10 turn t/c's-15 turn t/c's do you care?

[FortyJ]

With respect to turn limits in turn chats...
There should be no reason to end the chat on an arbitrary number of rounds. This could lead to a situation where no discussion is necessary (ie. "Keep doing what we're doing...") between turn chats, which is neither a practical use of forum time, nor is it enjoyable.

With respect to time limits in turn chats...
Preturn discussions and the necessary protocol (stating the t/c instructions, etc...) requires quite a bit of time. Compound this with the occasional? need for spot polls and the amount of playing time in a turn chat is significantly reduced. This also could result in a "Keep doing what we're doing" type situation at the end of the turn chat.

I believe that it should be left up to the DP to determine the appropriate time to stop game play. Before some of you go screaming about cowboy diplomacy and runaway turn chats, keep in mind that there will still be checks and balances as before. Participants in the chat can always cry out "Take it to the Forums!" and force a stoppage if the DP acts inappropriately.

Furthermore, the likelihood of any turn chat lasting more than a couple of hours seems remote and the likelihood of completing more than 10 turns or so in that time period (while still following protocol and posting status updates each turn, etc...) seems similarly remote.

I say we leave it up to the DP and let that individual determine an appropriate time to take the discussions back to the forums.

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Originally posted by Shaitan
I took the day off of work to nurse a sick wife and protect her from our evil children.

You've got some of those too, eh?

 

[disorganizer]

How about a new rule?
If at least 2 people online at the chat state their motion to stop the chat, the DP has to stop it.

Or at least:
... has to call for a citizen spot vote, after which the chat has to be stopped if 1/3 of the voting citizens want it.

These low limits should it make easy for a chat to be stopped, even if only few people are there.

 

[Eklektikos]

Originally posted by Falcon02


Like I added several minutes before you posted, I was ACTUALLY refering to that in the Forums, ala city placement.

I'd started my reply before you edited. I'm a slow poster... so sue me

 

[Shaitan]

Making a rule that allows a minority of people to overrule the majority is a bit counter-democratic.

 

[disorganizer]

Nope. In that case not. It is a stop vote.
And the stop will help the democracy as decissions can be taken to the forum and then the real and not chat-majority will decide.
So in that case, it will make it more democratic.
Finally, at the moment only 1 player decides when to stop or continue
In my proposal, we will have at least 2. Who will be needed to pre-stop.
See it as "emergency break".

Example:
up to 8 people on the chat (incl. DP):
so 2 people will be needed to stop the chat

9-11 people: 3 needed
12-15 people: 4 needed

so there must be many people to be for stopping if the dp doesnt want to.

 

[FortyJ]

Dis
Interesting suggestions. However, it should be harder to overturn the elected president (or current DP at the time) than by a 1/3 vote of citizens.

The constitution empowers the DP to "end the chat turn at his/her discretion" (COS-E-10). If anything, it should require at least 2/3 of the citizens (or a majority of the council at the very least) to overturn his/her decision to play on.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Shaitan
Making a rule that allows a minority of people to overrule the majority is a bit counter-democratic.

*Ok, Shaitan, get your shield up. More arrows about to fly.*

Our despotic president, who: deemed it unnecessary to poll on the use of a Great Leader, who is the only president in TWO demo games to not stop a turn chat when GL was gotten, who played fifteen turns at his first turn chat despite a historical limit of 10, who holds chats when most citizens are sleeping, and who will not hold special elections for the governors of our new provinces, is now arguing for democratic principles!

This should be in the dictionary under ironic.

*Ok, you can lower your shield now.*

 

[Shaitan]

No shield necessary, though I may need a white noise generator soon.

The issue with the Great Leader has been explained over and over again unto death. Please give it a rest or request a PI over it.

I will ALWAYS support democratic principles. I will also ALWAYS make decisions to the best of my ability, within the rules, for the overall benefit of the game and its players. I WILL NOT be bound by conventions that I do not agree with. Lastly, I WILL use the rules that are in place and will not apologize for doing so.

It would be illegal for me to hold special elections under these circumstances so that will absolutely not be taken under consideration. I will also not hold these offices open for the length of time changing the rules would require.

 

[BCLG100]

i think we should have 15 turn t/cs for now we have had so many chats which have just been a few turns so these would get us backc on track

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Shaitan
The issue with the Great Leader has been explained over and over again unto death. Please give it a rest or request a PI over it.

It would be illegal for me to hold special elections under these circumstances so that will absolutely not be taken under consideration. I will also not hold these offices open for the length of time changing the rules would require.

I will reply to these in the appropriate threads. I don't want to risk my responses here being edited out by a mod.

 

[Chieftess]

10 turns. Why? Simply because of the difficulty level, and the need for more trading/planning. The AI out paces us, and we shouldn't be wasting any turns.


EDIT: *notices how muddy the room is and ducks from all the mudslinging*

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by Shaitan
I don't think there needs to be a fixed stop time. As long as new situations do not arise during game play there is no real reason to stop playing. For example, the last chat went 15 turns (though none of us there realized we had gone that long until Chieftess pointed it out the next day). The plans discussed and posted on the Forums were carried out and nothing unexpected came up until the very end when we captured the Great Library and we stopped.

That's the "one more turn syndrome" for 'ya!

 

[Padma]

While the "10-Turn Limit" is traditional, that is all that it is. As has been noted, the DP ends play at his/her discretion. I recall some discussions at the chats, as well as in the forums, where it was agreed that this meant the DP could go beyond 10 turns, as well as stop short.

real Time considerations make going beyond 10 unlikely in most cases, anyway.

I would say "open-ended chats".

 

[Falcon02]

Ahhh, the classic "One More Turn Syndrom" that's one thing we're trying to go against here, a DP, esp. when done without a true t/c or with a low population in the chat, they could fall victim to this disease and not realize that they're making decisions themselves, which are perfectly fine for their own games, but not the Demogame.

Dis' proposal reminds me of essentially what we've done NUMBEROUS times in Demogame 1. We would often encounter decisions which were contraversial, and we'd have a spot vote over whether to stop or not. I like this idea.

40J, in Demogame 1 I know we at least 1 25 (or near 25 turn t/c) That was fine, but I feel there should be some MAX around this range, since trade options often changes from one turn to another. And many of these must be taken back to the forums for reconcideration.

Now for "one more turn" before going to class j/k but I'll likely suffer from that in a little bit.

 

[disorganizer]

Also i would like to point out again that if we limit the rl-time of the chat to a max of 4-6 hours and force the dp to post an specific timeframe with a specific end-time, we wont be able to get over 15 turns when decissions have to be taken there.

And this would also allow the participants a better time-planning. Though it may lead to us stopping the chat for example in the middle of a trade or maybe 1 turn before a tech is finished researching...

 

[FortyJ]

Despite this most recent turn chat lasting 15 turns, I'd argue that we stopped 1 turn too soon. Once we get all the techs from the Great Library, and the world map from the Aztecs, it is possible that we will have some beneficial trades available to us. We will also be more informed of the world around us to better discuss our next challenge (ie. Japan ).

In short, and to answer Cyc's original question in this thread, I don't care if the turn chat is 10 turns, 15 turns or 1 turn (although a lengthy run of consecutive 1 turn chats can get tedious also, right CT). As long as the DP acts responsibly and with the best interests of the citizens that he or she was elected to represent, I've got no problem with it.

Besides, I would think that the pure tedium of having to post summary information (national income, research status, city status for each city, etc.) in the chat room each turn would negate the one more turn effect in almost any rational human being.

 

[Cyc]

*Cyc completely agrees with 40J on the last chat ending one turn to soon. Although I stand with the 10 turn crowd, we should have heard Three Stooges music playing at the end of the last chat. I was much to tired to be much good in an official manner.

But 40j's comment brings up another thread topic. What are we going to do when our scientific world shoots off into the future and leaves us with many unexpected and unplanned for decisions.

 

[Falcon02]

I agree with 40J too.

 

[Octavian X]

I will say that I don't really care about length as long as:
1. No major decisions need to be made.
2. The approiriate saves are posted as requried by the CoS. That is, a preturn, one every 5 turns, and the final. In a 15 turn chat, 4 saves would need to be posted.

 

[chiefpaco]

I'm happy with how our latest DPs have handled things. 10-15 seems like an appropriate number to me as a rough maximum. The only thing that was slightly awkward for me in the past was when an odd number of turns was completed. Deals then expired midway through the next TC. It was always most convenient when we stuck to 10 exactly.