3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
- Status
pineappledan
Deity
Why is the oppidum unlocked at construction if it's a great person improvement? It doesn't need to have a prereqtech does it, or it should be set at agriculture?
Sorry, I didn't do my research properly concerning the harbour.
Sorry, I didn't do my research properly concerning the harbour.
- harbor was given 100hp to city 2 patches ago. remove the increased CP and increase the bonus HP to 100 instead of 50
- I wrote it down wrong. Prize ships should only be given to melee ships. There's no sense giving it to ranged ships
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I only used unit models from other mods. I don't have any program and experience in 3D modelling. You can view files in my modpack to check what of them are needed. Check few of them because that number change depending on who made those models. sometimes it is 4 files sometimes more. The only file you mention in sql is .fxsxml file. And remember: DON'T change the name of any of those files (3D model group) because they are all connected. When I changed the names 3D model stopped working. You can see that I always put this model to the different folder not to mix my files and 3D files.
Code:
------------------------------
-- ArtDefine_UnitMemberInfos
------------------------------
INSERT INTO ArtDefine_UnitMemberInfos
(Type, Scale, ZOffset, Domain, Model, MaterialTypeTag, MaterialTypeSoundOverrideTag)
SELECT 'ART_DEF_UNIT_MEMBER_OTTOMANS_DARDANELLESGUN', Scale, ZOffset, Domain, 'Bombard.fxsxml', MaterialTypeTag, MaterialTypeSoundOverrideTag
FROM ArtDefine_UnitMemberInfos WHERE Type = 'ART_DEF_UNIT_MEMBER_CANNON';
Code:
------------------------------
-- ArtDefine_UnitInfoMemberInfos
------------------------------
INSERT INTO ArtDefine_UnitInfoMemberInfos
(UnitInfoType, UnitMemberInfoType, NumMembers)
SELECT 'ART_DEF_UNIT_OTTOMANS_DARDANELLESGUN', 'ART_DEF_UNIT_MEMBER_OTTOMANS_DARDANELLESGUN', 1
FROM ArtDefine_UnitInfoMemberInfos WHERE UnitInfoType = 'ART_DEF_UNIT_CANNON';
Code:
------------------------------
-- ArtDefine_UnitInfos
------------------------------
INSERT INTO ArtDefine_UnitInfos
(Type, DamageStates, Formation)
SELECT 'ART_DEF_UNIT_OTTOMANS_DARDANELLESGUN', DamageStates, Formation
FROM ArtDefine_UnitInfos WHERE Type = 'ART_DEF_UNIT_CANNON';
Use IGE mod to spawn units and their unique substitutes and compare them on the field at the same time. I did this in my modpack and they worked well (5 nations).
Ok. I will change that. Yeah, I was testing few things with unlocking technology and forgot to remove that. Thank you.
Ok I have un problema grande with 2 Dardanelles Guns at one time thing. I found that Assyrians Siege Tower is treated as Support unit and they made for them new unit class whichc is needed to set max limit to 2. So they can built 2 siege towers and multum of catapults at a time. When I do the same to trebuchet and dardanelles gun I had situation as follows: before researching trebu I could build catapult, then after researching trebu I couldn't build neither of two and then after machinery I could make dardanelle. So there two ways of resolving this problem. 1st: leaving trebu as it is and making additional dardanelle gun more powerful tier later or 2nd deleting 2 unit cap from dardanelle, making it unitclass_trebuchet substitute and be happy to not to have trebu forever and never
. What to you choose (sic! 2nd).
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pineappledan
Deity
I forgot that if you had more than 2 catapults, then you can't upgrade. Oops. You're right, even if we could get it to work it would just cause different problems. I vote for creating a new UNITCLASS_BOMBARD, and giving the Ottomans back their trebuchets. They'll never use them anyways if they know what's good for 'em 
Regarding the name, I originally thought the Dardanelles Gun was used in the original siege of Constantinople, but now I realize it was not cast until 10 years later. The original guns used in the siege were cast by an engineer named Orban, and only one of his cannons' actual names is known: "Basilica". Collectively, the cannons he made are called "Orban Cannons/Bombards/Guns". Perhaps that would be better?
Regarding the name, I originally thought the Dardanelles Gun was used in the original siege of Constantinople, but now I realize it was not cast until 10 years later. The original guns used in the siege were cast by an engineer named Orban, and only one of his cannons' actual names is known: "Basilica". Collectively, the cannons he made are called "Orban Cannons/Bombards/Guns". Perhaps that would be better?
Ottomans are ready. They only need final cut. I will do this tomorrow as well as decide what name they should have .
.
pineappledan
Deity
@adan_eslavo Looking through your code right now @adan_eslavo. I'll edit this as I continue to comment
- Scrivener's office was changed in the recent patch to have +2 paper instead of 1. Could increase Sachem's council to +3 paper now. Worth considering
- Sachem's council description says it gives +20% to diplo units production, but the code only shows +10%
- Sachem's council does not have the Scrivener's office's 10% of current production added to city's production whenever a citizen is born. Is this intentional?
- Scythed Chariot: I think you should split the scythe mechanics up into component parts. Right now it's one promotions, but it gives the scythe damage, ignores ZOC, and has the rough terrain debuff. It's too much information for 1 promotion.
- Give scythed chariot the 'PROMOTION_ROUGH_TERRAIN_ENDS_TURN' so it's consistent with other chariot units
- I would also consider giving the chariot 'PROMOTION_TARGETING_4' (ignores zone of control), which would give the unit at least 1 component which stays after upgrade.
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I will fix Sachem's Council. How do you like Sachem's Picture? Will be good? It looks weak when it is small, but in civilopedia 256px version is good I think.
Yeah I put it to one promotion for now because I didn't know what could stay after the upgrade. TARGETING_4 wouldn't be to OP? maybe SENTRY (1 vision) instead?
I will put Rough terrain as a single component. You re right, rest of chariots has it, so this one also should be visible.
"Sachem's council does not have the Scrivener's office's 10% of current production added to city's production whenever a citizen is born. Is this intentional?" Yeah that was some kind of intentional. We have so much other useful stuff for SO that I decided to cut this one. Do you think it should be brought back?
I am about to choose the name of the ottoman's cannon: "Basilica" (first cannon of that type) "Dardanelles Gun" (last cannon of that type) or "Great Turkish Bombard" (general name used in conjuction with Dardanelles Gun, the most neutral one). I don't want to put Orban's name there. What do you think?
Do we want to change start bias for Suleiman to coast because of Tersane? Now is on hills.
Set missing NationalPopRequired value to 15 instead of 20 for Sachem's Council.
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phantomaxl1207
King
The Production per Pop birth was moved to the Aqueduct. That effect was replaced by Yields from CS friends / allies.
The Ottomans didn't need to start on the coast, but now they have a reason to.
Dardanelle's sounds fine; we can use them to take Constantinople.
The Ottomans didn't need to start on the coast, but now they have a reason to.
Dardanelle's sounds fine; we can use them to take Constantinople.
pineappledan
Deity
Oh, I like the yields from CS. I would add it in; just make it identical to the Scr Of.
I would go for Great Turkish bombard in that case. You could split the difference, and create a list of names for the unitclass, as if they are great people. If so, you could make a list of those some names.
I'm on the fence for changing start bias. On one hand the Turks were initially nomadic horsemen, so I kinda like their start bias being "in the hills". On the other hand, a unique building is a unique building, and Istanbul itself is a coastal city IRL. The biggest bonuses from that harbour only require you to have a single coastal city, and it wouldn't have to be your capital. The harbour is quite late as well, so I would expect most empires to have at least 1 coastal city by then.
I would go for Great Turkish bombard in that case. You could split the difference, and create a list of names for the unitclass, as if they are great people. If so, you could make a list of those some names.
Code:
<Unit_UniqueNames>
<Row>
<UnitType>UNIT_BOMBARD</UnitType>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_BOMBARD_1</UniqueName>
</Row>
<Row>
<UnitType>UNIT_BOMBARD</UnitType>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_BOMBARD_2</UniqueName>
</Row>
<Row>
<UnitType>UNIT_BOMBARD</UnitType>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_BOMBARD_3</UniqueName>
</Row>
</Unit_UniqueNames>
<Language_en_US>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BOMBARD_1">
<Text>Basilic</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BOMBARD_1">
<Text>Mohammed's Great Gun</Text>
</Row>
<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BOMBARD_1">
<Text>Dardanelles Gun</Text>
</Row>
</Language_en_US>For now I changed bias. We will see how it will work. You know, if Ottomans would start right in the middle of the continent, then they are screwed.
Added CS bonuses to SO as well as free emissary and Population requirement. I will add those names. Thanks for code.
I looked again at actual Klepth design and it seems to be OP. Also we need to think which promotions will stayafter the upgrade. Same thing with Armada altough it is well balanced.
@pineappledan Could you post me last version of polynesia and shoshone we agreed? I want to put them in my description post.
And information for all: @pineappledan and me traded some jobs in between. I will do Polynesia and Shoshone civs after finishing Greece, Spain and Ottomans and he will do very needed spell checking, grammar and vocabulary revision of all civilopedia entries and UC desciptions of my civs after polishing Sweden. And then he will continue adding entries to nex civs.
Added CS bonuses to SO as well as free emissary and Population requirement. I will add those names. Thanks for code.
I looked again at actual Klepth design and it seems to be OP. Also we need to think which promotions will stayafter the upgrade. Same thing with Armada altough it is well balanced.
@pineappledan Could you post me last version of polynesia and shoshone we agreed? I want to put them in my description post.
And information for all: @pineappledan and me traded some jobs in between. I will do Polynesia and Shoshone civs after finishing Greece, Spain and Ottomans and he will do very needed spell checking, grammar and vocabulary revision of all civilopedia entries and UC desciptions of my civs after polishing Sweden. And then he will continue adding entries to nex civs.
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pineappledan
Deity
Re: the Klepht, how about this?
Changes: removed withdraw on attack
reduced defense CS by 2
changed GAP on kill to "philhellenism". Don't know what bonus to give it, or what is possible. My favourite Osborne the first suggestion (food/prod from city states). It synergizes with the Greek UA, which would make the klepht the only UC with overt synergy for Greece
justification: Klephts were bandits who hid in the mountains of Greece, mostly within the Peloponnese. The war for Greek independence had a tremendous amount of sympathy from the West, who felt a cultural debt to Greece. Volunteers raised food, money, even troops from across Europe and North America. The Klephts and Armatoloi, basically the only armed groups inside Greece at the beginning, just had to hold on until popular opinion forced the hands of western powers to intervene. Which they did.
GAP on kills wasn't the best way of modelling this. My aim is to make klephts slippery, but not overly powerful, and to give them something to reflect other civ's support for their cause.
@Blue Ghost, would you like me to go through the text for your UC additions? I have completed my work on Adan’s completed civs and am going to start work on his in-progress ones
Spoiler :
Changes: removed withdraw on attack
reduced defense CS by 2
changed GAP on kill to "philhellenism". Don't know what bonus to give it, or what is possible. My favourite Osborne the first suggestion (food/prod from city states). It synergizes with the Greek UA, which would make the klepht the only UC with overt synergy for Greece
justification: Klephts were bandits who hid in the mountains of Greece, mostly within the Peloponnese. The war for Greek independence had a tremendous amount of sympathy from the West, who felt a cultural debt to Greece. Volunteers raised food, money, even troops from across Europe and North America. The Klephts and Armatoloi, basically the only armed groups inside Greece at the beginning, just had to hold on until popular opinion forced the hands of western powers to intervene. Which they did.
GAP on kills wasn't the best way of modelling this. My aim is to make klephts slippery, but not overly powerful, and to give them something to reflect other civ's support for their cause.
@Blue Ghost, would you like me to go through the text for your UC additions? I have completed my work on Adan’s completed civs and am going to start work on his in-progress ones
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Blue Ghost
King
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2016
- Messages
- 710
The klepht seems a little on the weak side for an industrial UU. Not sure how relevant it is to be able to move after attack, when they only have 2 movement to begin with. It's a bit odd that they're a ranged unit, but if that's what you're going with, how about Indirect Fire? That would make them even better at fighting in hills, and harder to deal with.Re: the Klepht, how about this?
Spoiler :
Changes: removed withdraw on attack
reduced defense CS by 2
changed GAP on kill to "philhellenism". Don't know what bonus to give it, or what is possible. My favourite Osborne the first suggestion (food/prod from city states). It synergizes with the Greek UA, which would make the klepht the only UC with overt synergy for Greece
justification: Klephts were bandits who hid in the mountains of Greece, mostly within the Peloponnese. The war for Greek independence had a tremendous amount of sympathy from the West, who felt a cultural debt to Greece. Volunteers raised food, money, even troops from across Europe and North America. The Klephts and Armatoloi, basically the only armed groups inside Greece at the beginning, just had to hold on until popular opinion forced the hands of western powers to intervene. Which they did.
GAP on kills wasn't the best way of modelling this. My aim is to make klephts slippery, but not overly powerful, and to give them something to reflect other civ's support for their cause.
@Blue Ghost, would you like me to go through the text for your UC additions? I have completed my work on Adan’s completed civs and am going to start work on his in-progress ones
For the Philhellenism bonus, maybe you could give them influence with city-states on kills?
Sure, you can go through my text if you want. I don't have all the civilopedia entries, and those that I do have were mostly taken from Wikipedia or Civ 6. If you want to rewrite them, go ahead.
pineappledan
Deity
It always seemed more right to have guerillas as ranged units to me; attacks without reprisal feels more hit and run-ey. We already gave indirect fire to prowlers, but for them the idea is that they are constantly in forest. For hills, line of fire and visibility is less of an issue so I'm less concerned. Should I give them back their withdraw from melee then?
@Blue Ghost Okay, I'll download them and make changes. PM me your e-mail and I can send them directly
@adan_eslavo, here were the latest versions of the Polynesian and Shoshone builds:
Shoshone:
Polynesia:
I agreed that I don't think we will come to a satisfactory conclusion on what is the better UU until it's playtested.
People didn't like my older harbour proposal, but liked the idea of it being a harbour. I added science on trade routes and changed the culture from unit construction to scale more. Beg and plead all you want for a free promotion on naval units, I'm not turning Polynesia into a warmonger. Their current playstyle is second only to Netherlands for passivity; I'm not aiming to change that.
@Blue Ghost Okay, I'll download them and make changes. PM me your e-mail and I can send them directly
@adan_eslavo, here were the latest versions of the Polynesian and Shoshone builds:
Shoshone:
Spoiler :
food (up from +1
populationPolynesia:
Spoiler :
People didn't like my older harbour proposal, but liked the idea of it being a harbour. I added science on trade routes and changed the culture from unit construction to scale more. Beg and plead all you want for a free promotion on naval units, I'm not turning Polynesia into a warmonger. Their current playstyle is second only to Netherlands for passivity; I'm not aiming to change that.
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Few thing will be difficult to code:
"+50% Range and +2
and +1
": I have 2 of 3 parameters in 'Buildings': TradeRouteSeaDistanceModifier and TradeRouteSeaGoldBonus. Third would be lua coded.
"When you construct a Naval Unit in this City, gain 30% of
Production as 
Culture. (a beefed up version of Ottoman's foundry, but for ships only)": Ottomans have ready function 'Building_YieldFromUnitProduction' but there's no place for UnitType or UnitClass. So making it only for naval is also challenging. But this one is possible to program in lua.
I will stick to Koa then. They have interesting ability (we will see if it is possible to pragram it) and I like the of moving them to the up of the tech tree.
I deleted hill bonus from opppidum for now because I had problem with Plot:GetTerrainType function which gave me only plains, grassland, desert or tundra values (0-4) and hills (9) where ommitted.
I also looked again at few UC that @Blue Ghost did. I have few suggestions:
Tug Banner would not lost his massacre ability after upgrade. It was description error.
Harbors have 10% Cap from population (SQLite source).
@pineappledan Could you resent me rest of descriptions? I only got Poland and Mongolia.
v7 out. Ottomans completed, Agora for Greece and many more tweaks and bug fixes.
Maybe this for Polynesia:
"+50% Range and +2
and +1": I have 2 of 3 parameters in 'Buildings': TradeRouteSeaDistanceModifier and TradeRouteSeaGoldBonus. Third would be lua coded."When you construct a Naval Unit in this City, gain 30% of
Production as Culture. (a beefed up version of Ottoman's foundry, but for ships only)": Ottomans have ready function 'Building_YieldFromUnitProduction' but there's no place for UnitType or UnitClass. So making it only for naval is also challenging. But this one is possible to program in lua.I will stick to Koa then. They have interesting ability (we will see if it is possible to pragram it) and I like the of moving them to the up of the tech tree.
I deleted hill bonus from opppidum for now because I had problem with Plot:GetTerrainType function which gave me only plains, grassland, desert or tundra values (0-4) and hills (9) where ommitted.
I also looked again at few UC that @Blue Ghost did. I have few suggestions:
That's look really barren. We should find something more original. We have Sentry on half of UUs from this project.UU: Monitor (Ironclad)
56CS (up from 50)
Sentry and Cover I promotions
Looks good. Can we add something to it?UU: Hashemite Raider (Cavalry)
32
No movement cost to pillage
Garland Mine promotion (When pillaging, deal 10 damage to adjacent enemy units)
Another pillaging (same thing like Sentry). But I like it is little bit different from Scythed Chariot.Iron Chariot (Skirmisher)
Unlocked at Iron Working
12
Armor Plating, Can pillage without cost
Sentry...and it is weak, don't you think?Landwehr (Fusilier)
38
Imperial Vigilance (+25% CS in friendly territory)
Sentry (+1 sight)
This the best unit from all 5. Here sentry ability looks well. Does worker enslaving stay after upgrade?Eagle (Swordsman)
16
Does not require Iron
Sentry (+1 sight)
50% chance of spawning a Worker when killing a unit
Tug Banner would not lost his massacre ability after upgrade. It was description error.
Harbors have 10% Cap from population (SQLite source).
@pineappledan Could you resent me rest of descriptions? I only got Poland and Mongolia.
v7 out. Ottomans completed, Agora for Greece and many more tweaks and bug fixes.
Maybe this for Polynesia:
Spoiler Fale Tel'e :
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pineappledan
Deity
The Tersane is meant to focus almost entirely on production as its main buff, so I'm not concerned if it has more of X than Polynesia, whose building is culture-focused
UB - Fale Tel'e
I don't want to buff the tourism boosts off trade routes because the way they are calculated and reported to the player is vague. People probably wouldn't even notice the buff.
I don't want to buff sea resources overmuch because the UA already does that
I don't want to buff ocean food because the UA already does that
re: @Blue Ghost's units, I kinda agree. Some proposals for other promotions to break up the no pillage cost/sentry monotony. Why ARE we so hell-bent on rendering the scout unit line useless?
Hashemite
UB - Fale Tel'e
Spoiler :
I don't want to buff the tourism boosts off trade routes because the way they are calculated and reported to the player is vague. People probably wouldn't even notice the buff.
I don't want to buff sea resources overmuch because the UA already does that
I don't want to buff ocean food because the UA already does that
re: @Blue Ghost's units, I kinda agree. Some proposals for other promotions to break up the no pillage cost/sentry monotony. Why ARE we so hell-bent on rendering the scout unit line useless?
Hashemite
- 'Desert Raider' promotion - double movement in desert
- 'Hejaz Railway' promotion - 5XP and 2x gold from plundering trade routes OR receives gold from pillaging roads and railways as if they were improvements
- drop sentry (doesn't really make sense in this case, the Monitor had horrible sightlines)
- -1 move, double move on coast (bring back the vanilla ironclad promotion. That boat was NOT seaworthy, lol)
- drop pillage
- Give chariot debuff (loses movement in rough terrain)
- accuracy I
- shock chariot - +10%CS and RCS for every adjacent opponent
- drop Sentry (por Que?)
- 'Yorkscher Marsche' Promotion - Great Musician Points on killiing enemy OR +1 culture in city when garrisoned
- Woodsman promotion. It would be weird if Jaguar had it, but Eagle didn't
- I don't even thing the sentry is necessary here either.
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pineappledan
Deity
The question of losing/keeping promotions will keep coming up. I think it best to speak my mind and explain my position on this question in general. I will try to be consistent in this philosophy's application in my own proposals and opinions.
Months back we had a disagreement on the forum with G concerning losing/keeping unique promotions, specifically on the Mayan Atlatl. I was on the side advocating that the atlatl strike promotion should remain on the unit because it was the only Unique promotion in the entire CBP that was lost on upgrade that wasn't hard coded to a unit. We ended up not only failing to change G's mind on the atlatl strike, but we got legionnaire pilums nerfed too. It left a bad taste in my mouth.
Now we've gotten into this a little and the discussion of unique promotions, and whether to keep on upgrade or not, keeps coming up. I need to say I'm firmly in the camp of keeping everything we can, unless it is absolutely ludicrous to do so. Unique units should be most powerful in the era that they become available, absolutely. That is what bonus movement, attack damage, and other unitType stat buffs are there for, however. My reasons for why we should try to keep unique promotions are as follows:
Some examples:
Months back we had a disagreement on the forum with G concerning losing/keeping unique promotions, specifically on the Mayan Atlatl. I was on the side advocating that the atlatl strike promotion should remain on the unit because it was the only Unique promotion in the entire CBP that was lost on upgrade that wasn't hard coded to a unit. We ended up not only failing to change G's mind on the atlatl strike, but we got legionnaire pilums nerfed too. It left a bad taste in my mouth.
Now we've gotten into this a little and the discussion of unique promotions, and whether to keep on upgrade or not, keeps coming up. I need to say I'm firmly in the camp of keeping everything we can, unless it is absolutely ludicrous to do so. Unique units should be most powerful in the era that they become available, absolutely. That is what bonus movement, attack damage, and other unitType stat buffs are there for, however. My reasons for why we should try to keep unique promotions are as follows:
- it's generally more consistent with what is most common practice within the existing CBP
- If you are not in a position to make war in the era that your UUs arrive at, then there should at least be some reward for keeping them alive.
- Promotions enhance the feeling of uniqueness for civs further into the game, even after the unit models are lost. Reduces the feeling of playing a 'generic civ'
- Players can assign more importance to "legacy units" and keeping them alive. This imbues these units with a sense of military tradition that reflects real military institutions such as orders, veterans clubs, military doctrine, etc.
- UUs that don't have unique promotions are dead-weight if they are City-state gifts. The Atlatlist for example, is gifted to you even after you have researched crossbows, and doesn't keep its promotion. You either delete it for the gold or upgrade it. The CS gave you an obsolete unit you have to pay to upgrade yourself so that it can become a generic crossbow. yaaaaaaay...
- As @Funak put it "[Even if it makes no] real difference in gameplay it lowers the desire to make war; it makes the civ feel defensive and boring.
- It's more"fun", gives players a mechanic or side-mission of preserving these special units and making them stand the test of time
Some examples:
- keep spawn workers on kill from eagle warrior. (works with Aztec warfare prioritizing captives)
- keep Hashemite damage on pillage (Feels vaguely terroristic, which for better or worse has been ascribed to that culture in the 20th century)
- keep Koa's 'bleed' damage on attack (look up Kapu Kuʻialua)
- Drop scythes after upgrade from the scythed chariot? sure, the unit upgrade for that unit doesn't even have wheels, it would be like keeping feared elephant on India's war elephant after it upgraded to cavalry
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Blue Ghost
King
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2016
- Messages
- 710
[/
The AI would probably not understand the CS influence bonus, unfortunately.
I generally agree on keeping UU bonuses on upgrade. The Eagle currently doesn't keep the worker spawning on upgrade, because I was concerned that capturing a bunch of workers in every war would be a bit much, but I could change that.
That's a lot of additions to the base harbor. I'd trim it down, just to keep it from being bloated. If you have too many abilities, they just end up pulling focus away from each other.The Tersane is meant to focus almost entirely on production as its main buff, so I'm not concerned if it has more of X than Polynesia, whose building is culture-focused
UB - Fale Tel'eSpoiler :
I don't want to buff the tourism boosts off trade routes because the way they are calculated and reported to the player is vague. People probably wouldn't even notice the buff.
I don't want to buff sea resources overmuch because the UA already does that
I don't want to buff ocean food because the UA already does that
I hadn't even noticed how many of those units have pillage/sentry. Yeah, that's definitely something I could work on.
Desert Raider I can do. The plundering trade routes seems too inconsequential to be worth including. I wanted to give the same effect for pillaging roads as improvements, but the Lua event for pillaging doesn't work for roads, so if that's possible to implement, it's beyond my ability. I think two unique promotions is enough for a unit. If it's not strong enough, I can buff the base CS a bit.
I can do that.
I'm a bit hesitant about giving the chariot debuff; it makes sense flavorfully, but it's a pretty significant drawback, and I prefer UUs to be strictly better than what they replace, or at least clearly superior in almost all scenarios. I can do Accuracy or Shock Chariot, but I would like to limit early UUs to two promotions for the sake of simplicity.
I included Sentry because Hinin's original proposal had it, but I can drop it. Granting culture is cool, though +1 might be a little small. Counterproposal: +2 Culture per turn when stationed in owned territory, and/or +2 Influence per turn when stationed in a city-state with which you have a pledge of protection.
The AI would probably not understand the CS influence bonus, unfortunately.
I deliberately avoided giving the Eagle Woodsman to distinguish it from the Jaguar. I don't want the Aztec UUs to be too similar.
I generally agree on keeping UU bonuses on upgrade. The Eagle currently doesn't keep the worker spawning on upgrade, because I was concerned that capturing a bunch of workers in every war would be a bit much, but I could change that.
pineappledan
Deity
Hey man, I'm with you. I wanted to do the council replacement. Maybe I should just pull my own Gazebo and say F*** it, ya'll are getting Hinin's original council proposal cause it's da best. The other thing is every single UA for Polynesia right now moves the base building/unit to a different tech, and it's really bothering me.
Oh definitely, I didn't mean so propose that you take ALL my ideas and implement them. I agree it woul dbe too much
It's a chariot though... It's like not giving feared elephant to an elephant unit. You could just make it a chariot archer replacement in that case though. The unit doesn't have to be a skirmisher.
Yeah the AI wouldn't know what to do at all
. The reason behind that promotion idea is that Beethoven himself wrote the marching song for the bohemian regiment of landwehr, and it's still popular today. Influence doesn't really jive with that, but culture or something to do with music does. If you want to increase culture from 1 to 2 if garrisoned I'm good with that. If they could just be standing anywhere inside your borders you could essentially culture blob a new area by just building 5 of these dudes and parking them near a freshly settled city. New meta, the Austrian cultural cockblock
The jaguar would still have the 33% in woods and the 25hp heal though. Don't want them to be too similar, but at the same time I don't think they should be too different. Outside of attire, there doesn't seem to be much evidence that the two military societies employed different tactics or customs in any meaningful way.
I think you'd just end up selling them past a certain point. Makes it interesting because it's a bonus that can saturate
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