.01 - Guerrillas!

I've always been a big proponent of letting city borders pop huts - they have the same chance matrix as scouts AND it lets your scout do actual scouting...

I agree with Crotazzo - a worker should not be built until we've grown to at least 2 AND have something more for him to do.
 
:blush:

I realized that I had no logger for the game. :sad: So I tried to get one working. And I didn't succeed. :gripe: But that was quite an Odyssey. So long story short:

I will play tomorrow! Report up by tomorrow 22:00 or 10 PM 23:59 (GMT +2). Sorry².

And it will be Scout >> Warrior >> Worker prodwise.
Techwise: If Izzy's in the game and has a slightly better starting spot that's meditation down the drain.
So, I'm pondering AH as a start. ... :confused:
 

I've moved our scout a bit.
Production: Scout > Warrior.
Teching: Meditation > AH.
All of our units are still alive.
We have met a few furry enemies but no humans.
Well, except for those from the six tribal villages :eek::

1sthut.jpg


Spoiler the end of the world :
The freshly gained scout revealed to us that we are indeed in the far south:

theendoftheworld.jpg


2ndand3rdhut.jpg


4thhut.jpg


5thand6thhut.jpg



The turn before we popped huts 5 and 6 the following happend:

3550BC.jpg


And that was already about it! :blush:
For those who don't actually want to look at the save to see our freshly discovered land I've taken a short trip in the mind of an eagle. It was pretty cramped in there! Here are some impressions of that flight:

NE

NE.jpg



SE

SE.jpg



SW

SW.jpg



NW

NW.jpg

Conclusion:
  • We could have stone, even if it'd possibly mean to not capture but build Nara!
  • The yet not revealed land to the NW might be promising.
  • Scowler, you can pop a hut right after hitting Enter! WSW of Bibracte.
  • We could have a monopoly on deer! :p

I think that masonry and archery should be pretty high up on our list soon! That is for the dun and Guerrila Archers! Possibly the Great Wall! That's it.


Kind regards from Celtia, .

 
What I forgot to say: Look out for all those nice possible choke points!

Spoiler dot's odyssey :
Today I went to RV to get my copy of BtS. They say, some people are addicted to this game but I don't believe that crap.

Here's what happened. I rode to the station at my local town and got myself a ticket - two ways. (I just wanted to get BtS and go back maybe after having a beer with some friends.) For some reason the train was delayed by twenty minutes. After 22 minutes it arrived and i got on board. :)
Due to the delay I missed the train I was meant to catch at another station. So I had to take a later one that stopped at every tiny station. At the last station before reaching RV (some four or five km away) it stopped and didn't continue due to some trouble on the rail some 10 to 20 km ahead. :huh:
We had to leave the train and were offered neither any opportunities nor any help to leave that little station. :shake:
So me and two of the others decided to walk towards the next village. We were quite lucky, since we arrived at the next bus stop just in time to catch a bus towards RV. :cool:
When we finally arrived in Ravensburg (with about two hours travelling time instead of 40 minutes) I finally got my copy of BtS. From then on everything went fine.

The odd thing about this story is that I never got upset or angry while being delayed and left alone all the time. I knew it was all only to get my copy of BtS. They say, some people are addicted to this game but I don't believe that crap.
 
dot >> Just played.
Scowler >> Up for 20.
bobrath >> On deck.
GreyFox >> Still roaming the world ...
Crotazzo >> Having his patience tried on being up in his first SG.​
 
lurkers comment

Highland maps are always short in good land, and this one is no exception. You had luck in that regard ( 2 decent chunks of grassland near enough for 2nd and 3rd cities ).
I'll follow this. Good luck!
 
well... we have a pretty ugly start. I don't think we will be able to work the stone, as the best city placement there will have at most 2 grasslands, and no food resource (maybe behind those mountains?).
Either way, those raging barbs can be a real pain, and our capital it's pretty open in the south, we will need around 6 archers to defend (maybe for 3rd or 4th turn), so expanding will have to wait. I don't think we can get to masonry + bronze (for chopping) + stone to rush the great walls in time before they start attacking us.
 
lurkers comment

Highland maps are always short in good land, and this one is no exception. You had luck in that regard ( 2 decent chunks of grassland near enough for 2nd and 3rd cities ).
I'll follow this. Good luck!
Yes! Highland maps are short in good land. That's why I've picked one. The chances on economical growth are usually rather limited. There tend to be a couple of floodplain tiles around, though. And I've rolled starts with these. Actually this one id the worst start I've rolled. Like out of 14, or sth. But it's the one I've wanted. :groucho:
:goodjob: Happy lurking, r_rolo1! You're comments will be welcome.

well... we have a pretty ugly start. I don't think we will be able to work the stone, as the best city placement there will have at most 2 grasslands, and no food resource (maybe behind those mountains?).

Now, it's three grasslands, but yes, no food ressource. But that could still make for a decent size 8 city used as a nearby military powerhouse >> Constant production of military.
There could be (at size eight) 0 :food: (surplus), 12 :hammers: (estimated), 6 :commerce: (raw). And that is before chainfarming and windmills.

NWreplytocrotazzo.jpg



Either way, those raging barbs can be a real pain, and our capital it's pretty open in the south, we will need around 6 archers to defend (maybe for 3rd or 4th turn), so expanding will have to wait. I don't think we can get to masonry + bronze (for chopping) + stone to rush the great walls in time before they start attacking us.
Now, here's something to falsify! ;)
Well I'm not saying that we'll have no barb attacks. But I am saying that we can get that done before they become a real pain in the ... Yes. Maybe even without chopping anything into the wall. But we will need a couple of archers, true! Good point there.
 
The early turns continue to pass quickly. It's mostly exploring: searching for huts and dodging the wildlife, which is out in force - especially lions:


civ4warlords20070729060zg3.jpg


The first hut I find pops us another scout - very useful! I got a little bit of gold, but plenty of experience from the others. All our scouts are alive and (mostly) sensibly promoted.

Then we started meeting people. The following appeared in quick succession:

  • Peter
  • Nappy
  • Toku
  • Huayna
Nappy and Huayna are already butting heads. It looks as though the nearby land may be taken fairly soon.


civ4warlords20070729052vy8.jpg


AH was completed after 15 turns; I took the cautious option and chose Archery next

After the warrior was finished I started on a worker. He has just been finished and sent out to build a camp on the deer. I set production temporarily to barracks (there are 4 turns still remaining on Archery) - veto as desired.


civ4warlords20070729054in7.jpg


Here are the lands that we have uncovered, along with the locations of our neighbours:


civ4warlords20070729054tb5.jpg


civ4warlords20070729054oz8.jpg


civ4warlords20070729054su6.jpg


The nitty gritty detail of the turnset:

Spoiler autolog :
Turn 19/660 (3430 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:12:59]

IBT:

Turn 20/660 (3400 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:15:29]
Tribal village results: scout

IBT:
While defending in the wild, Scout defeats (0.84/1): Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 89.4%)

Turn 21/660 (3370 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:17:33]
Contact made: Russian Empire
Bibracte finishes: Warrior

IBT:
While defending in the wild, Scout defeats (0.82/1): Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 73.8%)

Turn 22/660 (3340 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:19:17]
Tribal village results: experience
Contact made: French Empire
Scout promoted: Woodsman I
Bibracte begins: Worker (18 turns)

IBT:

Turn 23/660 (3310 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:22:09]
Scout promoted: Woodsman I
Scout promoted: Woodsman II
Contact made: Japanese Empire

IBT:
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Napoleon(France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 24/660 (3280 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:23:34]

IBT:

Turn 25/660 (3250 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:24:36]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Napoleon(France), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 26/660 (3220 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:25:28]
Tribal village results: a little gold

IBT:
While defending in the wild, Scout defeats (0.10/1): Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 73.8%)
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Napoleon(France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 27/660 (3190 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:26:57]
Contact made: Incan Empire

IBT:
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 28/660 (3160 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:28:45]

IBT:

Turn 29/660 (3130 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:29:54]

IBT:
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Peter(Russia) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 30/660 (3100 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:30:37]

IBT:
Hinduism founded in a distant land
While defending in the wild, Scout defeats (0.15/1): Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 78.7%)

Turn 31/660 (3070 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:31:13]
Scout promoted: Woodsman I
Tribal village results: experience
Bibracte's borders expand

IBT:
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Napoleon(France), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Peter(Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Peter(Russia) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 32/660 (3040 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:32:46]
Scout promoted: Guerilla I

IBT:

Turn 33/660 (3010 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:33:26]
Tech learned: Animal Husbandry

IBT:

Turn 34/660 (2980 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:34:11]
Research begun: Archery (10 Turns)

IBT:
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Peter(Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 35/660 (2950 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:34:53]
Tribal village results: experience

IBT:

Turn 36/660 (2920 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:35:19]

IBT:

Turn 37/660 (2890 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:36:24]
Scout promoted: Guerilla I

IBT:

Turn 38/660 (2860 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:37:12]
Tribal village results: experience

IBT:
While defending in the wild, Scout defeats (0.52/1): Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 89.4%)
While defending in the wild, Scout defeats (0.64/1): Barbarian Wolf (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

Turn 39/660 (2830 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:38:18]
Scout promoted: Woodsman II
Scout promoted: Woodsman I
Bibracte finishes: Worker

IBT:
While defending in the wild, Scout defeats (0.52/1): Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 88.9%)

Turn 40/660 (2800 BC) [29-Jul-2007 05:39:12]
Bibracte begins: Barracks (38 turns)





"Wish you were here"

:p
 
Best picture postcard - Ever! :thumbsup: :cool:

:goodjob: Nice set.
One minor request: could you embed the link to the save in this beautiful postcard? Thanx in advance.

*** Roster ***

dot >> Hoping that he'll be able to fix the warlords issues after patching.
Scowler >> Just played.
bobrath >> Up for 20.
GreyFox >> On deck.
Crotazzo >> Having his patience tried on being up in his first SG.
 
Sorry, playing the SGOTM took up too much wife-time. I'm on ground duty til Thursday - thus I'll need an autoskip.

Again, sorry but I always obey the person that is next to me when I sleep!

;)
 
Again, sorry but I always obey the person that is next to me when I sleep!

You always obey the person that is next to you when you sleep ...

but you aren't sleeping now, so don't need to obey.

That will put me up in 3 (or 4, if you've played SGOTM) simultaneously. :aargh:

--
 
This is just a short message to bob and GF:

Relax, Gentlemen! ;)

I have a couple of thoughts coming up that I'd like to post somewhen later today and see discussed in the following 24 after posting. So let's all have a short break for this and continue with the usual 24/48 after the break. :crazyeye: Fine?!
 
[...]
Before setting the Variant Rules I'd like to hear the thoughts of those who might be playing. I've been thinking about the following:
  • Even though all victory conditions are enabled we might want to limit that for us.
  • In order to achieve a victory we must have ...
    • destroyed at least one civ.
    • a least one vassal.
    • founded a religion and have a "spread percentage" of >40%.
  • Make use of the UU and the UB to learn about them.
[...]
Edit:
Well, the disclaimer has a point there. So here are a couple of things that are different on a Highland Map:
  1. Traderoutes are way harder to establish due to the lack of coastal trades. And roading is slightly more difficult due to the hills.
  2. The settings Ridgelines + Dense Peaks is letting the entire map be more like a maze at some points. That is also affecting trade routes and even more military strategy.
  3. From 1. and 2. concludes that the economy is usually not growing fast, hence expansion is limited.
  4. From 1. and 2. follows furthermore that religions need to be spread mostly actively! With ten civs in total on the map that might be a nice additional challenge!
  5. Brennus is chm/spi. The charismatic trait + UB + Vassalage or Theocracy + barracks = Guerrilla III!

Variant Rules

I don't think that anyone has said anything yet about limiting our viccons. I don't think that I'd like to go for a time victory. Everything else seems fine to me.
Furthermore I've been thinking about the following: Since we are now buddhists we can't declare war on anyone. DP being the sole exception.
Once we've been declared upon - :evil: - we turn into Guerrillas! :trouble: :ar15:
No peace will be taken until the civ has become extinct or our vassal.
What do you all think?

.maps

I've made a little .map. Here's the map and underneath are my thoughts.

dotmap.jpg


  • Green. The green spot would be for grabbing some stone. And possibly get The Great Wall up. Maybe even the mids later on. It wouldn't be much of a big city but could make for a decent military producer.
  • Red. The red spot could be quite a decent city and as nearly every city on a highlands map would also make for a decent producer.
  • Blue. The blue spot is crucial, imho. It would provide two luxury ressources, bring in quite some raw commerce and could be a rather big city, too.
  • Yellow. The yellow spot is a mere spacefiller regarding ressources. But with all those grassland tiles it could be used as a cottage city as well as a GP farm, methinx.
  • Brown. The brown spot might be good for two reasons. First one is grabbing the spices. It could also be helping to block us off from our northeastern neighbours. (see further down this post)
  • White. That's our capitol, Bibracte. It could maybe take on some early religious wonders. But that depends on whether we can get TGW (less military needed) and on how fast we can get out a couple of workers and settlers.

I would say settle Green > Blue > ?. What do you think? :crazyeye:

Choke Points

I haven't drawn a map on Choke Points yet. But I think that the land to our east holds plenty of them! Have a look at the save please and post your thoughts. ;) The brown spot could be the most northern CP even though it's far from being perfect.

Economy

What kind of economy do you think we might be likely to run? :undecide:

******************​

So far so good. I hope to see some replies to this post in the next 24. :D I am well aware that all those nice plans will be blown to hell with one smart :lol: - err - stupid move by the AI or by other ressources popping up (BW/IW). I'd just like to get a general idea of what you all think/feel. Regarding the variant rules I'd definitely like to limit viccons and set the rules right after finishing our first turnset.

Thank you for reading, thinking and replying. :hatsoff:
 
What a post card!! very nice effect on the sides and everything, nicely done.

i´ve been playing some similar games to this one, and in every one of them i popped at least 2 techs. In this game we mastly popped experience, so probably we are falling behind in tech right now. That means that by the time we reach alphabet, we might be doubled in score by 1 or more civs.

IMHO, for the second city we need to get a city that helps spwning arches the first few rounds, and can be a good commerce-science city after that (until we get to the blue spot and grab gold).
Then i would choose the red spot, and try to boost its culture to get the cows asap, that are a powerfull tile at this time.
To do that we could do the following:
1. research the wheel to hook up cityes and pray for our religion to spread (not a big fan of this one)
2. Research mining and bronze right after archery and chop a monument in our second city
3. Research mining and bronze right after archery and chop-rush stonehenge or the great walls.
Stonehenge: Will boost our culture in both of our cities, and the +8 culture in our capital will give us the stone soon enough to chop-rush the myds or great wall if we want to.
Great wall: Will take out our barb problems, giving us the chance to focus on early growing and perhaps the oracle with little units to defend a 3rd city. +2 great engeneer might give us the piramyds in time as well (some more exprienced player please feedback on this one).

I choose the third option, leaving the wonder choice at your discussion
 
Seems like a good enough plan ... Great Wall is crucial I think, since the map makes barbs doubly hard to repel with the terrain defense they enjoy. But I don't think the stonehenge culture will allow stone to be in fast enough (require 2 cultural pops AFAICT, we are only at 7cpt@210/750 ), nor the engineer will spawn fast enough to make it for pyramids.

My proposal to go ahead settle the stone city, and settle red as well. By then, the stone may be just connected, then w ecan chop rush the henge and the wall.

--
 
:crazyeye:

7500.jpg

You live - You learn!

Sir bobrath and Sir Scowler, may I ask you to leave your thoughts here, too. I'd like to have some "O.k., let's go!" or "No!". Being a tad more detailed if the latter is the case would be much appreciated. ;)
 
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