Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 15
Discussion Thread: (2-15) Proposal: Logging Camps merged with Lumber Camps
Proposer: @Stalker0
Sponsor: @azum4roll
Proposal Details
Proposal:
Rationale: For a long time, logging camps have been the red-headed stepchildren of improvements, and there have been several attempts to improve them, including the original proposal for this segment.
However, I think there is a simpler answer....we don't need a logging camp. It doesn't provide anything interesting, its not really thematic (in fact people have often been confused as to why you can't build a lumber mill in jungle). For the most part, logging camps and lumber mills do the same thing....except logging does it later and lamer. So why not just merge the two and be done with it.
This also has the added benefit of making lumber mill triangles a bit easier to do (in places where forest and jungle meet).
EDITED: Updated language to clarify proposal, no fundamental changes.
VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 15a
Discussion Thread: (2-15a) Counterproposal: Merge logging camps with lumber mills
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @azum4roll
Proposal Details
1. Remove logging camp, lumber mills now buildable on both forests and jungles
2. They keep the same base yields as they are now (+1
on forest, +1 
on jungle)
3. Adjacency bonus buffed to +1 +1 per two adjacent lumber mills (as they're the same improvement, they can get adjacency bonus with each other)
4. Lumber mills get +1 +1 (currently +2 ) at Metallurgy, +1 +1 (currently +2 ) at Combustion. Policy and building bonuses stay the same (those don't distinguish between lumber mill and logging camp to begin with)
5. Workshop only gives +1 to forests (+1 removed), but gives 1 production per 4 
(up from per 10)
Rationale:
1. Jungles are worse than forests to begin with, and logging camp vs lumber mill further augments that. This will keep them roughly on the same pace (3 on forest vs 1 
1 1 
on jungle with the respective booster building built)
2. Mixed adjacency now works without extra code. You would no longer be disappointed at the 1 forest 2 jungle triangle.
3. Overall lumber mills are stronger with adjacency but weaker without compared to now. This encourages tactical improvement.
4. Workshop loses the gold on forest to keep the forest/jungle balance. The population scaler is bumped up to compensate (it's trash right now).
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 15
Discussion Thread: (2-15) Proposal: Logging Camps merged with Lumber Camps
Proposer: @Stalker0
Sponsor: @azum4roll
Proposal Details
Proposal:
- Remove the logging camp from the game. Any bonus specific to the logging camp is removed.
- Lumber mills will now be buildable as the same tech time they are now, but be buildable on both jungles and forests. The lumber mill will produce the same yield benefits it does now, and this benefit will apply to both terrains.
- Lumber mills on both a forest and jungle will count each other for the purpose of adjacency.
- Bonuses that specifically affect jungles themselves (such as university bonuses) are unchanged.
Rationale: For a long time, logging camps have been the red-headed stepchildren of improvements, and there have been several attempts to improve them, including the original proposal for this segment.
However, I think there is a simpler answer....we don't need a logging camp. It doesn't provide anything interesting, its not really thematic (in fact people have often been confused as to why you can't build a lumber mill in jungle). For the most part, logging camps and lumber mills do the same thing....except logging does it later and lamer. So why not just merge the two and be done with it.
This also has the added benefit of making lumber mill triangles a bit easier to do (in places where forest and jungle meet).
EDITED: Updated language to clarify proposal, no fundamental changes.
VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 15a
Discussion Thread: (2-15a) Counterproposal: Merge logging camps with lumber mills
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @azum4roll
Proposal Details
1. Remove logging camp, lumber mills now buildable on both forests and jungles
2. They keep the same base yields as they are now (+1
on forest, +1 on jungle)3. Adjacency bonus buffed to +1
+1 per two adjacent lumber mills (as they're the same improvement, they can get adjacency bonus with each other)4. Lumber mills get +1
+1 (currently +2 ) at Metallurgy, +1 +1 (currently +2 ) at Combustion. Policy and building bonuses stay the same (those don't distinguish between lumber mill and logging camp to begin with)5. Workshop only gives +1
to forests (+1 removed), but gives 1 production per 4 (up from per 10)Rationale:
1. Jungles are worse than forests to begin with, and logging camp vs lumber mill further augments that. This will keep them roughly on the same pace (3
on forest vs 1 1 1 on jungle with the respective booster building built)2. Mixed adjacency now works without extra code. You would no longer be disappointed at the 1 forest 2 jungle triangle.
3. Overall lumber mills are stronger with adjacency but weaker without compared to now. This encourages tactical improvement.
4. Workshop loses the gold on forest to keep the forest/jungle balance. The population scaler is bumped up to compensate (it's trash right now).
