300

[History_Buff]

Well, having never seen the comic, I don't know how closely it follows the source. All I was saying is that the moral of the story isn't "America Rocks"

 

[Prince_Imrahil]

You mean Sparta isnt america and those corrupt temple guys aren't the UN who didnt bless a war that becomes unlawful and Leonidas going at it alone with 300 spartans is not a reference to Bush going at it alone in Iraq and the accusations of Leonidas being a warmonger isnt reference to what the liberals call Bush and when they talk about freedom its not THE AMERICAN VALUE THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT?!? speechless!

but seriouslessly, anyone who wants to read into it how they want to, go ahead, ruin it for yourself or see things how you want to. Doesn't change the fact that, for what it was, a comic book based movie based on an actual historical event, it was an awesome kick-ass action movie.

The political message? Spartans kick ass.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Seeing as how Frank Miller's graphic novel came out in 1998, I can't see why anyone should think that the movie is trying to say anything about the current events in the Middle East.

I agree. It says something not so much about any political situation or current event as Frank Miller's Riefenstahlian, muscleman-worshiping tendencies.

Every third line in that movie is some Spartan dissing on Athens. I didn't stay for the credits, but they must have looked like "Spartan with Six-Pack #1, Spartan with Six-Pack #2,.... Weenie Athenian #1, Weenie Athenian #2...."

Seriously, anyone who would rather our society be a Sparta than an Athens is a protofascist. (not that fascism or totalitarianism were intelligible political concepts back then, but that's what Spartanism adds up to in the modern context).

The movie would not be nearly as good or intresting if it followed history strictly. Very few movies do this.

Omissions from history are ok. Reinventing characters we know little about, again, ok. I loved the sequences that described Leonidas' childhood. Changing history to allow for narrative (like creating the character of the blinded Spartan who lived to tell the tale) is fine.

The problem is DISTORTING history.

The movie makes out the Spartans to be the sole heroes of the Greek-Persian wars & saviors of Greece when in fact Thermopylae did not stop the Persian advance, and did not stop Xerxes from sacking Athens. What it did (very ironically in light of the movie dialogue) is slow down the Persians enough so that a mostly Athenian fleet under the command of an Athenian general could amass and defeat the Persians at Salamis, after which Xerxes abandoned the campaign. The remaining Persian forces were defeated a year later at Plataea, the battle shown at the very end of the movie.

The scene where Leonidas condemns the Athenian and Thespian soldiers, or the voiceover that mocks them as they battle, or the various allusions to Athens being effete and defenseless without Sparta's begrudging aid, are all bullcrap.

 

[CaptainF]

My friend saw it last friday, and thought it was awesome.

I might check it out.

 

[MjM]

I agree. It says something not so much about any political situation or current event as Frank Miller's Riefenstahlian, muscleman-worshiping tendencies.

Every third line in that movie is some Spartan dissing on Athens. I didn't stay for the credits, but they must have looked like "Spartan with Six-Pack #1, Spartan with Six-Pack #2,.... Weenie Athenian #1, Weenie Athenian #2...."

Seriously, anyone who would rather our society be a Sparta than an Athens is a protofascist. (not that fascism or totalitarianism were intelligible political concepts back then, but that's what Spartanism adds up to in the modern context).



Omissions from history are ok. Reinventing characters we know little about, again, ok. I loved the sequences that described Leonidas' childhood. Changing history to allow for narrative (like creating the character of the blinded Spartan who lived to tell the tale) is fine.

The problem is DISTORTING history.

The movie makes out the Spartans to be the sole heroes of the Greek-Persian wars & saviors of Greece when in fact Thermopylae did not stop the Persian advance, and did not stop Xerxes from sacking Athens. What it did (very ironically in light of the movie dialogue) is slow down the Persians enough so that a mostly Athenian fleet under the command of an Athenian general could amass and defeat the Persians at Salamis, after which Xerxes abandoned the campaign. The remaining Persian forces were defeated a year later at Plataea, the battle shown at the very end of the movie.

The scene where Leonidas condemns the Athenian and Thespian soldiers, or the voiceover that mocks them as they battle, or the various allusions to Athens being effete and defenseless without Sparta's begrudging aid, are all bullcrap.

The Spartans in the movie barely dissed Athens at all. In fact, only 2 or so times are coming to me right now in my head. And, in fact, the battle of Thermopylae was critical in the Greek success against the Persians throughout the whole war. And the Spartans were almost the sole fighters in that battle, plus a few hundred Thespians who stayed with the Spartans.

Now, the sole-heroes of the war they wern't but heroes they were still.

 

[Taliesin]

I should clarify my earlier remark-- I don't mean to suggest that the movie is designed with an Iranian war in mind. I observe merely that the movie presents and distorts history in order to promote and glorify a very particular value system that I think is harmful, and that its message could cause even more damage because of the unfortunate Persia/Iran coincidence.

 

[ArmorPierce]

The Spartans in the movie barely dissed Athens at all. In fact, only 2 or so times are coming to me right now in my head. And, in fact, the battle of Thermopylae was critical in the Greek success against the Persians throughout the whole war. And the Spartans were almost the sole fighters in that battle, plus a few hundred Thespians who stayed with the Spartans.

Now, the sole-heroes of the war they wern't but heroes they were still.

The Spartans were not almost the sole fighters, the Thespians who stayed to fight numbered more than three times than the amount of Spartans there.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

And the Spartans were almost the sole fighters in that battle, plus a few hundred Thespians who stayed with the Spartans.

Actually, Herodotus sez there were 1000 soldiers at the last stand: the 300 Spartans, plus 700 of the same Thespians who are the butt of homoerotic jokes in the film.

heroes they were still.

Not denying that! They were the most feared fighters on land for a reason.

 

[MjM]

Actually, Herodotus sez there were 1000 soldiers at the last stand: the 300 Spartans, plus 700 of the same Thespians who are the butt of homoerotic jokes in the film.

Not denying that! They were the most feared fighters on land for a reason.

I don't remember too many jokes about them, the only one I remember was when Leonidas called the Athenians boy-lovers...

The Spartans were not almost the sole fighters, the Thespians who stayed to fight numbered more than three times than the amount of Spartans there.

Yes, but who do you think killed more Persians and was the center of the phalanx?

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

For the record, here is Herodotus's account, with the excerpts that relate to the movie:

202. The Greeks who at this spot awaited the coming of Xerxes were the following: - From Sparta, three hundred men-at-arms: from Arcadia, a thousand...; a hundred and twenty Orchomenians, from the Arcadian Orchomenus; and a thousand from other cities: from Corinth, four hundred men: from Phlius, two hundred: and from Mycenae eighty. Such was the number from the Peloponnese. There were also present, from Boeotia, seven hundred Thespians and four hundred Thebans.

203. Besides these troops, the Locrians of Opus and the Phocians had obeyed the call of their countrymen, and sent, the former all the force they had, the latter a thousand men....

204. The various nations had each captains of their own under whom they served; but the one to whom all especially looked up, and who had the command of the entire force, was the Lacedaemonian [Spartan], Leonidas.

He had now come to Thermopylae, accompanied by the three hundred men which the law assigned him, whom he had himself chosen from among the citizens, and who were all of them fathers with sons living...

206. The force with Leonidas was sent forward by the Spartans in advance of their main body, that the sight of them might encourage the allies to fight, and hinder them from going over to the Medes [the Persians], as it was likely they might have done had they seen that Sparta was backward. They intended presently, when they had celebrated the Carneian festival, which was what now kept them at home, to leave a garrison in Sparta, and hasten in full force to join the army. The rest of the allies also intended to act similarly; for it happened that the Olympic festival fell exactly at this same period. None of them looked to see the contest at Thermopylae decided so speedily; wherefore they were content to send forward a mere advanced guard. Such accordingly were the intentions of the allies.

...

210... Four whole days he [Xerxes] suffered to go by, expecting that the Greeks would run away. When, however, he found on the fifth that they were not gone, thinking that their firm stand was mere impudence and recklessness, he grew wroth, and sent against them the Medes and Cissians, with orders to take them alive and bring them into his presence. Then the Medes rushed forward and charged the Greeks, but fell in vast numbers...

211. Then the Medes... withdrew from the fight; and their place was taken by the band of Persians under Hydarnes, whom the king called his "Immortals: " they, it was thought, would soon finish the business. But when they joined battle with the Greeks, 'twas with no better success than the Median detachment.... The Lacedaemonians fought in a way worthy of note, and showed themselves far more skilful in fight than their adversaries, often turning their backs, and making as though they were all flying away, on which the barbarians would rush after them with much noise and shouting, when the Spartans at their approach would wheel round and face their pursuers, in this way destroying vast numbers of the enemy. Some Spartans likewise fell in these encounters, but only a very few. At last the Persians, finding that all their efforts to gain the pass availed nothing, and that, whether they attacked by divisions or in any other way, it was to no purpose, withdrew...

...Next day the combat was renewed, but with no better success on the part of the barbarians. The Greeks were so few that the barbarians hoped to find them disabled, by reason of their wounds, from offering any further resistance; and so they once more attacked them. But the Greeks were drawn up in detachments according to their cities, and bore the brunt of the battle in turns, - all except the Phocians, who had been stationed on the mountain to guard the pathway. So, when the Persians found no difference between that day and the preceding, they again retired...

Now, as the king was in a great strait, and knew not how he should deal with the emergency, Ephialtes, the son of Eurydemus, a man of Malis, came to him and was admitted to a conference. Stirred by the hope of receiving a rich reward at the king's hands, he had come to tell him of the pathway which led across the mountain to Thermopylae; by which disclosure he brought destruction on the band of Greeks who had there withstood the barbarians...

217. The Persians took this path... Now the hill was guarded, as I have already said, by a thousand Phocian men-at-arms... the Phocians jumped up and flew to seize their arms. In a moment the barbarians came in sight, and, perceiving men arming themselves, were greatly amazed; for they had fallen in with an enemy when they expected no opposition. Hydarnes, alarmed at the sight, and fearing lest the Phocians might be Lacedaemonians, inquired of Ephialtes to what nation these troops belonged. Ephialtes told him the exact truth, whereupon he arrayed his Persians for battle. The Phocians, galled by the showers of arrows to which they were exposed, and imagining themselves the special object of the Persian attack, fled hastily to the crest of the mountain... but while their mistake continued, the Persians, with Ephialtes and Hydarnes, not thinking it worth their while to delay on account of Phocians, passed on and descended the mountain with all possible speed.

...Then the Greeks held a council to consider what they should do, and here opinions were divided: some were strong against quitting their post, while others contended to the contrary. So when the council had broken up, part of the troops departed and went their ways homeward to their several states; part however resolved to remain, and to stand by Leonidas to the last.

220. It is said that Leonidas himself sent away the troops who departed, because he tendered their safety, but thought it unseemly that either he or his Spartans should quit the post which they had been especially sent to guard. For my own part, I incline to think that Leonidas gave the order, because he perceived the allies to be out of heart and unwilling to encounter the danger to which his own mind was made up. He therefore commanded them to retreat, but said that he himself could not draw back with honour; knowing that, if he stayed, glory awaited him, and that Sparta in that case would not lose her prosperity. For when the Spartans, at the very beginning of the war, sent to consult the oracle concerning it, the answer which they received from the Pythoness was, "that either Sparta must be overthrown by the barbarians, or one of her kings must perish."

222. So the allies, when Leonidas ordered them to retire, obeyed him and forthwith departed. Only the Thespians and the Thebans remained with the Spartans... The Thespians... stayed entirely of their own accord, refusing to retreat, and declaring that they would not forsake Leonidas and his followers. So they abode with the Spartans, and died with them. Their leader was Demophilus, the son of Diadromes.

223. At sunrise Xerxes... began his advance ...the Greeks under Leonidas, as they now went forth determined to die, advanced much further than on previous days... and carried slaughter among the barbarians, who fell in heaps. Behind them the captains of the squadrons, armed with whips, urged their men forward with continual blows. Many were thrust into the sea, and there perished... For the Greeks, reckless of their own safety and desperate, since they knew that, as the mountain had been crossed, their destruction was nigh at hand, exerted themselves with the most furious valour against the barbarians.

...here, as they strove, Leonidas fell fighting bravely, together with many other famous Spartans... There fell too at the same time very many famous Persians...

...And now there arose a fierce struggle between the Persians and the Lacedaemonians over the body of Leonidas, in which the Greeks four times drove back the enemy, and at last by their great bravery succeeded in bearing off the body.

...This combat was scarcely ended when the Persians with Ephialtes approached; and the Greeks, informed that they drew nigh... drew back into the narrowest part of the pass... Here they defended themselves to the last, such as still had swords using them, and the others resisting with their hands and teeth; till the barbarians... overwhelmed and buried the remnant which was left beneath showers of missile weapons.

Thus nobly did the whole body of Lacedaemonians and Thespians behave; but nevertheless one man is said to have distinguished himself above all the rest, to wit, Dieneces the Spartan... One of the Trachinians told him, "Such was the number of the barbarians, that when they shot forth their arrows the sun would be darkened by their multitude." Dieneces, not at all frightened at these words, but making light of the Median numbers, answered, "Our Trachinian friend brings us excellent tidings. If the Medes darken the sun, we shall have our fight in the shade." Other sayings too of a like nature are reported to have been left on record by this same person.

234. Thus fought the Greeks at Thermopylae.

 

[JonnyB]

It was a very entertaining movie, and looked amazing on screen. I don't care about historical inaccuracies because this wasn't a docudrama. It was a film, based on a comic book, which was inspired by historical events. It's fantasy, just enjoy it for what it is.

Spoiler :

Regarding the spear cutting Xerxes, Leonidas told Xerxes when they met that he should wound him to show his slaves that even a "living god" bleeds. The attempt was to make Xerxes's men less fearful of him and more afraid of the Spartans.

 

[Luckymoose]

It wasn't really that distorted. Just watch it. The combat was not distorted as much as you think. They didn't just run and gun through the Persian army. The Elephants were pretty big though. The mutated people were very common back then thanks to inbreeding. So that is possible. Figure in that everyone was a lot shorter back then, someone 7 feet tall would easily be a giant among men. Like that on tall guy.

Seeing as I am 5'11. I would be taller than the Spartans on average by several inches.

 

[CartesianFart]

Just seen it during Friday with my cousin(the only 9 year old in the theater)and i have to say
-love the blood and gore of the action sequences with its strong emphasis on valor and determination
-love the ideal of heroism but
-hate the dialogues and it is not intellectually stimulating as the lack of narrative overbites of the historian Herodotus.
-love the thematic scenes of Sparta but still was not statisfied on getting more output on seeing how the inhabitant lived and breathe in the city.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Reviews like this make me unlikely to go see 300.

It was stylish while you were watching it, and preachy, absurd, and overdone in retrospect.

Here's a great review.....

Here's another, this review and the movie are more 'tuned' to each other it seems:

I just saw a movie that'll give your eyes boners, make your balls scream and make you poop DVD copies of THE TRANSPORTER. It's called 300. I don't know what the title has to do with the movie, but they could've called it KITTENS MAKING CANDLES and it'd still rule.

It's about these 300 Greek dudes who stomp the sugar-coated **** out of like a million other dudes. I have a feeling that a lot of high school sports coaches are going to show this film to their teams before they play. Also, gay dudes and divorced women are going to use screen captures for computer wallpaper.

The movie takes place about a million years ago, and it's sort of like a prequel to SIN CITY. Except way less guns and cars but twice as much skull splitting. If you watch this movie and go into a Taco Bell, and say to the cashier, "I need some extra sauce packets" guess what? You're getting twenty sauce packets because your face will punch him in the brain.

I can't spoil the plot because THANK GOD THERE ISN'T ONE. Just ass kicking that kicks ass that, while said ass is getting kicked, is kicking yet more ass that's hitting someone's balls with a hammer made of ice but the ice is frozen whiskey.

TWO COOL THINGS ABOUT THE MOVIE AND ONE THING I DIDN'T LIKE:

COOL THING ONE:
HEAVY METAL DURING BATTLE SCENES

Who gives a **** if the music isn't historically correct? LORD OF THE RINGS could've used some Journey. This movie has that chu-CHUNG kind of metal that you hear in your head when your shift supervisor at Wetzel's Pretzel is telling you that you'll have to stay for clean up and you wish you had a sock filled with quarters in your hand.

COOL THING TWO:
FOES, MINI-BOSSES AND A BIG BOSS

Basically, the Greek dudes are fighting these Persian dudes, but the director, who must have a dick made of three machine guns, does it all like a video game. The Greeks fight every death metal video from the last ten years. There's wave after wave of giants, freaks, ninjas, mutants, wizards, and a hunchback who looks like he's got Rosie O'Donnell on his back.

Would I have been happy if Dom DeLuise from HISTORY OF THE WORLD, PART I had shown up? Maybe, but this movie more than makes up for that glaring oversight.

NOT SO GOOD THING:
DUDE NUDITY ("DUDE-ITY")

These are Greek times, when there were a lot of naked women around. And there are some naked women in this film, but almost every naked woman scene has a muscular dude giving the screen an ass picnic. Dude-ity is something directors put in their movies so people will think they're serious, I guess, and not just throwing in naked hotties.

Any directors reading this – IT'S OKAY TO JUST THROW IN NAKED HOTTIES.

Can't someone make a movie about naked Amazons and call it PAUSE BUTTON?

My final analysis is 300 the most ass-ruling movie I've seen this year, and will probably be the King of 2007 unless someone makes a movie where a pair of sentient boobs fights a werewolf!

 

[Mirc]

Here's another, this review and the movie are more 'tuned' to each other it seems:

What? Does this guy have any clue about the event? One million years ago?

 

[Jawsofwar]

Guys you all do realize its not based on historical accurace? Its based on a freakin comic book that is extremely loosely based on history. Some of you all need to get a life if you think every movie has to be historically accurate. Heck the Persians in the film weren't even close to the real persians. Its a fricken fantasy film guys. And Pontius Pilate did you really even see the film? The remarks you have about it say you don't. If you want historical accuracey read a book by a historian. The directer wasn't even trying to be accurate.

 

[Jawsofwar]

I don't remember too many jokes about them, the only one I remember was when Leonidas called the Athenians boy-lovers...

Yeah and we know the Spartans and Athenians weren't exactly close friends. The Peloponesian War anyone? Sparta was a monarchy and Athens was a democracy so they had conflicting ideas. If anything the movie 300 implies the spartans were freedom loving, which is interesting for a people under a monarchy . Although they did want Freedom from foreign rule that is for sure.

 

[CartesianFart]

Guys you all do realize its not based on historical accurace? Its based on a freakin comic book that is extremely loosely based on history. Some of you all need to get a life if you think every movie has to be historically accurate. Heck the Persians in the film weren't even close to the real persians. Its a fricken fantasy film guys. And Pontius Pilate did you really even see the film? The remarks you have about it say you don't. If you want historical accuracey read a book by a historian. The directer wasn't even trying to be accurate.

I guess you don't get it as well.There is no such thing of being wrong or being too over-emphathizing on accuracies of a movie that is somewhat of a adaptation of a graphic-novel by the inspiration of some historical fact that could be wrong or right.

I think that as long as major production companies continue to bring only entertainment and shave off any true intellectual quality of a historical story is problematic to our mass culture indifference to the study of history.

 

[RedWolf]

From my experience, most reveiws are utter bull ****...

I diasgaree - but I think you have to read reviews with a grain of salt. For example I try to look for facts in reviews and then ask myself "Would THAT bother me?"... Then form my own opinion. Too many "yeses" and I rule the movie out. I don't think reviews should be believed like scripture but I think they certainly have some value.

Unless of course you're reading the Toronto Sun - nothing in that paper has any value to anybody over the age of 8.

 

[ShannonCT]

Here's another, this review and the movie are more 'tuned' to each other it seems:

That was hilarious. Give this guy his own newspaper column.