2011 MLB Thread
- Thread starter El Justo
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Strider
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Looks like La Russa is a genius for this one. After a two hour rain delay Volquez (Reds starting pitcher) who didn't pitch to a single batter is out because he warmed up. Bastista, the cardinals reliever who 'started' the game is also out, but La Russa just put our actual starter into the game to pitch. Now the Reds have to go straight to their bullpen.
Lambert Simnel
One across
clever, probably. Not quite sure it's genius. And it also smacks a bit of gamesmanship to me, though I may be wrong.
So Mitchell Boggs as closer, eh ? Well, at the moment, I'd settle for anyone who isn't Franklin.
So Mitchell Boggs as closer, eh ? Well, at the moment, I'd settle for anyone who isn't Franklin.
El Justo
Deity
i had mcclellan going in my fantasy league, too. espn likes to say that larussa thinks he's smarter than everyone else. but he kept his rotation intact. and rainy aprils can make a mgr shuffle a lot. so maybe larussa is smarter i had do do a double-take when i saw mcclellan's line. no quality start? i thought i was misreading it.
Tony LaRussa is a baseball mastermind. Dude invented the closer role. He also has the greatest pattern baldness ever. Ever.
El Justo
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nice. me and the boys still talk about the Tony Larussa Baseball game for the sega that game was awesome.
that game was awesome.
Lambert Simnel
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For what it's worth, and coming in from outside, I'm not totally convinced by the closer role. I prefer the old idea of a fireman - bring your best stopper in when there are men on base and the game is about to slip away from you, even if that's the 7th or 8th inning.
Sure, a single run lead in the 9th potentially qualifies as such a situation without waiting for someone to get on base, and equally there may be ace pitchers whose effectiveness decreases so markedly when faced with men on base that they would be best deployed in the LaRussa closer role. But for the most part, if the key moment in the game is in the 7th or 8th or 9th, then I want to throw in my guy who is the best at getting the next one, two or three outs: I don't save him for after the game is lost or when the emergency has been dealt with by a lesser guy.
Scratch
ça ne fait rien
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Closers? Maybe those setup men are more important.
Lambert Simnel
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Like, exactly. That's exactly what I'm on about.
Yeah but Setup men don't get reality TV shows.
El Justo
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almost makes me like the giants love that beard though. i enjoy those silly commercials with wilson. he so reminds me of a dude i grew up with 130 pitches, 14 Ks for Doc. he's alien, i swear
Strider
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I was kind of hoping that we'd just go into the "closer by committee" role, but I guess I should have expected that La Russa would find a single pitcher to do it. We do have La Russa to thank for pretty much the creation of the closer role as we know it. I kind of prefer the use of your best reliever as a rally-stopper rather than someone you wait until the 9th inning to punch into the game.
Lambert Simnel
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Yep.
There's a line in the Wiki article on Closers which reads "Former Baltimore Orioles manager Johnny Oates once told Jerome Holtzman, the inventor of the save statistic, that he created the ninth-inning pitcher by inventing the save."
To a certain extent, the save stat becomes the measure of the top relievers, and forces the top notch relief man to want to play only (mainly?) in save situations. If you're likely to keep 94-95% of your 9th inning leads anyway, then why not forego having an elite, big dollar closer on your staff, have a couple of fairly decent men, close by committee (based on L/R match-ups etc), and use the money elsewhere on the roster ?
Not an issue for the Yankees, obviously, but a possibility for other teams - which is maybe why closers are quite mobile between clubs, as El J pointed out previously.
PS None of the above explains Ryan Franklin, however, unless he just got unlucky (in baseball, a genuine statistical variation in a player's performance is almost always explained by form / blowing hot or blowing cold, rather than just being the result of chance) or perhaps he's just not that good a pitcher anyway. I can't remember ever feeling comfortable with him closing, personally, so I guess I'm now suggesting the latter.
There's a line in the Wiki article on Closers which reads "Former Baltimore Orioles manager Johnny Oates once told Jerome Holtzman, the inventor of the save statistic, that he created the ninth-inning pitcher by inventing the save."
To a certain extent, the save stat becomes the measure of the top relievers, and forces the top notch relief man to want to play only (mainly?) in save situations. If you're likely to keep 94-95% of your 9th inning leads anyway, then why not forego having an elite, big dollar closer on your staff, have a couple of fairly decent men, close by committee (based on L/R match-ups etc), and use the money elsewhere on the roster ?
Not an issue for the Yankees, obviously, but a possibility for other teams - which is maybe why closers are quite mobile between clubs, as El J pointed out previously.
PS None of the above explains Ryan Franklin, however, unless he just got unlucky (in baseball, a genuine statistical variation in a player's performance is almost always explained by form / blowing hot or blowing cold, rather than just being the result of chance) or perhaps he's just not that good a pitcher anyway. I can't remember ever feeling comfortable with him closing, personally, so I guess I'm now suggesting the latter.
El Justo
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johnny oates claimed to have invented the closer? he was a funny man.
rollie fingers comes to mind as one of the first modern closers. bruce sutter too and goose gossage as well. jim konstanty comes to mind as the first real closer for the phils. he had 16 wins and 22 saves in one year (1950). impressive, even by today's standards. elroy face is another guy who pioneered the RP role.
here's proof that the save stat should in most instances be taken with the proverbial grain of salt: Jose Mesa is the all time saves leader for the phils Joe Table? what?!
he was a funny man. rollie fingers comes to mind as one of the first modern closers. bruce sutter too and goose gossage as well. jim konstanty comes to mind as the first real closer for the phils. he had 16 wins and 22 saves in one year (1950). impressive, even by today's standards. elroy face is another guy who pioneered the RP role.
here's proof that the save stat should in most instances be taken with the proverbial grain of salt: Jose Mesa is the all time saves leader for the phils
Joe Table? what?!
Strider
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I have a pretty good feeling that Franklin will end the year with an ERA below 4.00. The thing about Franklin is that his stuff never looked spectacular. He was solid, but not devastating. He never struck me as the "elite" reliever that normally fits into the closer role. That, in itself, is fine by me. As I said above I think your ace reliever should be used as a rally stopper in the 6-8 innings rather than saved until the 9th inning regardless of what happens. Although it's certainly a possibility that here is something wrong with him.
Scratch
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Halladay had a good start yesterday. So far the big 4 for Philly have compiled the following numbers -- 10-3, 2.75 ERA, 111.1 IP, 94 HA, 113 K, 23 BB.
The Phils' offense is struggling though.
Jose Contreras was placed on the DL.
About saves and bullpen usage, I've been playing a replay of the 1983 season on the computer and OOTP11 with the Wheeze Kids of Philly. I've been going generally with the concept of bringing in my best reliever available at critical times. As a result after 16 games, Al Holland has won 2, lost 1 and saved only 1 game so far.
The Phils' offense is struggling though.
Jose Contreras was placed on the DL.
About saves and bullpen usage, I've been playing a replay of the 1983 season on the computer and OOTP11 with the Wheeze Kids of Philly. I've been going generally with the concept of bringing in my best reliever available at critical times. As a result after 16 games, Al Holland has won 2, lost 1 and saved only 1 game so far.
El Justo
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awesome. i love that game. Al Holland was the man. nice one, Scratch 
It seems like the closer role is more mentality or comfort zone than stuff for a lot of teams. And good managers bring in the "closer" in tight spots like a tie game or the eighth inning with men on. Ideally I think a playoff caliber team must have both a shut down set up guy and a shut down closer. "Closer" is statistically not as important as the amount of money time and energy that teams and fans put into it but psychologically, it's a reality. Guys come into shut down games and for better or worse the modern game has developed this as a "position" separate from the rest.
Technically, you are looking for a pitcher with the same makeup for both roles: high K rate, low walk rate, lots of swings and misses.
Anecdotally all the closer by committee approaches I see are more auditions than actual committees. I think there is something to the idea of a pitcher, particularly a reliever, being comfortable in their role whether it is 8th inning or 9th inning.
Technically, you are looking for a pitcher with the same makeup for both roles: high K rate, low walk rate, lots of swings and misses.
Anecdotally all the closer by committee approaches I see are more auditions than actual committees. I think there is something to the idea of a pitcher, particularly a reliever, being comfortable in their role whether it is 8th inning or 9th inning.
Next series starts tuesday against KC, this time at home. But you are right, hopefully the day off will do them good.
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