need my speed
Rex Omnium Imperarium
Yeah, of course we would...Then it is at least acceptable, although the mere idea of DLC is still disgusting. In my opinion, that is.
Zero day DLC = disrespecting the customer
- Thread starter phungus420
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Chalks
The blue pieces
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Why? People like to throw around emotive terms like this, but being able to buy a bunch of content as soon as Firaxis writes it for £5.00 seems like a nice idea.
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
Who says they ever be included in expansion? Maybe they stay "exclusive" civ forever.
need my speed
Rex Omnium Imperarium
That would entirely depend on what the content is. If it is an expansion pack, yeah, it would be nice. If it is a single civilization with a single map, then, it is simply ripping the customer of.
Rusty Edge
Deity
Hmmm. How to step back from the precipice, away from the decline and fall of Civilization, given the promises that are already public?
DRM - I realize that Steam is most likely the lesser evil. There should be some kind of alternative... a mail-in registration with a processing fee. That would help people philosophically opposed to Steam and those who are poor/rural with little internet access.
One game/ One community - If they keep the Babylonians and map bonuses segregated in a scenario until the first annual expansion and admit the error of their ways. That bypassses a lot of potential MP/PBEM/Succession/Hall of Fame/Strategy guide/Forum issues- effectively we the gamers would not be divided.
Unprecedented Modabillity- Pay per DLC and "unprecedented modabillity" are at odds with one another. At least your idea would allow a modder to begin work on a project that included a piece of Babylonia without worry of the time and expense of potential legal trouble, knowing that it could be released to everyone next year.
If they wanted a bonus incentive for initial purchase through Steam, they should have used the backround graphic resources for Babylon to create a Throne Room instead. All eye candy and no gameplay.
Hopefully in the future pay per DLC for civ will restrict itself to things like modding & mapmaking tools and tutorials , or maybe even a civ simulator - which would use Sid himself in his office for the leader graphics, with the insert civ name on the deskfront, leader name on the desktop plack, and banner in the backround- allowing everybody to include their own country in the game. Of course Civulator would allow you to choose one building and unit to customize also.
This kind of approach could be a win for everyone.
Chalks
The blue pieces
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Well, if only we knew what the DLC will be. But we don't and you just prefer to claim it'll be terrible then moan about it.
So they've got something built, coded, tested and ready for the game. Then they take it out of the game and charge extra for it on day one. Sounds lovely. If this practice catches on as it sounds like it will and we extrapolate a bit, Civ 6 might come with only one civ out of the box and then you can buy each additional civ for a low, low cost of $9.99 at launch. Judging by this thread people will line up and defend that course of action too. Afterall they're only in it to make money right? Ah well, I've seen enough of this garbage to turn me off of Firaxis for good.
Chalks
The blue pieces
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No. They think "ok, we should make something extra for the deluxe edition" so they plan and write something new for it. it's probably not even written yet, they'll probably do it as a last thing.
If they included babylon they'd have to think of something else to give as a bonus gift for the deluxe edition. Which you'd complain about too.
Basically you're saying that there can be no special edition of the game, even though loads of games release special editions.
Lord Tirian
Erratic Poster
Note: The process between the final build of a game (i.e. when Firaxis finishes it and hands it over to the publisher) to the day of sale takes around three months. In this time, nothing can be done on the main game (since it's off to the presses already), but the studio can still work on stuff and then release it as DLC - and that's also the reason why games sometimes have patches around release day, the bugs were found in that gap.
For example, that's how BioWare could offer a free zero-day DLC for Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2 (and anybody who has played the game knows that Shale and Zaeed were well-integrated and worthwhile additions, not to mention that the downloads were 500+ mb each time, meaning a considerable amount of art assets and voice recordings were there as well); they used downtime to finish stuff that would've ended up on the cutting floor otherwise.
So, it may very well be a economic use of their time - I'm willing to give the guys at Firaxis the benefit of doubt for now. Though it does annoy me that I can't get the deluxe package as my regular order... that's a bit disappointing.
Cheers, LT.
deanej
Deity
Chalks - no one would complain if the special edition content had absolutely no impact on the game. You seem to not understand the problems this creates for modding, HOF, etc.
Chalks
The blue pieces
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If Babylon had not been written would you be complaining that it was not included?
So how does someone else being able to play as Babylon affect you at all?
Also, it creates no problems for modding. It only creates problems in the minds of people who want it to create problems.
All 2k have to say is "you can only distribute modified data, not unmodified data" as they did with all the expansion content and it's problem solved.
For some reason this is beyond the scope of your imagination. I'm not sure why. I wonder if you will still be confused when they make this announcement.
deanej
Deity
And what if a mod includes Babylon. I'm guessing you actually have no idea how modding works. Other than add-a-civ type mods, modding is NOT modular. I would go so far as to say that a monolithic mod is superior to a modular one except for the add-a-civ type mods. What if you make a scenario that needs Babylon? Assuming you didn't modify any of the civs, instant CTD for anyone with the regular edition. And if you did modify some aspects of some civs, you could have just given Babylon to someone who did not pay for it. I don't think you see the importance of everyone having the same core files.
NovaSilisko
Chieftain
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Don't you think it would have some way to prevent people from playing a scenario that requires Babylon?
"This scenario was built with content you do not possess." or something.
And, is there any confirmation that modding will NOT be modular?
deanej
Deity
If it's even remotely like civ4 it can't be, not for larger mods. If modding were completely modular, total conversion mods would not be possible.
As for Babylon, for there to be stuff like that, it would need to be hardcoded into the SDK, if not the EXE. Welcome to CTD land for anything that doesn't use Babylon.
As for Babylon, for there to be stuff like that, it would need to be hardcoded into the SDK, if not the EXE. Welcome to CTD land for anything that doesn't use Babylon.
NovaSilisko
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I was thinking it would be something along the lines of several tiers of modding.
One, the modular areas for things like new leaders, civilizations, and units.
Two, the area of modification for changing base gameplay attributes.
And three, the Total Conversion tier, which requires a full source code SDK.
But the game isn't out for several months. The only way to know absolutely for sure is to wait and find out.
One, the modular areas for things like new leaders, civilizations, and units.
Two, the area of modification for changing base gameplay attributes.
And three, the Total Conversion tier, which requires a full source code SDK.
But the game isn't out for several months. The only way to know absolutely for sure is to wait and find out.
Chalks
The blue pieces
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Oh, gee, perhaps they're making a brand new modding system for Civ 5.
They've only mentioned it like a billion times, perhaps you're not the only one who's spotted this potential problem and maybe they're going to design the modding system with this in mind?
deanej
Deity
I can't think of any other modding systems that wouldn't be less powerful than what we have now (minus more source code to the DLL and getting rid of GameFont.tga). When civ5 was first announced it was feared that modding would be less powerful in favor of making it easier for the common man. It seems those fears were justified.
NovaSilisko
Chieftain
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Just because you can't think of them doesn't mean they can't exist.
deanej
Deity
It might also be a good idea to consider that civ4 is the only game that is as moddable as civ4. For all other games, modding is less powerful and usually harder.
NovaSilisko
Chieftain
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Like I said, we're just gonna have to wait and see. Who knows, maybe they'll surprise us. They already have a few times.
