3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[pineappledan]

re how to do the citizen pop boost. It honest might come down to what’s easiest to code. I’m not a huge fan of using % of one yield to arbitrate a 1-time boost for another, unless there was a legitimate cultural reason for us to do it that way., but we’ll see when I get into the weeds on it

@Jarula I’m not giving % attack buffs to Polynesia unless I strip them from moai. As is, with a GG Polynesia gets a 35% boost to strength in their own territory. That’s enough

 

[doublex55]

re how to do the citizen pop boost. It honest might come down to what’s easiest to code. I’m not a huge fan of using % of one yield to arbitrate a 1-time boost for another, unless there was a legitimate cultural reason for us to do it that way., but we’ll see when I get into the weeds on it

The idea was to synergize better with the skola later on but its not a big deal if it is tough to code.

 

[doublex55]

I really like the idea of a unique polynesian harbour replacement.
Is there any chance it could cause fishing boats to grant adjacency bonus to moai for that sweet sweet triangle? Also the friendly waters defense promotion would be good here.

With this you can also do the koa and they wouldnt be too early loaded.

 

[pineappledan]

So the koa stays then? All agreed say aye?

 

[FoxOfWar]

Myeah, seems like something that we'll only see in testing where it is. Rock on.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Spoiler Yellow Brows :

Yellow Brow (Ohamupe)
Tercio replacement
26 CS instead of 25
330 instead of 300 (they were elite of elites forces formed of the bravest men)
anti-mounted I "Ohamupe" Gains 10%strength when fighting alone (not lost)
No Retreat - Fights at full strength when damaged. (lost on promotion)
‘Big Horse Dance’ Promotion - Double fortification bonus (80% instead of 40%)
using the black mouth unit as a model for now

I found that there was another horse unit "Wopine/Big Logs but they were subordinated to Yellow Brows. So I would stay with yellow brows.

Spoiler Buffalo Pound :

Buffalo Pound
well replacement
no maintenance (down from 1)
+1 production and +1 food (up from +1 only)
+1 production and +1 food for every 5 population
+2 from deer, sheep, cattle, horse & bison
creates 1 bison sources around the city if city is not placed on plains or
creates 2 bison sources around the city if city is placed on plains or
can be built on fresh water
can be built if city has water mill

What do you think of this? It would make this building more original. I dont like deer or sheep buff for them. It doesn't fit.

Code for placing cow from mikeburnfires' 3UC mod:

-- Place Bison -- Author: Neirai -- DateCreated: 5/12/2014 9:35:31 AM

function buildACow(pPlayer, pCity)
    for pCityPlot = 1, pCity:GetNumCityPlots() - 1, 1 do
        local pSpecificPlot = pCity:GetCityIndexPlot(pCityPlot)
        if
            pSpecificPlot:GetTerrainType() == TerrainTypes.TERRAIN_GRASS then
            if pSpecificPlot:GetFeatureType() == (-1) and not pSpecificPlot:IsMountain() then
                if pSpecificPlot:GetResourceType(-1) == (-1) then
                    pSpecificPlot:SetResourceType(GameInfoTypes.RESOURCE_COW, 1)
                    pSpecificPlot:SetImprovementType(GameInfoTypes.IMPROVEMENT_PASTURE)
                    print("Cow Placed on Grasslands")
                    return true
                end
            end
                elseif
            pSpecificPlot:GetTerrainType() == TerrainTypes.TERRAIN_PLAINS then
            if pSpecificPlot:GetFeatureType() == (-1) and not pSpecificPlot:IsMountain() then
                if pSpecificPlot:GetResourceType(-1) == (-1) then
                    pSpecificPlot:SetResourceType(GameInfoTypes.RESOURCE_COW, 1)
                    pSpecificPlot:SetImprovementType(GameInfoTypes.IMPROVEMENT_PASTURE)
                    print("Cow Placed on Plains")
                    return true
                end
            end
        end
    end
    return false
end
 
function PutCowSomewhere(player, city, building)
    print(building)
    print(GameInfoTypes.BUILDING_BULLRING)
    if building == GameInfoTypes.BUILDING_3UC_BULLRING then
        local pPlayer = Players[player]
            local pCity = pPlayer:GetCityByID(city)
            if buildACow(pPlayer, pCity) == false then
                print("No place to place a Cow.")
        end
    end
end
GameEvents.CityConstructed.Add(PutCowSomewhere)

Spoiler Tongiaki :

Possible Tongiaki
Spoiler :
21 (1+ from caravel)
120 instead of 160
Catamaran (can heal outside of friendly territory, +1 move, lost on upgrade, +10%defense on deep ocean tiles )
Any other?

I think that nation based on water life dont need another melee unit. We need to show them as a counter for f.e. Indonesia. I don't see anything bad if we make for both of them ship unit. But with Tongiaki and Fale Tel'e we have 2 very early UC.

Spoiler Fale Tel'e :

UB - Fale Tel'e
Council replacement Another Baths replacement? The havent got baths on polynesia, right?
+3 Culture +3 (instead of +2)
+1 and +1 to Fishing boats
+10% :c5 production production to naval forces
Temples, Harbors, and Gardens in City +1 and +1
+10% in the City during Golden Ages
City must be built next to coast (was river)
Any other? Tourism? I know it's too early on tourism but its so natural.

I know, another baths, but why not?

Spoiler Hakkapeliitta :

UU - Hakkapeliitta
Lancer replacement
38 CP (up from 35)
Great General II Promotion
Charge I Promotion (10 % attack in open terrain ; +25 % attack vs wounded unit)
unlocked at Gunpowder (1 tech earlier, now cannons lancer and tercio all on same tech. perfect for the Lion of the North)

Carolean moved back to rifling and is now a fusilier replacement (same as vanilla)
38 (up from 35)
retains Grenadier, General Stack, and March promotions

I like it for now.

 

[De_Genius]

1. First of all add dependency from VP to your mod. It helps many times.
2. I saw somewhere that these 3 lines should be 1 instead of 0. Does this do something? I don't know :

<ReloadLandmarkSystem>0</ReloadLandmarkSystem>
    <ReloadStrategicViewSystem>0</ReloadStrategicViewSystem>
    <ReloadUnitSystem>0</ReloadUnitSystem>

3. I also have problems with 3d models. I left it for other times.
4. This code borrows all promotions from caravel. Did you check if it has those two unnecessary promotion?

--------------------------------
-- Unit_FreePromotions
--------------------------------
INSERT INTO Unit_FreePromotions    
            (UnitType,                     PromotionType)
SELECT        'UNIT_DANISH_LANGSKIB',         PromotionType
FROM Unit_FreePromotions WHERE UnitType = 'UNIT_CARAVEL';

5. Caravel was upgraded in vanilla civ to ironclas AFAIR. Dependency should work.
6. To check tables for VP use sqlitespy from first post of this thread. It helps a lot. Set CP like you want. After that all of us check if it is balanced and this values can be changed any time.

Thank you for the input. I will try it out today.

Btw. could someone mark Denmark as taken on the initial post, so someone else does not waste time on it ?

 

[adan_eslavo]

@Blue Ghost will do it as asap. He is thread coordinator.



What do you think of changing Polish UU from Voi to more unique polish medieval Pancerny or Towarzysz Pancerny from this mod. I would use that art and current Voi's Bogurodzica promotion. It would be Heavy Skirmisher. Very strong melee and range. Why? Here:

Spoiler Weapons, sorry for Google translate :

These soldiers were protected by mail, less bechter and cords and mischief hoods, and sometimes tinsel. They used light, circular shields of kalkan (Mongolian-Tatar origin). They were armed with sabers, reflective bows, firearms (pistols, bandits, rudders), and sometimes waiters and parachute guns. The obligation to have spears was introduced in the times of Jan III Sobieski. Instead of spears, Lithuanian gunmen had additional equipment in the form of rohatin (sometimes copies).

Chain mails and misiurkas were not the norm in the Cossacker flags (many of them fought in the Lisowczyk's style, without protective armaments), and in armor platitudes they were almost all comrades.

 

[Blue Ghost]

@De_Genius I have added you to the list of volunteers and marked you down for Denmark.

In other news, the A civs are code complete. They're still using default graphics, but are playable, so you can go try 'em out. I'll go around and add the art assets later, or @adan_eslavo or someone else can help with that.

 

[De_Genius]

Ok. I added CP as a dependency and that fixed both the promotion and the upgrade weirdness.

I am a little concerned about giving it all the healing promotions, since along with the Longboat promotion from the Danish leader and 2 promotions from having Barracks and Armory will have -60% dmg from cities and +25 healing pr turn along with +10 healing to adjacent units. 2-3 boats will be able to forever tanking a city. To be giving it +1 movement or +1 sigh instead of both healing promotions seems more balanced, since Supply is very strong to start with.

I am still having problems with getting the unit model in. I have found a Greenland which have successfully replaced the model and I am basing my attempt on that. So far I have managed to get an invisible ship . So the version attached here just uses the normal Caravel model.

If someone who knew how to insert the models could take a look at the code, I would greatly appreciate it.

Regarding the Ting building, I have been pondering replacing it with another more modern building to give the Danish something later in the game to look forward to and spread out the Danish UCs, since all of them being based on the Viking era is a bit dull.
I suggest a replacement for the Agribusiness building based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_cooperative_movement, called Andelsbevægelsen in Danish. I imagine it to providing +20% food instead of 15%, not requiring horses, +10% production to buildings, and +1f/+1p/1g (or something like that) to Pastures to fit the theme.

 

[pineappledan]

I'm a little confused about the healing promotion myself. Adjacent naval units can't take advantage of that unless they also have supply, correct? Effectively, that only makes that promotion useful for itself and for land units healing on coast.

my idea for the langskib would be the following:

• Don't give them +1 vision and move. Caravels already get +1 vision, so just keep that the same. Longships are shallow-drafted vessels; they weren't really that fast or impressive w.r.t. performance on ocean voyages. Their advantages lie in their lightweait construction and their double-sided design, allowing for quick changes in direction or embark/disembarkation
• ditch supply, keep medic I & II. This emphasizes their working in tandem with a "shore party"
• Give them the ability to move after attacking, same as a mounted unit. Emphasize the hit and run raiding aspect.
• Embarked units that start on the same tile as langskib can cross ocean tiles (use the code from the tonga mod). This allows them to explore and settle across continents 1 tech earlier than anyone else except Polynesia, but they wouldn't have the better settle like Spain, or as easy a time of it as Polynesia

Right now Denmark has:
1 classical era unit (berserker)
1 classical era building (runestone)
1 medieval era unit (langskib)
1 medieval era wonder (ting) or 1 industrial era building (Andelsbevægelsen)
Either way it seems reasonably well spread, I don't think you have to worry about that much, I'd just try to make it 'fun'

current ting:

Spoiler :

available at Education (instead of Printing Press)
+1
+1 paper
+20% production on diplomatic units
+5 influence, +1 and ignore terrain on diplo units
2 civil servant specialists (instead of 1)
+1 and +1 in each Village, Town and Colonia
+30 and +15 in the city when a Great Person is expended
requires a Chancery in the city.

Problems with tech spacing could be resolved by simply, NOT moving the wonder up two whole tech levels. Then it would be a renaissance building. You could give it some more buffs to compensate.
I'm not really a fan of the extra specialist slot

current Andelsbevægelsen:

Spoiler :

available at fertilizer
+5
+20% food
+10% production on buildings
+1/+1/+1 on pastures
does not require horses

No real issues, far as I'm concerned. They both look good to me. I think the coop is less work, and less difficult to balance, so I would go with that. Your call.

 

[pineappledan]

@adan_eslavo thanks for the thorough input!

Yellow Brow: yeah the Logs were old men, support and rearguard, they weren’t frontline fighters, so I figured Yellow Brow was more interesting. The chief who led a band of yellow brows would carry with him a crooked staff designed to pull men from horses. I figured the anti-mounted promotion worked well because of that.

Buffalo Pound: I agree with dropping deer. I’m conflicted about sheep because of the Tukudeka Eastern Shoshone. Their common name is the sheep eaters because they hunted bighorn sheep in the mountains. I could do the adds a bison tile thing, but I would do the following:
Adds 1 food to cattle, sheep, horses and bison
If city is on flat plains or grassland, a bison resource appears near the city.
2 resources is a little extreme.
Essentially, I propose to drop deer and add a bison tile. With the stacking with water mill I’m afraid to make it any stronger

Polynesia: if I were to add the Tongiaki I would keep it as a trireme replacement. Tongiaki just aren’t very impressive boats; they aren’t an answer to a caravel. Maori on the other hand, deserve to be a later tech because the Maori were able to fight colonial British to a stalemate.

No trireme replacement will ever be a good enough scout to supplant an embarked unit for Polynesia. They are available immediately and can snag ruins. I’m loathe to give Polynesia a ‘domination’ unit like quinquereme. How bout this?

Spoiler :

Tongiaki- trireme replacement
16 CP
25 culture when Tongiaki constructs a fishing boat
Has exotic cargo promotion (increased gold and xp the further the city state is from capital. 2 charges)

tongiaki sounds like it has been outvoted in favour of the koa, but I will do a 5UC build and have people try it. We can decide which UU people like more

Fale tele - sounds like people really don’t like the council idea. @doublex55 suggested a harbour; you suggested baths. I’ll draft a proposal for each
Fale Original

Spoiler :

UB - Fale Tel'e
Council replacement
+1 Science and +1 Culture (up from 1 only)
+1 to Fishing boats
5 when a citizen is born, scaling with era
15 when a naval unit is produced in the city, scaling with era.

Fale 1

Spoiler :

UB - Fale Tel'e
Bath replacement
+2 and +2 (up from 2)
Lighthouses, Harbours in City +3 and +3 (instead of +1/1 to amphitheaters, temples and gardens)
+10% in the City during Golden Ages
+5 in city when a building is constructed in the city, scaling with era

Fale 2

Spoiler :

UB - Fale Tel'e
Harbour replacement
unlocked at theology (up 1 tech level)
+3 , 2 (up from 1)
no maintenance (down from 2)
When a Sea Trade Route originating here and targeting another Civ is completed, receive a Tourism boost with the Civ based on your recent output.
Sea Trade Routes gain +50% Range and +2 .
+1 and +2 from Coast and Ocean tiles. (up from 1/1)
+20% of Naval units. (up from 15%)
15 when a naval unit is produced in the city, scaling with era.
+1 on Sea Resources
+5% supply cap from pop

Re the polish UU. I think that’s fine. It synergizes very well with ducal stables and there’s a certain level of antipathy towards pikeman replacements as well. I think the cover bonuses as proposed are overkill though

 

[adan_eslavo]

@adan_eslavo thanks for the thorough input!

Yellow Brow: yeah the Logs were old men, support and rearguard, they weren’t frontline fighters, so I figured Yellow Brow was more interesting. The chief who led a band of yellow brows would carry with him a crooked staff designed to pull men from horses. I figured the anti-mounted promotion worked well because of that.

Buffalo Pound: I agree with dropping deer. I’m conflicted about sheep because of the Tukudeka Eastern Shoshone. Their common name is the sheep eaters because they hunted bighorn sheep in the mountains. I could do the adds a bison tile thing, but I would do the following:
Adds 1 food to cattle, sheep, horses and bison
If city is on flat plains or grassland, a bison resource appears near the city.
2 resources is a little extreme.
Essentially, I propose to drop deer and add a bison tile. With the stacking with water mill I’m afraid to make it any stronger

Ok, I didn't know about the Tukudeka Eastern Shoshone thing. Yeah, I was too optimistic ith 2 bison tiles. With yellow brow do as you wish. On green were only my suggestions. You cn take it or not. What about Polynesia?


@Blue Ghost I read your descriptions and have one question. Do you put there only things that are an addition to the standard build f.e.

Spoiler Madrasah :

Madrasah (University)
+2 Faith
+15% Great Person generation
Whenever a Faith purchase is made in the city, gain 20 Science, scaling with era

and all the old things from university

+3
1 Scientist Specialist
+1 from Jungle and Forest tiles worked by this City.
Gain 33% of the output of the City as an instant boost to your current Research when a Citizen is born in this City.
Reduces Illiteracy (-20%).
City must have a Library.

Could you bring to the site full descriptions to not to go to the wiki every time and check things? It would be easier to make some tweaks then.

What about my recent Polish UU change suggestion?
What do you think about unit flag icons I made? All of them are my personal thoughts about how they should look.

v4 ready! Mongolia completed. @Blue Ghost You can update 2nd post.

Spoiler Polish new UU - Pancerny :

UM - Pancerny (replaces Heavy Skirmisher) : 22 CP instead of 18 and 25 RCP instead of 22. Cost increased from 175 Production to 220. Has "Bogurodzica" (Gain Faith for every killed enemy unit. Bonus doubled on barbarians) and "Heavy Defense" (50% Defense Bonus against ranged attacks. May attack melee. Lost after unit upgrade) Promotions.

 

[pineappledan]

I don't get the "may attack melee"

50% vs ranged attack is incredibly strong. Also, these would stack with cover I and cover II for a full 100% reduction in ranged attack dmg. I would give them cover I instead

 

[Jarula]

Aight so cracks knucles back to Japan Daiymo. Japanese Navy was not so impressive from the ships. What made them impressive was their Navy their discipline organization. The Dojo grants 25 XP that's basically an extra promotion.

I like to think of this like giant earth map would they be fair in ygaemp?

Fall telle harbour.

 

[doublex55]

Aight so cracks knucles back to Japan Daiymo. Japanese Navy was not so impressive from the ships. What made them impressive was their Navy their discipline organization. The Dojo grants 25 XP that's basically an extra promotion.

I like to think of this like giant earth map would they be fair in ygaemp?

Fall telle harbour.

Yup, the way to go is to allow the Fale Tel’e as a harbor give a promotion to naval units. This way their ships have something but we dont have to make an entire UU. Also I would make have it grant moai adjacency properties to fishing boats. Sorry @pineappledan but your harbor is really boring.

 

[pineappledan]

@Blue Ghost or @Enginseer or someone. I am trying to re-add hakkapeliitta to Sweden right now. Is it easier to just create a full new unit that happens to use all the art assets and have identical stats to the hakka already ingame, or is it easier to somehow overwrite the SQLs that removed the hakka from CBP Sweden in the first place? I'm worried that me trying to re-add the Hakka is going to cause conflicting/unpredictable code

EDIT: also, I need to revert a change to the Carolean, to change its prereq tech and attack power.

 

[Jarula]

Germany's UB needs buff in fact all the European UB are WEAK. Especially if they come so late. Austrias is strong.

Actually Germany should get a UW something maybe like reichstag grants a bonus based on which policies were adopted.

 

[pineappledan]

I agree that the German UB is currently in need of more deliberation. Not a fan of buildings and units getting moved around the tech tree as much as they are, and germany’s Is currently moved two tech levels for.... reasons?

The Grande ecole is a fine idea, maybe the numbers need tweaking.
The Austrian Standschutssen looks great to me. I’m really happy with it
England... I dunno. White tower looks okay? Unique wonders are hard to conceptualize for balance

 

[doublex55]

Another option for Harbor promotion.

Melee units gain built in the city gain amphibious and a unique promtion that does bonus damage when embarked attack onto land.