2014 NFL Regular Season

[Sommerswerd]

Yeah all those... 2 interceptions. In 6 super bowls. Deeply flawed... come on man. I get you're a Niner fan but give me a break.

2 Interceptions in 6 Superbowls (source?) C'mon man what are you talking about? Flawed? How can you misquote/mis-cite stats and then call my reasoning flawed?

And on top of that you ALSO ignored the LOSSES, which are even more significant... But hey I like Brady too.

Remember, we are splitting hairs to argue GOAT versus 2nd GOAT. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do that without nitpicking, right?

 

[illram]

I checked and it was 4, not 2, so I edited my comment to reflect that. I agree it's a valid point.

I was quoting your deeply flawed comment not calling your reasoning flawed. Sorry.

 

[Sommerswerd]

No probs Its all love

 

[Sommerswerd]

Getting to the title game 6 times, throwing for more TD's than Montana, not having a necessarily dominant surrounding cast in his long long run as Patriot, compared to the Niner teams that I think on paper had an edge as far as personnel on both sides of the ball, and Brady also has the edge in longevity (Montana retired at 38, Brady is 37 and barring injury poised to finish his career at 40 when his contract is up, and Brady's title run far outlasted the span of time in which Montana went to his Super Bowls).

Now this is a really good case for Brady. However...

About the 6 SB appearances versus 4... Imagine Chef 1 (Montana) makes 4 soufflés in 9 hours, and all 4 turn out perfect (no falling, great flavor), and Chef 2 makes 6 soufflés in 15 hours but 2 of them fall/go flat (Brady's losses), and 2 of the 4 that don't fall, still don't taste that good (Brady's INTs in his wins). Who is the better Chef? Easy right? So when you say Brady has more SB TDs, its kinda like arguing that Chef 2 cracked more eggs... Sure he did, because he botched 2 (arguably 4) of his 6 soufflés. Point is that TD's in a loss don't mean as much, and INTs in a win tarnish the performance.

The "supporting cast" thing is a tough argument to wade into, because we are talking about SB teams here... I mean they are the best teams in the league. It's not like arguing for example, that Barry Sanders was better than Emmitt Smith but Smith had a better supporting cast. Are we seriously going to try and argue that one SB dynasty team has enough of a better supporting cast to make a difference in QB performance than another SB dynasty team? How do we even measure that?

Retirement age - First of all, its not the number years you play, but what you do in that time. Length of career is not as relevant to the issue of GOAT as achievements. As far as the span of the Brady dominance is concerned, I admit that is a good point. I will point out though that during that 15 year span of sporadic Brady SB appearances, Brady has had the SAME coach, same GM and the same owner. Montana on the other hand, through his 9 year span of 4 SB wins (and only wins) had 2 different coaches and 2 different General Managers as well as an Owner who was neither. So Brady has benefit of a tremendous amount of consistency behind him, and single-minded commitment to his success, which can easily explain his longevity and long-term dominance (and why, unlike Montana, Brady wasn't traded in his old age.)

 

[Darkness]

With just Lynch Seattle went to zero Superbowls. With Wilson they've now been to 2 in 3 years.

That right there indicates that the team is far better with Wilson and Lynch than it simply was with Lynch.

You do realize that this is a nonsense argument, don't you?

Wilson's arrival coincided with Seattle's defense rising to heights unmatched in the free agency era, so saying that Wilson's the reason that the Seahawks have gone to 2 superbowls in 3 years is just silly. It's a team game, not just a QB or RB game, and the Seahawks' defense was, IMHO, the main reason they were in the last 2 superbowls...

 

[Serutan]

This year it was the defense and the allergy Mike McCarthy has to playing to win...

 

[illram]

 

[Light Cleric]

Okay I like good trash talk but the emphasis is on good:

Spoiler :

^This is very interesting coming from LeGarette Blount whose list of accomplishments includes:

-Punching a teammate
-Getting pulled over for pot
-Quitting on the Steelers
-Almost having as good of a game against the Colts as Jonas Gray did
-Getting 40 yards on 14 carries in the game the guy he's mocking went for 102 yards on 24 touches.
-Being a general pain in the ass for every coach except Belichick which I guess makes him BB's B

 

[dgfred]

Yeah... it isn't like Lynch has been complaining.

Maybe if it was a '12th Man' shirt.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Okay I like good trash talk but the emphasis is on good:

Spoiler :

^This is very interesting coming from LeGarette Blount whose list of accomplishments includes:

-Punching a teammate
-Getting pulled over for pot
-Quitting on the Steelers
-Almost having as good of a game against the Colts as Jonas Gray did
-Getting 40 yards on 14 carries in the game the guy he's mocking went for 102 yards on 24 touches.
-Being a general pain in the ass for every coach except Belichick which I guess makes him BB's B

But wait, the Patriots are the model citizens of integrity and sportsmanship, aren't they?

 

[illram]

The crowd threw him the shirt I believe.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The crowd threw him the shirt I believe.

That would be no surprise, because Boston fans will never be accused of being models of integrity and sportsmanship, even sarcastically.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Philly fans are the worst hands down. When I lived in Philly I got to go to a bunch of Phillies and Eagles games and I remember one Colts v. Eagles game where a Colts player was seriously injured, like they were calling the cart to take him off the field and people in the stands were literally heckling the injured player. No joke

I distinctly remember one woman near me screaming "Let's go! Scrape em' off the field!" and another saying "C'mon get him off the field! Get on with the game!"

The worst part about it was I was sitting in the Colts-guest section that day because I was a guest of one of the Colts parents. So as these people are yelling at the injured player, his Mom could have literally been sitting right next to them, and they knew it. They didn't care... And that was pretty typical in Philly.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Philly fans are the worst hands down. When I lived in Philly I got to go to a bunch of Phillies and Eagles games and I remember one Colts v. Eagles game where a Colts player was seriously injured, like they were calling the cart to take him off the field and people in the stands were literally heckling the injured player. No joke

I distinctly remember one woman near me screaming "Let's go! Scrape em' off the field!" and another saying "C'mon get him off the field! Get on with the game!"

The worst part about it was I was sitting in the Colts-guest section that day because I was a guest of one of the Colts parents. So as these people are yelling at the injured player, his Mom could have literally been sitting right next to them, and they knew it. They didn't care... And that was pretty typical in Philly.

You are talking about fans who drove Santa Clause off the field in a hail of snowballs...I put nothing past them. Are they 'worse' than Boston fans? Hard to say.

 

[Commodore]

You are talking about fans who drove Santa Clause off the field in a hail of snowballs...I put nothing past them. Are they 'worse' than Boston fans? Hard to say.

You know there were some kids there as well so I want to know how those parents explained to their kids why it was okay to boo and throw snowballs at the man who brings presents and cheer to all the good kids in the world?

Bang up job on traumatizing your kids Philly!

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You know there were some kids there as well so I want to know how those parents explained to their kids why it was okay to boo and throw snowballs at the man who brings presents and cheer to all the good kids in the world?

Bang up job on traumatizing your kids Philly!

They just said "We've been good, and he brought us the Eagles. Let's try throwing snowballs at him." At the time that would have seemed reasonable.

 

[KMRblue1027]

You are talking about fans who drove Santa Clause off the field in a hail of snowballs...I put nothing past them. Are they 'worse' than Boston fans? Hard to say.

It was 40 god damn years ago...

 

[North King]

Not really sure where the hatred for Boston fans comes from. Football fans in general are rowdy; the worst thing that a Bostonian does is be insufferable about their team's success... which you could also say about the Seahawks, the 49ers, the Steelers, or the Ravens.

 

[dgfred]

Most 'other team' fans are obnoxious .

OT- My lady co-worker (who derserves some good luck) won the lottery yesterday-
1 MILLION!!!

I keep swinging between happiness for her (she is a nice person with alot of problems- health/credit/etc) and STAGGERING envy.

My brain is swirling even thinking about it... sitting across from a millionaire.

 

[Light Cleric]

The crowd threw him the shirt I believe.

Unless the shirt had a death threat attached to it demanding he hold it up I don't see how this changes anything at all.

Not really sure where the hatred for Boston fans comes from. Football fans in general are rowdy; the worst thing that a Bostonian does is be insufferable about their team's success... which you could also say about the Seahawks, the 49ers, the Steelers, or the Ravens.

I think it comes from the transition from "lovable losers" of the Red Sox going so long without winning a title to suddenly winning three since '04 and there's been some...obnoxious people as a result. We love losers until they start winning and then stop being so lovable when the newer fans latch on. I've noticed fans that were around for the crap days of their teams that went from crap-to-good usually still have a good bit of humility.

And to be fair, a decent chunk of their problem isn't Boston fans but bandwagon Red Sox fans cropping up all over the country as "Sox Nation" despite having no connection whatsoever to Boston themselves and having a team nearby and the "Pink Sox" stereotype. It's kind of like the douchebag celebrities who have magically switched from Lakers fans to Clippers fans and spend games texting on their phone at courtside instead of watching the game.

That said, I don't think Boston fans are the "worst" or that there even is a "worst". I've heard and dealt with things from every fan base imaginable. The Red Sox/Boston fans I discussed. The Seahawks fans who argued that a play in football can't be illegal because illegal means against the law(I didn't ask if they think players who commit an illegal shift get arrested). The Eagles fans doing stuff like Sommersword mentioned and the horrendous greetings given to their former players on their return. It's also hard to quantify, like the study I remember that labeled Saints fans as awful/fair-weather because of an analysis of the last 10 years which basically glossed over that whole, you know, "Hurricane Katrina" thing happening and possibly affecting people's ability to go to sporting events etc. None of these are fair to use against another fan.

There's crappy fans but it's hard to label a whole fan base as crappy(except a certain basketball team whose fans repeatedly leave playoff games early). The thing I like best is how the best stories I've heard over the years about "crappy fans" have been from fans about other fans of the same team.

That whole might sound like a whole lot of words to say nothing, sorry. I ended up rambling because I'm on my phone at the vet