time and willing, I definitely recommend you trying out the alpha of this mod. It's one take of how it should work and maybe it'll be what you're looking for, though Zeppelins are delayed to Modern Era as a result.

As for why it's Mounted Scout, it's due to the fact that exploration is basically over at Industrial Era in-game so I don't know what they are exploring. xD

But what with some other unit from Mounted Scout? I would opt for an earliest idea of some engineer or anything else more useful.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Btw,
I'm doing Enhance Air Warfare (First alpha release in few days)
In the future it will include an Attack helicoptere that will operate on sea... Maybe
View attachment 549089
EAW 4VP coming soon...

Spoiler My reaction :

 

[adan_eslavo]

So you would have:
Pathfinder ==> Scout ==> Explorer ==> (EE -- Adventurer ==>) Combat Engineer ==> Paratrooper ==> Special Forces ==> XCOM

and
Dirigible ==> Zeppelin ==> Spy Satellite

FWIW, I would rather have some irregular troop, or some truly all-terrain explorer unit in Industrial rather than a combat engineer. Give them additional rewards for finding the very last few unexplored tiles. There was a big final push into the deepest jungles, the highest mountains, and the arctic during the Industrial era.
Globe Trotter
unlocked at Steam power
40
3 moves
same base sight as Explorer
Double defense and improved sight when embarked
XP from revealing terrain
Can move through mountains and ice tiles
Culture and Science from revealing terrain

Dirigible could be a modification of the current zeppelin. I would remove the XP on revealing terrain, but keep the XP from spotting as a unit line bonus. I would also give the unit line a 33% bonus vs cities (airships were used to bomb cities before bombers were reliable)

Dirigible
Unlocked at Scientific Theory
32 25 Range 1
4 moves
4 base Sight range
4 Air Strike Defense
Hovering unit (can pass through mountains and coast without embarking)
Can Move after Attacking
Spotter (2 XP per turn in enemy territory)
Submarine Detection (can reveal submarines)
33% vs cities

Zeppelin
Unlocked at Electricity
44 35 Range 1
4 moves
4 base Sight range
8 Air Strike Defense
Hovering unit (can pass through mountains and coast without embarking)
Can Move after Attacking
Spotter (2 XP per turn in enemy territory)
Submarine Detection (can reveal submarines)
33% vs cities

Maybe Zeppelins could be upgraded into a Spy Satellite after researching Satellites in Information?
Spy Satellite
Civilian Unit (no CS)
Cannot be captured
Can occupy same tile as enemy unit
8 Movement
5 Base Sigh Range
Hovering unit (can pass through mountains and coast without embarking)
Unobstructed vision
Submarine Detection (can reveal submarines)

Spoiler proposal for Zeppelin promotion lines :

Stem I:
Bomber I ==> Bomber II ==> Bomber III

Bomber I / II give 33%/34% vs cities and naval units
Bomber III gives 25% Attack (ie. bonus vs all targets)​

Leaf I:
Requires Bomber I:
High altitude: 60% chance to withdraw from Combat
Requires Bomber II:
Cover I ==> Cover II
Medic I ==> Medic II
Air Defense I ==> Air Defense II ==> Air Defense III
Requires Bomber III:
Logistics
Range
Fire Control (Reduces incoming damage by 5)

Stem II:
Recon I ==> Recon II ==> Recon III

Recon I gives 1 sight range
Recon II 1 Movement
Recon III gives 1 sight and 1 Movement​

Leaf II:
Requires Recon I:
High altitude: 60% chance to withdraw from Combat
Requires Recon II:
Cover I ==> Cover II
Medic I ==> Medic II
Air Defense I ==> Air Defense II ==> Air Defense III
Requires Recon III:
Repair: Heals an additional +5 when Outside Friendly Territory. Heals Every turn

Fire Control (Reduces incoming damage by 5)

I like idea of expanding back the Zeppelin line to 3 units with Dirigible. Instead of "Satelite" just "drone" ==> "combat drone".

 

[amateurgamer88]

But what with some other unit from Mounted Scout? I would opt for an earliest idea of some engineer or anything else more useful.

What are some ideas you have with some engineer or anything else more useful? I wanted to go down that route but it wasn't very popular at the time. If we get some more brainstorming here, I could add more units along the way.

I like idea of expanding back the Zeppelin line to 3 units with Dirigible. Instead of "Satelite" just "drone" ==> "combat drone".

The reason why I didn't pursue the Dirigible route is due to the lack of a niche. What niche are they supposed to pursue? Anti-city? We have Field Guns/Artillery along with Bombers for that. Exploration/Scouting? That's what the Mounted Scout is for. Anti-submarine? Submarine are in such a sorry state in VP that I don't think we should just make them even worse with another counter. If you have any thoughts or ideas, I'd be happy to listen. I'm just very hesitant to add in units that might not see any plays due to other units doing everything else better.

 

[adan_eslavo]

It could be something based on Australian Digger, even using it's model, but remember that such "soldiers" were on all fronts of WWI. It could be unlocked at Dynamite:

Spoiler Instead of Mounted Scout :

Pyrotechnist
Unlocked at Dynamite (more time for explorer to finish his job)
30 (much more than Explorer's 17 is ok; less than Paratrooper (42) it is now more combat oriented unit)
3 moves (same as Explorer and substituted Zeppelin; more than Paratrooper (2))
3 Base Sight range (same as Explorer and Paratrooper)
0 Base Land Air Defense (same as Explorer; less than Paratrooper (5))
Spotter (2 XP per turn in enemy territory) (it fits nicely)
Extra Sight (+1 Sight range)
Survivor (+25% when defending, Ignores ZoC, +5 HP healed per turn)
Remote Detonation (+100% vs Fortified units; +25% vs Cities; Lost on upgrade)
Born to dig (Extra move on hills; Lost on upgrade) (lost Explorer's no terrain cost, but got something else; Paratrooper has nothing but free move on pillage)
SCOUT_XP_PILLAGE (same as Paratrooper)
SCOUT_GOODY_BONUS (same as Explorer and Paratrooper)

Basically it would be unit filling the huge gap between Explorer and Paratrooper. It has still some good scouting abilities, but not such good, and not so needed like before industrial, where there's something to explore. It has some part of Paratroopers abilities. It has some new support stuff to make it useful on the battlefield. This and all promotion received during early game make him excellent attacker of Citadels or Forts and Cities too.

Scouting role will be taken by Zeppelins and Later Drones. That way Zeppelin doesn't need anything before. Maybe later after UCAV? @pineappledan suggested very unique and useful imo:

Spoiler Sattelites :

Spy Satellite
at Sattelites
high build cost
Civilian Unit (no CS)
Cannot be captured
Can occupy same tile as enemy unit (is it doable?)
8 Movement (would be good if it didn't use roads if you know what I mean)
6 Base Sigh Range
Hovering unit (can pass through mountains and coast without embarking)
Unobstructed vision
Submarine Detection (can reveal submarines) (Leave them aloone!)

This way Zepelin should be moved back to Steam Power and UCAV to Flight.

So new lines:
(1) ==> Scout ==> Explorer ==> Pyrotechnist ==> Paratrooper ==>
(2) Zeppelin ==> Drone (UCAV?) ==> Spy Satellite

And to be honest, I don't like new Recon line units. I would focus on Zeppelin line more or even extracting Drone out of that line making it solo unit and fitting something else there so:
(1) ==> Scout ==> Explorer ==> Pyrotechnist ==> Paratrooper ==>
(2) Zeppelin ==> Drone (at Flying; new; something between those two, so more civilian, more flying scout) ==> Spy Satellite
(3) UCAV (at Computers; combat oriented drone)
(4) Recon line

So we have two drone types instead of original zero. New flying scout line. Ground scout line changing into ground support role.


And to finish my long dispute, current scout line unit is boooooring. Like you said, scouting is not so needed anymore and then there's huge jump from expert scout to support military unit.

And bonus. Imagine she is talking about hated submarines:

Spoiler Leave them aloone! :

 

[amateurgamer88]

It could be something based on Australian Digger, even using it's model, but remember that such "soldiers" were on all fronts of WWI. It could be unlocked at Dynamite:

Spoiler Instead of Mounted Scout :

Pyrotechnist
Unlocked at Dynamite (more time for explorer to finish his job)
30 (much more than Explorer's 17 is ok; less than Paratrooper (42) it is now more combat oriented unit)
3 moves (same as Explorer and substituted Zeppelin; more than Paratrooper (2))
3 Base Sight range (same as Explorer and Paratrooper)
0 Base Land Air Defense (same as Explorer; less than Paratrooper (5))
Spotter (2 XP per turn in enemy territory) (it fits nicely)
Extra Sight (+1 Sight range)
Survivor (+25% when defending, Ignores ZoC, +5 HP healed per turn)
Remote Detonation (+100% vs Fortified units; +25% vs Cities; Lost on upgrade)
Born to dig (Extra move on hills; Lost on upgrade) (lost Explorer's no terrain cost, but got something else; Paratrooper has nothing but free move on pillage)
SCOUT_XP_PILLAGE (same as Paratrooper)
SCOUT_GOODY_BONUS (same as Explorer and Paratrooper)

Basically it would be unit filling the huge gap between Explorer and Paratrooper. It has still some good scouting abilities, but not such good, and not so needed like before industrial, where there's something to explore. It has some part of Paratroopers abilities. It has some new support stuff to make it useful on the battlefield. This and all promotion received during early game make him excellent attacker of Citadels or Forts and Cities too.

The issue I can see with this unit is how does the AI know to build it? Since this unit will be upgrading to a Paratrooper, it will be a Recon unit and the AI doesn't like building a lot of them at this stage. In addition, I probably wouldn't build it either since Fusiliers will be just a better combat unit. Remote Detonation seems decent but attacking with a melee unit is usually a death sentence for that unit with the rise of Gatling Guns and Field Guns. It's still in such an awkward spot as I wouldn't risk losing even my highly promoted Pyrotechnist. If it lacks good scouting abilities and its supporting roles aren't that good, I might just wait until Paratrooper. Losing Ignore Terrain Cost likely will hurt this unit from pillaging Forts and Citadels easily. Let's also remember that we get one and maybe two of these units with lots of promotions. What are your thoughts on these concerns of mine?

Scouting role will be taken by Zeppelins and Later Drones. That way Zeppelin doesn't need anything before. Maybe later after UCAV? @pineappledan suggested very unique and useful imo:

Spoiler Sattelites :

Spy Satellite
at Sattelites
high build cost
Civilian Unit (no CS)
Cannot be captured
Can occupy same tile as enemy unit (is it doable?)
8 Movement (would be good if it didn't use roads if you know what I mean)
6 Base Sigh Range
Hovering unit (can pass through mountains and coast without embarking)
Unobstructed vision
Submarine Detection (can reveal submarines) (Leave them aloone!)

This way Zepelin should be moved back to Steam Power and UCAV to Flight.

So new lines:
(1) ==> Scout ==> Explorer ==> Pyrotechnist ==> Paratrooper ==>
(2) Zeppelin ==> Drone (UCAV?) ==> Spy Satellite

And to be honest, I don't like new Recon line units. I would focus on Zeppelin line more or even extracting Drone out of that line making it solo unit and fitting something else there so:
(1) ==> Scout ==> Explorer ==> Pyrotechnist ==> Paratrooper ==>
(2) Zeppelin ==> Drone (at Flying; new; something between those two, so more civilian, more flying scout) ==> Spy Satellite
(3) UCAV (at Computers; combat oriented drone)
(4) Recon line

So we have two drone types instead of original zero. New flying scout line. Ground scout line changing into ground support role.

We are upgrading a combat unit to a civilian unit? Assuming that this is possible through coding, a lot of promotions are wasted since no combat capabilities render so many of them useless. I also don't know how the game will treat situations where you have a Cannot be Captured civilian unit. Does that mean my unit denies the enemy the ability to enter the same tile as the civilian unit? Does it crash the game? When I upgrade, will that drop my supply by 1 so I can build another military unit? Maybe you can shed some light on these concerns before I consider the rest of the ideas. Thanks!

 

[pineappledan]

My idea for the Globe Trotter was that you could send them on arctic expeditions and chart the last bits of fog left on the empty parts of the map for /, probably at 2x the rate of the Bandeirante. Other than that, they would just be explorers with a bigger CS and the ability to enter mountain/ice. Not a super-useful unit overall, but it would fill the slot until paratroopers come in.

What if the Dirigible/Zeppelin/Satellite had 2 roles:

• could detect subs (remove detection from destroyers)
• Had a ranged attack and could move after attacking, but was only capable of attacking cities.

Zeppelins were used by some forces in WWI to bomb cities, but they were flew too high and were too inaccurate to hit anything smaller than a city, and guided bombs wouldn't exist for a long time. The code to make a unit only able to hit cities already exists (battering ram)

This would buff submarines, because you have a dedicated spotter unit that can only detect them, but can't attack them. This makes it more complicated to go after subs. It also narrows down the zeppelin line's focus, such that you could give them the naval ranged unit's AI and they should be able to fill their role okay.

Then, if they upgrade to satellites and lose their city attack, it wouldn't feel like such a loss because there are bombers at that point that can take over.

 

[amateurgamer88]

What if the Dirigible/Zeppelin/Satellite had 2 roles:

• could detect subs (remove detection from destroyers)
• Had a ranged attack and could move after attacking, but was only capable of attacking cities.

Zeppelins were used by some forces in WWI to bomb cities, but they were flew too high and were too inaccurate to hit anything smaller than a city, and guided bombs wouldn't exist for a long time. The code to make a unit only able to hit cities already exists (battering ram)

This would buff submarines, because you have a dedicated spotter unit that can only detect them, but can't attack them. This makes it more complicated to go after subs. It also narrows down the zeppelin line's focus, such that you could give them the naval ranged unit's AI and they should be able to fill their role okay.

Then, if they upgrade to satellites and lose their city attack, it wouldn't feel like such a loss because there are bombers at that point that can take over.

I feel that removing detection poses the biggest issue of how the AI will know how to do this. How would you program so the AI will build a few but not too many of these units? And will the AI know how to go through the complicated matter of escorting their units to take down subs? The current situation is simple where, if Destroyer spots Submarine, they will attack and destroy. I honestly don't know what the civ AI can and cannot be taught.

The challenge for wars this late isn't the city but all the units between your units and their cities. If I can reach the cities, I have basically cleared out the enemy forces. With a unit that can only attack cities, it's just not worth it. In this case, I feel even Cavalry, Light Tanks and Helicopters are more useful since they can attack units and, despite less damage to cities, will be more useful for the entire war. Given the pitiful state of Cavalry, Lights Tanks and Helicopters, that means I'll never get Dirigible/Zeppelin.

Given that you can unlock Bombers before Submarines, you can have a situation where these units are detection only. That's such a waste of hammers for me honestly.