£100 billion in gold

And your hypothetical annual sales of gold wouldn't have been noticed by anyone. :coffee:

That wouldn't be a problem. Every few months I'd take a briefcase with a as much gold as I can carry and get on a train to Switzerland.
 
What if instead of fake the real story is some secret Russian plan to try to buy official public Japanese surrender.
 
That wouldn't be a problem. Every few months I'd take a briefcase with a as much gold as I can carry and get on a train to Switzerland.
I conclude you don't have a lot of experience in money laundering.
Which is good.
 
What if instead of fake the real story is some secret Russian plan to try to buy official public Japanese surrender.
That would actually be pretty funny, since the Japanese government was in severe financial trouble at the time.

Although the Japanese military had repeatedly forced the Russian army in Manchuria to retreat, and had captured the Russian base at Port Arthur, the primary Japanese goal had not been met: the Russian army had not been destroyed and was, in fact, being continually reinforced. The Japanese were already outnumbered and had suffered frightful casualties that they could not realistically absorb. After the Battle of Shenyang in March, one could reasonably argue that the Imperial Japanese Army had conquered itself to death. Furthermore, the Japanese government was running into considerable trouble financing its own military operations. Money was actually the government's weak spot, although converting that weakness into some sort of advantage for the Russians to exploit for a more favorable peace would've been difficult.

After the Battle of Shenyang, the Russians enjoyed considerable advantages and could probably have launched a counteroffensive in perfectly optimized circumstances. Morale was low but started climbing again within a few weeks. The Baltic Fleet was on its way, although it wasn't clear what it was supposed to actually do now that Port Arthur was in the hands of the Japanese, since Vladivostok lacked port facilities and drydocks for repair, especially for the Russians' larger vessels. A few things militated against that counteroffensive, though: morale was lower among many commanders and in the government than it was on the actual battlefields; the Baltic Fleet was annihilated in one of the most lopsided naval defeats in history; the government was under international pressure to wrap up the war; and finally, the government decided that its internal problems were getting close to a real revolution and wanted to disengage from its foreign responsibilities in order to address them.
 
In 1904-05, the land route to Manchuria was the Russians' main artery for transporting troops, munitions, clothes, and other supplies east for the war. It was guarded by thousands of soldiers. It was, to all intents and purposes, one of the safest places in Russia - arguably more so than many cities in European Russia, given the revolutionary violence that was already starting to break out.

I mean, the Russians almost certainly didn't ship 200 tons of gold to the Far East, but if they did need to ship it there, the overland route was a much safer option than loading it all on one cruiser and hoping the Japanese decided not to fight them on the way in.
Is that our 20/20 hindsight talking? Clearly, at the time, one or more people in power thought that 200 tons by sea was a better option. Their reasoning would be interesting to know. Maybe the army couldn't be trusted?

Perhaps similarly, didn't the US park tractor trailer loads of $100 bills in the ME that were captured and looted? Or maybe that is fantasy. In any case we can look back now and say "What were they thinking?" The lens of failure colors the decisions people made while had there been success, those same decisions would go unnoticed.
 
Is that our 20/20 hindsight talking? Clearly, at the time, one or more people in power thought that 200 tons by sea was a better option. Their reasoning would be interesting to know. Maybe the army couldn't be trusted?

Perhaps similarly, didn't the US park tractor trailer loads of $100 bills in the ME that were captured and looted? Or maybe that is fantasy. In any case we can look back now and say "What were they thinking?" The lens of failure colors the decisions people made while had there been success, those same decisions would go unnoticed.
It's not "clear", because we don't actually know that the ship does contain 200 tons of gold. The only people who are saying this are the people who claim to be salvaging it, who have an interest in drumming up publicity; there are plenty who disagree. Importantly, Shinil has not produced any proof of the gold.

I agree that plenty of governments have made suboptimal decisions - including, obviously, the Russian government in the Manchurian War, because it lost the war - but this alleged suboptimal decision is just tough to swallow. It's theoretically possible, but very unlikely.

The more likely possibility is that Shinil Group has put out this claim in order to raise capital. The Korean government is, in fact, monitoring them to ensure that that is not the case. The government located the wreck of the Dmitrii Donskoi back in 2003 but found no gold, and at least one company has since falsely claimed to have found gold on the wreck of the Donskoi to raise stock prices and avoid bankruptcy. It's worrisome that most of the publicity about the cruiser wreck seems to imply that Shinil found the wreck when it did not, and it's similarly worrisome that nobody has produced any actual evidence of gold there.

This may have to be filed with the fake gold train rumors that surfaced two years ago in Poland. While it would undoubtedly be very cool to find such a hoard, the odds are against it ever being on the Dmitrii Donskoi, and in favor of the whole thing being another grift for unwary Korean investors.
 
This is a timely news story/thread considering the most recent episode of Hardcore History focuses on this time period.
 
I conclude you don't have a lot of experience in money laundering.
Which is good.

Of course !
If I had any experience I wouldn't need professional help from the Swiss.
 
Turns out the naysayers were, in fact, exactly right:

Kim Tong-Hyung said:
SEOUL, Korea, Republic Of -- A South Korean company on Thursday backed off its claim to have found a sunken Russian warship with an enormous cargo of gold as financial regulators began investigating whether the outlandish treasure tale involved stock market fraud.

The Seoul-based Shinil Group said it doesn't know if any gold coins and bars would be found inside the sunken ship it identified as the Dmitrii Donskoi, which sank 113 years ago. Company officials previously claimed 200 tons of gold worth 150 trillion won ($133 billion) would likely still be aboard the vessel.

"There's no way for us to figure out whether there would be gold coins or bars on the Donskoi, and if there is, how large the amount would be," said Choi Yong-seok, Shinil's president, in a bizarre news conference in Seoul.

Choi said he was in his first day as the company's president, following the withdrawal of his predecessor Ryu Sang-mi and other board members who Choi said felt "burdened" by heightened public suspicions that the gold claim masked a financial scam.

Choi denied any wrongdoing. But he failed to clearly explain why one of Ryu's relatives was operating a Singapore-based company of the same name that had conducted private sales of its cryptocurrencies while reportedly promising dividends from profits created by the gold found on the ship. Ryu didn't attend the news conference.


Shinil has yet to obtain government permission to raise the ship, which it said divers found more than 400 metres (0.25 miles) underwater off the eastern island of Ulleung. It's also unclear whether the company would able to claim ownership of the ship's assets even if it manages to retrieve them.

Experts had said it's unlikely that the 6,000-ton Donskoi, a thickly armoured warship with more than 12 artillery pieces, 500 sailors and presumably 1,600 tons of coal, would have had room for 200 tons of gold, which would be double the current gold reserves at South Korea's central bank. There were also questions about the gold's worth being estimated at $133 billion -- the Bank of Korea's 104 tons of gold reserves are valued at around $4.8 billion.

Russian officials have said any gold on board likely would have been a small amount, in the form of coins to pay the ships' crew.

Choi offered a "sincere apology" for the company's "unverified" claim of 200 tons of gold worth $133 billion possibly being on the ship, saying that it was based on "speculative" materials and media reports. He said Shinil still hopes to find something of "sufficient financial value" and that the teams who studied the wreck reported finding "multiple bundles of boxes firmly fastened with rope."

However, Jeff Heaton, a Canadian pilot who operated one of the submersibles that discovered the vessel, told reporters later in the news conference that no such boxes were seen.

An official from South Korea's Financial Supervisory Service said Thursday that the regulator has started investigating allegations of stock market fraud surrounding Shinil and another local company, Jeil Steel.

Choi, whose investment company owns 50 per cent of Shinil, has recently agreed on a deal to become the majority shareholder of Jeil. If the deal goes through, Ryu would be Jeil's second-largest shareholder.

After Shinil's initial announcement on the Russian ship, Jeil's stock prices rose by 30 per cent on South Korea's KOSDAQ market last Tuesday and continued to rise the next morning before Jeil in a regulatory filing said it has "no relation to the treasure ship business." Jeil's stock prices have since plummeted amid rising skepticism over the claims of gold.

The FSS official, who didn't want to be named, citing office rules, said the regulator was looking into various possibilities of deceptive practices, including whether investors were induced by a deliberate distribution of false information.

Choi denied the suspicions of stock market fraud. He also said his company has nothing to do with the Shinil Gold Coins being sold by the eponymous firm based in Singapore. However, Choi admitted that the effort to find the ship was initially launched by the Singapore-based company. The Seoul-based Shinil wasn't established until June.

"Chairman Yu Ji-beom (of the Singapore-based Shinil Group) began the search efforts, but the (South Korean) Shinil Group that's trying to raise the Donskoi is a new company that was created to better protect Donskoi's value as a historic asset," Choi said. He provided no further details about the business connections between the two companies and later rushed out of the conference room as reporters pursued him for more questions.

It's unclear whether Shinil would receive government approval of its salvage plans. Local laws aimed at preserving national territory and property require the company to deposit 10 per cent of the estimated value of the shipwreck before starting its salvage works.

The Pohang Regional Office of Oceans and Fisheries had earlier said Shinil must deposit 15 trillion won ($13 billion), based on the company officials' initial assessment about how much gold is likely aboard the ship. Shinil disagreed on the amount of its possible deposit, saying what it has officially located was the shipwreck, not treasures on it. It estimated the shipwreck's value at 1.2 billion won ($1 million) and planned to put down 120 million won ($107,000) as a deposit.

Bolding mine.

So, the tl;dr: it was never likely the ship had all that gold on it, Shinil used the opportunity to do some shady shenanigans with cryptocurrencies and stock prices, and they're backing off from their earlier extravagant claims now that they're under investigation by the South Korean government - just like the previous Dmitrii Donskoi scam. What a surprise!

This is why we can't have nice things.
 
as financial regulators began investigating whether the outlandish treasure tale involved stock market fraud.

Ah, now I conceive of the quarter whence bloweth the wind
 
That's a pity - this means they won't bother to raise the ship, most likely.
Unless Russia "finds" some documents confirming there were indeed tons of gold on that ship :mischief:
Indeed 200 tons of gold were needed in Vladivostok because... reasons and Siberia was very dangerous place to move that gold through!
 
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