2K and Firaxis

[Kolbeg]

What is your impression of Civilization´s corporate umbrella; SidMeier, Firaxis and 2K?

In my mind they are sitting on a gold mine, able to close off in their Ivory Tower and just release products on a regular basis. This market is theirs as it stands.

Due to this I feel like they are super distant, they don´t have to interact with their costumers and just go about their business the way they like. The content they send out during their development process is unbelievably poor and there seems to be no conversation with the fans. Just very rehearsed and planed interviews with little very limited value.

I don´t doubt the talent in the young guys working on BE, but it feels to me like they are working in an environment that is super conservative and "old fashion" in its approach to its fan base and production methods. Feels like a factory production of entertainment packages.

I´ve loved Civilization since the beginning, but I think that the hype regarding Sid himself might be an overkill. What has he actually done so great, he and his company has been sitting lazy and dispassionate in their bubble, because of a lack of competition.

They do an okey job usually, but the vibe I get from the company as a whole is just so unappealing and boring. Feels like they are always doing as little as possible. Just to be able keep their jobs, living on old glory and little competition.

Well that is it for my rant, cant wait for BE to come out!

 

[stealth_nsk]

Civilization is niche product, even if the niche is quite large. XCOM is good, but it shares too much of its audience with Civilization. Adding more games to the same niche will not improve income significantly, they'll compete with each other.

The biggest modern titles are story-driven actions. XCOM has the best story from Firaxis games, but it's lacking compared to action titles.

 

[Camikaze]

I think it's a little odd to suggest that they don't have much dialogue with fans, given each Civ title in recent years features quite a number of those fans in the credits.

 

[Lancor]

For better or worse they remind me much of Blizzard. But tbh I always had the impression they are more open to fan input.

 

[Kolbeg]

For better or worse they remind me much of Blizzard. But tbh I always had the impression they are more open to fan input.

Having played a lot of Blizzard games they do definitely not resemble one another. Both companies have their aging management and "heroes" but I feel like Blizzard has had to evolve with its more mainstream consumers.

You might not like all the decisions that they make but just take a look at their ongoing conversation with the community every single day. Also they regularly discuss their ideas and future plans.

This is what I mostly miss from the BE team, more conversation and information about their decisions and vision. A more lively and vibrant approach, not just a few sneak peaks and then a final product. Games and game development should be more of am ongoing process an evolution if you like, that does not just end when the game is released.

 

[ColdFever]

Civilization is niche product, even if the niche is quite large. XCOM is good, but it shares too much of its audience with Civilization.

I think it was very smart of Firaxis to build XCOM for the Civilization audience. Civilization may be a "niche product" compared to shooters like GTA, but it is a heawyweight among strategy games, selling millions of copies of each title. If Firaxis is able to build another strategy franchise that is also selling millions of copies of each title to Civ fans, as XCOM did, they achieve more than most studios do. The only gripe I have about XCom is that the seriousness of XCOM:EU has been replaced with comic-like exaggeration in XCOM:EW. Most Civ players I know did not like the comic-like period in Civ and so did not like it in XCom:EW. I wonder which path Firaxis will take with the next XCom, but I have a good feeling about CivBE, that also looks like a serious game again (as SMAC was one).

 

[SupremacyKing]

This is what I mostly miss from the BE team, more conversation and information about their decisions and vision. A more lively and vibrant approach, not just a few sneak peaks and then a final product.

I think your point is unfair. We've gotten several interviews (written and video) with the devs about some of their design decisions and visions (why maps look earth like, comparison with SMAC, etc). We've also gotten several gameplay videos (E3 and Gamescom), a 1 hour long gameplay with Pete Murray himself (and he's promised to do more such videos in the very near future), screenshots, and background info on most of the faction leaders. So, I would definitely call that more than just a "few sneak peaks". Furthermore, we are still 2 months away from the release date so there is still plenty of time for more info. In fact, I am pretty sure that Firaxis and 2K will really ramp up the marketing for the game as we get closer to release date.

 

[Randall_Flagg]

I would not Trust Sid or his company for any reason. I bought Railroads, Civ 4 Colonization and was here for CiV 5 release.

They have done nothing to suggest they deserve any trust for years. Now, I am not like the OP, I would much prefer they sit in an ivory tower and make fun games. Since the so called fans have been part of development, we gamers have gotten the shaft by getting crappy products.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Having played a lot of Blizzard games they do definitely not resemble one another. Both companies have their aging management and "heroes" but I feel like Blizzard has had to evolve with its more mainstream consumers.



You might not like all the decisions that they make but just take a look at their ongoing conversation with the community every single day. Also they regularly discuss their ideas and future plans.



This is what I mostly miss from the BE team, more conversation and information about their decisions and vision. A more lively and vibrant approach, not just a few sneak peaks and then a final product. Games and game development should be more of am ongoing process an evolution if you like, that does not just end when the game is released.

I think the BE team is fairly approachable and conversant. You just have to know the right venue. I've tweeted Will Miller a couple of times and he responded well both times. Pete Murray and Kevin the marketing guy both respond well on Twitter as well.

Now, I do wonder whatever happened to Kate Distler. I haven't seen much from her in the past few months. I suspect that 2K reorganized their marketing staff and she has a different role now.

 

[gunther_nt]

Firaxis is one of the last standing mastodons. If the "modern fashion" gets you into terrible ways and means, then "old fashion" is a good way to keep yourself respectful and stay clean.

Almost all new gamedev philosophies are a huge degrade and I can call it gamepunk: high-marketing/low-producing nonsence.

Firaxis are oldschool in what is a proven model but are pioneers in what lacks a good realization today. They dont invent bicycles. The don't mess with things I hate: early access, free-to-play, multiplatform, release-day patches, their dlc are additions, not parts of the core completed game sold to you separately. Yes, they have to do dirty things like pre-ordering and day 0 DLC (Map pack) but they are a part of the swamp called "modern day videogame industry" and so I can forgive sertain acts. Their feedback and marketing are enough to keep expectations on a reasonable level. I am tired of lying devs putting more resources in marketing, then in the game itself. Projects with marketing hurricane pressure usually become too overestimated by warmed-up audience and get low results due to very high expectations.

Like Valve and Blizzard (some time ago I could say "and Creative Assembly") they base their business on old-fashion principles like "we create a whole, completed art form as we see it", "it will be avaliable when ready" and "perfecting the niche".

 

[stealth_nsk]

I think it was very smart of Firaxis to build XCOM for the Civilization audience. Civilization may be a "niche product" compared to shooters like GTA, but it is a heawyweight among strategy games, selling millions of copies of each title. If Firaxis is able to build another strategy franchise that is also selling millions of copies of each title to Civ fans, as XCOM did, they achieve more than most studios do.

Do you understand they get the hole audience of turn-based games? They sell millions of copies, but they can't sell more. Surely, XCOM caught some new audience, including console players who like challenge, but it's not too big.

If Firaxis is going to sell more games, they have to expand their genres. I would be happy to see some really tactical RPG (compared to pseudo-tactical Dragon Age) using XCOM-like gameplay, etc.

The only gripe I have about XCom is that the seriousness of XCOM:EU has been replaced with comic-like exaggeration in XCOM:EW. Most Civ players I know did not like the comic-like period in Civ and so did not like it in XCom:EW. I wonder which path Firaxis will take with the next XCom, but I have a good feeling about CivBE, that also looks like a serious game again (as SMAC was one).

Well, most of Civ fans (and XCOM fans) I know care about balance and strategical choices more than things like "comic-like exaggeration". I really don't care about it too. I care about too strong Mimetic skin in XCOM:EW, about too much focus on tall empires in BNW, etc.

 

[Lord Shadow]

I would not Trust Sid or his company for any reason. I bought Railroads, Civ 4 Colonization and was here for CiV 5 release.

Seems you were not around for the Civ5 expansions or XCOM:EU.

Anyway, Firaxis works the way large game companies work, and I respect them as they're one of the veteran figures of the industry and generally deliver quality products. I don't particularly think they sit in their ivory tower, isolated from the world, and they're fairly approachable as far as big companies go (i.e. via Twitter). Now, if their reveals are very measured and almost rehearsed, that's part for the course of the hype machine, which is necessary to maintain interest in their games all the way till release.

 

[bhavv]

If they were listening to their fans, where's the next railroad tycoon game?

 

[Lord Shadow]

If they were listening to their fans, where's the next railroad tycoon game?

No, no, no. Railroad Tycoon had its chance with Railroads. Now where's the Sword of the Samurai remake? That game was gold.

Spoiler :

 

[Randall_Flagg]

Seems you were not around for the Civ5 expansions or XCOM:EU.

Anyway, Firaxis works the way large game companies work, and I respect them as they're one of the veteran figures of the industry and generally deliver quality products. I don't particularly think they sit in their ivory tower, isolated from the world, and they're fairly approachable as far as big companies go (i.e. via Twitter). Now, if their reveals are very measured and almost rehearsed, that's part for the course of the hype machine, which is necessary to maintain interest in their games all the way till release.

You are mistaken, I own all Civ Expansions, for every version. You got me on X-Com, I would not buy that crap with your money.

 

[Matthew.]

I'd never compare them to Blizzard. I can sort of see the parallels. Both are older companies still trying to survive off the tested products, but Blizzard went the Activision route. WoW evolved into a money shop game with 25+ dollar mounts and level 90 character boosts. Hearthstone is an exact copy/paste of the numerous f2p phone/tablet games which are designed to milk money. They attempted the BS experiment of RMAH in Diablo 3, which fortunately blew up in their face. The only reason why SC2 is relatively comparable to their older games is because it has a fairly strong grip on e-sports, which is its own additional revenue.

No, they are completely focused on the $$$ attempting to come up with new ways to screw over gamers. I just don't see that with Firaxis/2K. Sure, they've tried DLC but said they weren't happy with the results and preferred actual expansions (time will tell whether they stick to that philosophy in the future). And sure, some fans aren't exactly happy with some of their products. But they are definitely NOT on the same level as Blizzard when trying to leech money any way they can.

I also never did care for the phrase "listen to fans". There is nothing wrong with the general idea of it. After all, the fans dump hundreds upon hundreds of hours into the game and can often see things that devs miss. But that phrase has fed the whole entitlement problem in gaming, with everyone using it as attempted justification to try and tailor a game to their own personal needs.

The fact is, people have different likes and interests. You cannot tailor a game to please every fan. I'd even argue that attempting to do so to appease the lowest common denominator is not a good route either, as that results in the same generic, washed down crap that plagues the movie/music industry.

And there is my rant I can see the point of Firaxis/2K perhaps getting a bit stale with ideas, that some innovation and competition may be good, but there are far FAR worse examples in the gaming industry.

 

[bhavv]

The sad thing about WoW is that it ended up with both a monthly fee and a cash store. Usually developers use the latter as an alternative to fees, and a few have very fair cosmetic only transactions like GW and PoE. WoW was already making loads of money from its millions of subs, and Blizzard were rolling in money, but then they still added in a cash store.

And also they have all that money made from WoW, and yet they managed to royally screw up Diablo 3.

 

[zerokarma]

I think they listen to their fans to a certain point, otherwise they would not even be making Beyond Earth.

That said I think for some things they are set in their ways and won't deviate from what they want to do.

 

[rkade8583]

XCOM's problem is nobody official is patching it. Civ 5, more or less, doesn't need to be patched now that we've got all the expacs out.

I'm hoping that since BE is using the Civ 5 engine, there won't be too many hiccups and what hiccups are there are small.

 

[mitsho]

I don't see "non-communicative"*, I do see old-fashioned.

*(yes, they appear more when there's a game to hype about, but they've never vanished completely and they do deliver a "finishing" patch usually)

But old-fashioned sure hits. That is probably also due to the 'legacy' of the game series of civ. I mean if they'd made a radical reinvention, it wouldn't be civ anymore. So they struggle to keep the familiarity (it sells after all) while doing new things. Nevertheless, I think they could profit from a zero start for a lot of things, but then I'm neither a coder nor a business man.

It's a shame though that there doesn't seem to be another "breakout" competitor for strategy games. (or maybe there is, I just haven't found one I like )

As a negative example similar to what Blizzard has become, but Firaxis hasn't would be BlueByte with its Settlers. That was one of my favourites from childhood with its gorgeous feel of something happening and complex economies. Now look at The Settlers Online (or their new game Settlers: Kingdom of Anteria) which is a plain always online pay-to-win abomination without anything you could call customer service or information.

On that note Firaxis may really fare better with announcing less but then not having to go back on their promises