3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[Jarula]

Give the German UB quick study extra experience and science and culture whenever a military unit is trained dropping the extra scientist

GREAT IDEA For germany
Or beirgarten grants bonus to great people generation grants culture and science whenever a great person is expended

I would replace Garden. Or better yet amphitheater.

Instead amphitheater grants bonus 15% gp
And 15 science culture scaled with era.

Celebrate something about Germany other than it's military.

How many German writers musicians composers industrial revolution began there.

Or provides 2 happiness and +1% gp generation per happiness. Very strong both with a country like Germany and grants them something before hans so everything is not dependent on city states.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Pancerny: I will tweak pancerny according to your suggestions and start working.
Polynesia: i think we should decide what to choose: tongiaki + bath or koa + harbor. We shouldnt give 2 uc naval oriented. Harbor could give some promotion like attack from the sea to land units and other to naval units. Add some tourism bonus as well. Harbor as you suggested is weak.
Germany: I like bier garten idea for germany. It could give oktoberfest promotion to civilian units (joke).

 

[Jarula]

Here's how my idea stands
Replaces amphitheater
+2 science
+1 extra culture
+10% GP
+10 culture scaled with era whenever a great person is expended

Biergarten very very fair Jaeger is a great unit and so is panzer

Also for next one

Spain
We leave it encomierd

And a UB that increases production of both ships and Diplo and drops their price to purchase.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Germany isn’t really a GP-focused civ. The Biergarten is flavorful, but might be pulling from the mechanical focus too much. We could tie it in with city-state diplomacy somehow. Maybe give a %bonus to GP generation per CS ally. But that might be stepping on Austria’s toes.

 

[Jarula]

+5 culture per city state friend
+10 per Ally on GP pop. Instead of flat +15%

 

[pineappledan]

Germany might actually need a new focus for its new UC though. Hanse is pretty laser focused on city states too. If we gave them another diplo bonus they could feel pretty pigeon-holed. I don’t think it should be GP related either, because that makes it too close to Austria like you said.

The panzer is just sitting there, as is. There’s a reason people tend to focus on germany’s Warfighting capabilities after all. Prussia was referred to as ‘the army with a state’, northern German culture was more overtly militaristic than any other European nation. Prussia, before unification, was the 10th most populous European power with the third most powerful army. Bismarck himself wasn’t afraid to get his hands dirty, and they trounced the Austrians and the French under his watch.

On the other hand, I like how different regions and periods can be represented with this.
I like the Hanse as a tip of the hat to the hanseatic league and Germany’s fractured past.
I like the panzer’s nod to a fully unified Germany, fighting the rest of Europe on all fronts.
I like the jaeger, a nod to Prussia’s neo-spartan ideals and a highly trained army corps.
And I like biergarten, a nod to the second largest kingdom and greatest critic of unification: Bavaria

 

[De_Genius]

Andelsbevægelse as a building is now done. I need to do the text and find some images to put in.

How do I make the DDS files required ?

 

[Jarula]

I do think Germany should be great person focused for second UB something to help in science and culture

Maybe +10% gp
Whenever GP is expended grants +15 c
+5 science is perfect. Remember Germany's history.

Honestly they really should be gp oriented.
Austria was simply a German state for a long time a contender for the formation of Germany. Think about ygaemp maps Germany ALWAYS underperforms.

The gp bonus actually makes them more realistic.

Other way to do it would be +1 to great improvement tiles?

 

[Jarula]

Honestly they should be culture oriented.

Perhaps a +5 c whenever a purchase is made...

Bismark etc... Germany was all about social policies.

 

[FoxOfWar]

Indonesia testing: with both their unique luxuries and all the recent plantation buffs and there, plus Kampung yields increased, Indonesia really now wants to go wide-Progress. Lots of turf with fairly awesome yields if you can be in peace. I like how Indonesia's setup now kind of encourages you to go greedy at start, see how far you can push without collapsing to your neighbours. Prau also seems to be in a good place, the +1 sight seems like just the right thing to go with.

Germany: I would say primarily production/city state diplomacy, then warfare/culture as secondary focuses. Dunno what exactly to go with though.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Working tough on Oppidum. It's almost done.
@pineappledan change value of PillageGold for Kampung between 5 and 15. You have now 100 and even olmecs head UI from custom mod had 20 (GP improvement).

 

[Jarula]

Germany beergarten with GP culture focus.

Germany's ua means the bonus is stronger the smaller they are giving them a culture gp building is most fitting and balanced gives them a reason to expand a lil bit more and is beyond culturally fitting.

I love playing ygaemp like lots of others do these extra improvements buff wide civs more if I get my way Germany should get what it always should have gotten go culture focused UB

Bismark was the diplomat but Germany historically Germany was all progress they should be social policy extravaganza.

 

[doublex55]

Germany beergarten with GP culture focus.

Germany's ua means the bonus is stronger the smaller they are giving them a culture gp building is most fitting and balanced gives them a reason to expand a lil bit more and is beyond culturally fitting.

I love playing ygaemp like lots of others do these extra improvements buff wide civs more if I get my way Germany should get what it always should have gotten go culture focused UB

Bismark was the diplomat but Germany historically Germany was all progress they should be social policy extravaganza.

This makes them really similar to Austria.

Maybe Austria can get something that makes her focus only on city states with marriages. That way she is different from other diplomatics — and especially getmany sonce they will both be gp diplomacy — because she wants to get a few city states as much influence as possible.

Something like Gettijng a bonus at 500 influence, 1000 inflence, 2000 influence etc.

Would have to be on a national wonder or one of the guilds tho.

 

[Jarula]

There is 0 problem with similar cultures being similar. Germany's bonus rewards them for city states playing off of BISMARK and the German city states. They have enough bonuses for city states.

Both civs be fine with similarities. Giving Germany the beergarten is very balanced giving them a buff internally is balanced.

Remember hanses help Germany but they are not Germany.

Giving Germany the beergarten would grant them a means of scraping by without city states.

Beergarten
+10% GP
+15 culture per GP pop
+15 science per
Would give them the edge they need to remain competitive without city states. Or with little access to them as most people play.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I'm still not convinced on a great people bonus for a German UU. The additional features should complement the civs' existing game plans, either by playing to their strengths or shoring up their weaknesses. A GP bonus pulls Germany in a different direction entirely.
My suggestion for a German Biergarten would be some bonus on WLTKD. That has synergy with the existing plan of city-state diplomacy, but doesn't require it.
Germany's already claimed by BazaarJack, so he can make the final decision.

I'll claim a few more civs to work on. Looking at the list, I'm taking Brazil, China and Egypt.

First draft:

Spoiler Brazil :

UU: Pracinha (Infantry)
60 CS (up from 55)
3 movement
Amphibious promotion
CS increased with distance from capital
Gain Tourism (with all civs) from kills

UB: Samba School (Opera House)
+5 Culture (up from +3)
+4 Golden Age Points
1 Musician specialist slot
+50% Great Musician rate in the city (up from +33%)
+3 Tourism at Radio

The Pracinha comes super late, so it needs to push hard toward ending the game. I didn't want two post-Industrial UCs, so I moved the Samba School back to the Opera House. A bit anachronistic, but I think it works. Delaying the Tourism bonus until Radio as a compromise.

Spoiler China :

UU: Fire Lancer (Pikeman)
Available at Metal Casting
17 CS (up from 15)
Pyrotechnics (-20 % CS/RCS for all hostile mounted units within two tiles and -5 % CS/RCS for all other land units ; doesn't stack)
Splash Damage
No bonus against mounted units
Treated as a gunpowder unit (probably not relevant for anything)

UB: Examination Hall (Chancery)
2 Civil Servant specialists (up from 1)
+10% Great People rate in the city, increased to +20% during WLTKD
Whenever a citizen is born in the city, gain 15% toward the progress of a random Great Person

I wanted to tie China's four unique components to the Four Great Inventions, but the Chu-Ko-Nu doesn't fit with any of them. The proposals are centered around classical/medieval; perhaps they could be spread out more. Other possible ideas are a Junk (Caravel/Galleass replacement), Red Guard (Rifleman), or Hinin's idea of the Siku Quanshu (which I would prefer as Hermitage rather than Printing Press).

Spoiler Egypt :

UU: Khopesh (Spearman)
13 CS (up from 10)
+25% CS against wounded units

UB: Nilometer (Water Mill)
+4 Food (up from +2)
+2 Culture
+1 and +1 Culture to river tiles, and +2 Science to Flood Plains

Egypt is another civ that doesn't get anything past classical (unless we want to pull in things from modern Egypt), but I spread things out between the ancient and classical era as best as I could.
I also had the idea of the Nilometer giving some insurance against flooding events. I probably won't be able to get Lua to respond to events directly, but maybe I could figure out how to auto-repair pillaged farms that aren't occupied by enemies? Or would that not be worth the effort?

 

[pineappledan]

China
aw man, I was looking forward to the Siku Quanshu, it's a very interesting part of Chinese history. I thought it sounded pretty bad-ass. With the ting being abandoned, it would be the only printing press replacement as well. 15% on a great person whenever a great person is born is more powerful than Japan's UA, and you are suggesting this would proc in every city with a chancery. It's too strong. Even at 5% it would be plenty strong

Brazil
Good call on the opera house replacement.
GAP from kills is lackluster, but the mental image of soldiers murdering people being an incentive to go visit their country of origin is pretty damn hilarious.

Egypt
Khopeshes are functionally crescent axes, because of their curved, protruding design. These weapons would be very effective against lightly armoured opponents. My proposal for Khopesh was to give them bonus damage vs units with lower cp than them.
As written, that nilometer will give 4/1/2 to floodplains, since floodplains are always also river tiles. If it were me I would give gold to river tiles. Nilometers were used as a way to measure the nile's flooding as a means of establishing tax rates for the year. Taxes were lowered if the nile didn't flood sufficiently. Consider that the Tabya was recently changed because culture off river tiles was allowing them to mow through early policy trees.
TL;DR you can't give yields that high to buildings that early. Floating gardens is already a very good building, and it only gives 1 on rivers.

Re: Germany, I'm firmly in the camp of militaristic UB now. Bismark was a Prussian politician above all else, and There's little to indicate Prussia/Germany's overt militarism in the current German build.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Spoiler Greece :

UM - Companion Cavalry (replaces the Great Knight?) : +4 CP from Lancer. Has "Nobility" (Appears each time GP is generated. When dies each surrounding allied unit gain XP. Lost after upgrade) and "Great General I".
Maybe Rhodian slinger mercenary?

UB - Agora (replaces Market) : + 2 , +2 and +2 . +1 in city for each allied to a CS +5% GP. +5% when producing a diplomatic units. No changes to sugar and spices bonuses and trade routes bonuses.

 

[Jarula]

How about culture whenever a unit is produced for Germany?

 

[adan_eslavo]

Spoiler Spain :

UM - Armada (replaces Corvette) : available at Gunpowder instead of Navigation ; increased production/gold cost (350 instead of 300) ; 35 CP instead of 30 ; -1 PM ; has the "earn GA points from kills" and the "Invicible" (+3 XP at the end of each turn at foreign territory if the unit has all its health ; cap at 45 XP points) promotions;
=> Inspired by this mod by lincoln-lyf

UC - Encomenderos (replaces Envoy) : Never becomes obsolete ; can be bought with faith (250 + 30 each era) ; +10 influence, +5 each consecutive era. After performing mission in CS gains gold and culture and spread religion for 50% missionary strength

Spoiler Ottomans :

UM - Sipahi (replaces Lancer) : increased production/gold cost (375 instead of 350) ; 33 CP instead of 30 ; +1 PM ; doesn't have malus against cites ; has the "can pillage without cost" and the "+25 % CS against wounded units" promotions.
He is now modified Tug Banner Warrior. I will think of changing it. Maybe you have ideas? Maybe mehmetcik or great bombard?

UW - Sublime Porte/ Babiali (replaces National Monument) : must be built in capital city ; 1 civil servant specialist ; -20 % religious unrest ; + 20 % GP generation in city ; 2 Great work of Writing slots (+5 and +5 GAP when themed with GWW of your civilization) instead of 1 Great Work of art slot ; +45 GAP when adopting a policy, building a city or conquering a city (scaling with era).

 

[FoxOfWar]

Thoughts:

Brazil:
I think Pracinha could still do with +GA points from kills, if only because Tourism from kills seems very silly. Can always tweak the numbers so that the amount of GAP from kills is great enough to potentially make a difference. I would also flip the CS based on proximity to capital - at that point in the game, Brazil is mostly like going to want to protect their own turf and not fight great distances away.

Samba School seems fine as a compromise.
--
China:
For fire lancer my worry is mostly - do we have assets for that? If yes, rock on, seems solid.
Examination Hall's GP boost needs to be down to very small, like 2-3% levels, given that China's UA can given them completely ridiculous growth bonuses if you stack your deck right.

--

Egypt:
Khopesh: Seems good. I like pineappledan's idea of making them stronger vs. lower CS units.
Nilometer could probably heavily do with shifting the raw yields to the building itself and just a small bonus, like +1 gold on river and additional +1 gold on flood plain.

--

Greece:
I like Companion Cavalry's 'Nobility' promotion, placement in tech tree not sure about.
Agora seems solid.

--

Spain:
Not entirely sold on the Encomenderos, but that's probably me thinking Spain more wide/religious/growth civ than a diplomatic one. Actual playtesting will probably prove me wrong, as there certainly is power in being able to faith-buy CS influence.

--

Ottomans:
Should the Nat Mon replacement grant an additional trade route, to tie it into their UA? Just a thought.
Sipahi I think should fill a role of protecting trade routes and being a solid pillaging force. +1 sight +1 movement, maybe extra healing from pillaging (but no free pillaging) as a starting point?