[RD] War in Gaza: News Thread

[E.man]

Top IDF commander in aid strike wanted to block humanitarian supplies into Gaza

Investigation shows officer signed a letter to Israel’s War Cabinet demanding a ‘siege’ of Gaza City

www.telegraph.co.uk

'Settler '. Say no more.

Good case for a war crimes trial I'd think.

 

[Kyriakos]

This is probably best to post here.
Varoufakis was banned from entering Germany and taking part (even through zoom/scype etc) in any event there. On account of pro-Palestine views.
Of interest to add is that his party is actually running in a number of euro countries for the euro election - including in Germany.

Μεσαίωνας! Στη Γερμανία διέλυσαν συνέδριο για την Παλαιστίνη και απαγόρευσαν κάθε δραστηριότητα του Βαρουφάκη! - Militaire.gr

Η Ευρώπη στο μεσαίωνα… Την πλήρη ακύρωση του «Συνεδρίου για την Παλαιστίνη», το οποίο ξεκίνησε την Παρασκευή στο Βερολίνο και επρόκειτο να διαρκέσει έως την Κυριακή, ανακοίνωσαν οι αρχές του κρατιδίου. Νωρίτερα, η αστυνομία είχε επέμβει για να διακόψει τις εργασίες της συνάντησης, όταν μέσω...

www.militaire.gr

It is a follow up from yesterday, when german police stopped a conference for Palestine:

 

[EnglishEdward]

Varoufakis was banned from entering Germany and taking part (even through zoom/scype etc) in any event there. On account of pro-Palestine views.
Of interest to add is that his party is actually running in a number of euro countries for the euro election - including in Germany.

So much for the EU's cherished Freedom of Movement.

 

[Kyriakos]

So much for the EU's cherished Freedom of Movement.

It's not even freedom of movement - those people are banned from even communicating through the web, under threat of fines.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

The police cut off power to prevent one of the online speakers from speaking

 

[EnglishEdward]

It's not even freedom of movement - those people are banned from even communicating through the web, under threat of fines.

Who would fine him ?

 

[Kyriakos]

Who would fine him ?

The state of Germany.
Not just Varou, anyone pro-Palestine speaking publicly to german media/organizations apparently.

 

[Gorbles]

So much for the EU's cherished Freedom of Movement.

This was a German decision. Much like how you always tried to extricate the UK from the EU when it helped, and entangled them when it also helped

 

[aelf]

This comic:

Yes, but this group of people who freak out at the mention of Hamas include those who aren't the boomers of today. They'll be the boomers of tomorrow.

You mean in the US?

It seems the only place where things like healthcare are called Socialist and drive ppl into spasms of stupidity.

Nope, not just the US. Eastern Europe seems to have similar tendencies.

 

[EnglishEdward]

@ Kyriakos

Thank you.

But I am not progressing this line, because it is more a EU project matter, in this particular thread.

Reverting to an earlier topic of applying leverage on Israel via limiting arms supplies.

There are people arguing for this in the UK.

But as far as I can see the UK's main role as a supplier to Israel is quite indirect, e.g. as a supplier of
aerospace components to US aerospace companies for the US military. e.g. Rolls Royce engines.
And there is a hard choice; one is either a supplier of such to US aerospace companies or one is not.
In the short term, any polite attempt to limit the US government's delivery of planes or other systems
containing UK components from reaching Israel is likely to be ignored. And any determined attempt to
limit spare parts etc is likely to result in the USAF removing the UK from its approved sub-contactor list.
That would reduce the little UK influence there is, and might be described as shooting oneself in the foot.

 

[Gorbles]

But I am not progressing this line, because it is more a EU project matter, in this particular thread.

"I made an unsubtantiated off-topic claim in an RD thread and then walked back any attempt at acknowledging counterpoints".

Anyhow. Let's move onto the next unsubstantiated claim, shall we?

But as far as I can see the UK's main role as a supplier to Israel is quite indirect

This article dates from 2021, but should provide an interesting snapshot in contrast:

British backing for Israel helps to sustain the unbearable status quo | Rafeef Ziadah

Diplomatic and military support – and a thriving arms trade – make the UK complicit, says Rafeef Ziadeh, lecturer at Soas University of London

www.theguardian.com

Here's something more recent:

Letter to the UK Government Calling for an Immediate Halt to UK Arms Transfers to the Government of Israel

Human Rights Watch, alongside a group of UK-based civil society groups working in and on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, have written to the UK Government calling for an immediate halt to UK arms transfers to the government of Israel.

www.hrw.org

 

[EnglishEdward]

What counterpoint ?

 

[Gorbles]

What counterpoint ?

Oh, I already moved on, in the spirit of discussion. Are my links informative?

 

[EnglishEdward]

I note that you have not answered my question.

As for your links.

There is a clear risk that arms and military equipment transferred to Israel might be used to facilitate or
commit serious violations of international law, including attacks that may amount to war crimes.

The thing is that risk is always there irrespective as to which country the military stuff is sold to.
Once the arms or military equipment are delivered, the recipient can always use them inappropriately.
That risk can only be removed by the UK not selling any arms or military equipment to anyone.

Accordingly, the UK Government should immediately suspend both extant licenses for military
equipment and technology and the issuing of new licenses ..

This would be appropriate if the relevant international court had definitely concluded that Israel was
commmiting war crimes or genocide with them, but last time I checked it had not concluded that.

 

[Gorbles]

I note that you have not answered my question.

I note in turn that you weren't progressing the previous line, so I said my bit and moved on. Shouldn't we all? I assume you're not deciding who gets to reply to what, so with that in mind, freedom of expression comes naturally.

The thing is that risk is always there irrespective as to which country the military stuff is sold to.

That there is, but this isn't actually the argument you made. You made the argument that the UK's role is "quite indirect". Now it seems to be a defense of the UK by (confusingly) assuming it didn't do due diligence in predicting the use of the aid it provides. Seems like a weak argument, but maybe I'm missing something.

This would be appropriate if the relevant international court had definitely concluded that Israel was
commmiting war crimes or genocide with them, but last time I checked it had not concluded that.

Again, an irrelevant distraction from the original claim. I linked the piece because it provides some numbers (that - compared to US aid given - can be made to seem rather small) that correlate the aid with being decidedly direct. Not indirect, as per your claim.

 

[EnglishEdward]

I suggest you read this sentence from the article you linked again:

The UK provides approximately 15 percent of the components in the F-35 stealth bomber aircraft currently being used in Gaza, including
the rear fuselage and active interceptor system, ejector seats, aircraft tires, refueling probe, laser targeting system, and the fan propulsion system.

Logic suggests to me that those components are provided to US aerospace companies who assemble the aeroplanes.
The assembled planes are then provided to the USAF. The USAF then provides those complete aeroplanes to the IDF.

With at least two intermediaries:

(a) US aerospace companies
and
(b) US government Air Force

so I regard such supplies to Israel as "indirect".

 

[Kyriakos]

In the Uk it is going to be also difficult to do a u-turn on Israel, when antisemitism was the core of how the previous party leader was attacked, also by the current party leader.
Can't really do more than mumble the complete opposite of what they yelled just before.

 

[EnglishEdward]

That is true, but I am disinclined to further discuss it here as there is a UK politics thread.

 

[Smellincoffee]

I saw that "Isreal" is trending on twitter. Is that spelling political, or are people so stupid they can't spell Israel?

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I saw that "Isreal" is trending on twitter. Is that spelling political, or are people so stupid they can't spell Israel?

It is deliberate and political, but I forget what the connotation is supposed to be