3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[pineappledan]

I already gave you a list of them. What exactly do you need names for? Please list the precise names you want to change. As for which ones you think should be changed and in what direction, I think you should just use your discretion.

 

[Hinin]

I just did some tests :
- The promotions of the Goedendag work as intended. I just would like to know what promotion is lost on upgrade (I think the "Goedendag !" one, since it would be singular to have a +10 % CS against mounted on a Tercio) : would it be possible that you add (L) and (NL) after each unique promotion of your units (L for Lost on upgrade, and NL for Not lost on upgrade, of course), please ?
- The new 3d model of the Goedendag isn't good either unfortunately (it is just a Medieval English spearman, as you said...). We can stay with it for now, but I think that later, a new 3d model could be done for this unit. It could use the Longswordman stance, with a Goedendag in hand, a helmet similar to what the new 3d model has and a purely orange/yellow dress similar to what the precedent 3d model of the Goedendag had.
- Could you please had the "Amphibious" promotion to the Koa please ?
- I think we should find one more unique attribute for the Aztec Eagle (and maybe a new flag) : the unit seems bland (although the 3d model is quite excellent).

For now, I think we should stick to the creation/testing of new UCs, and concentrate on the names later : I'm for a version with less English names, but debating about this now, when we are so far the original goal, seem a bit like overstretching to me (I hope I use the expression correctly).

 

[pineappledan]

I agree, let’s call it what we call it and then we can load all the UCs in a spreadsheet for a later time. We can make an update for the modmod using consistently anglicized or consistently endonymic names when the dust has settled and if this improved text modmod gets off the ground

 

[adan_eslavo]

I made here comparison. Tell me if they are good or wrong. Left side - what we can use now (anglicized version) and in brackets native version.

@Hinin

• If there is no info in tooltip of promotion then it stays on upgrade. I always add "Lost after unit upgrade" phrase where it is necessary.
• I've already added amphibious in v19 instead of decreased production. Will be with next update.
• I liked the JFD model for Goedendag. If only it hadn't those maces.

What I can tell from my bug testing is that Holkans gain XP faster because of synergy with +1 MP. It's good news. Set city on forest and make fast 2nd one = extrememly fast area scouting and taking all goodies for yourself.

I found out that Kampung is wrong spelling (funny thing is that Civ 6 uses it. What a shame). Indonesian an Malay spelling is Kampong.

 

[pineappledan]

I’m making a spreadsheet for all the names of all the UCs on the main spreadsheet (last sheet)

Rule of thumb for anglicizing/endonym project:
-Our mission for anglicizing is clarity and accessibility, NOT actually just translating everything to English
-Rule of thumb: if Wikipedia and other sources use the endonym when discussing the UC, then just use 1 name for both. (English speaking people know what a “chateau” is)
-the mission for using endonyms is to make things as respectful as possible without descending into self-parody. (Calling the university of coimbra ‘universedade de coimbra’ in an English language mod is as silly as calling the Qizilbash ‘red-heads’)
- If the difference between anglicized names and the proper endonym is spelling (Barbican vs. Barbakan), or is the equivalent of adding a extra vowel sound (Sambadrome vs Sambadromo) then it's not worth the effort
- If an actual name for the unit has been lost to history (immortal), or it is a unit representing a dead culture from a dead language (seige tower), then it's basically fair game. Giving the unit an equivalent Aramaic name isn't any more valid than an English one.

I added the skirmisher table to the spreadsheet, and I added the scythed chariot into it

Should be elephant camp for baan chang, if you’re looking for a direct translation, alternatively, could call it a teak lumber camp

 

[FieryCharizard7]

Here is the link to the first imgur album of my testing. 200 uncommented slides of raw 3/4UC action.
https://imgur.com/a/Dtc6F

 

[FieryCharizard7]

Here is a link to an imgur file of a simulation I ran yesterday. https://imgur.com/a/Dtc6F

The slides should be in a generally correct order. At this point, I'm trying to make sure Civs are properly boosted when their UC's come into play, making sure one Civ isn't dominating every game, and looking to see if the AI are competitive with each other throughout the game. So far, I have some early doubts about balance for the Celts and Spain but you look at the slides and decide for yourself.

 

[Blue Ghost]

How do you run the simulations? Do you use Firetuner?

 

[Jarula]

By the way if after this you guys want a new project we can do ynaemp I have custom civ 4 traits I made etc... A buff for European short on space civs.. new units etc...

 

[Hinin]

For the Great Turkish bombard, you can find on this wikipedia article two Turkish names : Şahi topu and Şahi.
For the Shotelai, you can use an English name with the name of the weapon (the Shotel) in it : so "Shotel warrior", or "Shotel knight" (if you want to do a reference ).

Indonesian an Malay spelling is Kampong.

Kampong it will be, then.

I added the skirmisher table to the spreadsheet, and I added the scythed chariot into it

OH... sorry I totally forgot about it...

Spoiler Shamefur dispray ! :

 

[pineappledan]

Soo.... Hinin expressed some frustration with the Venetian UC, the Great Galleass. Venice is exceptionally difficult because the Galleass was a Venetian invention, and one of their greatest contributions to naval history. Adding "great" to the name of a unit to make it unique is pretty dumb though.
So instead I was looking at the Fusta as a possible alternative. here's what I propose:
Venetian Fusta/Galleas:

Spoiler :

- Venice gets a unique class of unit, the Fusta at the same tech as the Galleas. It uses the Lanterna model from the Byzantine mod
- Venice still gets Galleases, but they are the unit model/icon of the "Great Galleas" UU, and their Galleass has +2 RCP/CP (same as the current VP version of the unit), no other changes. Venice's stronger Galleas is just called "Galleas", with no formal recognition that it's a UU

Fusta - Unique Class
Available at Guilds
4 movement (+1 from Galleass)
125 production (50 less than galleass, 25 more than Pentekonter)
20 RCP (2 less than Galleass, 5 more than Pentekonter)
10CP (2 less than Galleas, 4 more than Pentekonter)
Does not contribute to unit maintenance (but does contribute to supply cap)

Essentially, a naval version of the archer from the Egypt Narmer mod, a cheap, spammable unit that can serve as a standing army without becoming a financial burden, but doesn't come at the cost of losing the option of a more hard hitting galleass, which for venice would hit harder than most

 

[Hinin]

So instead I was looking at the Fusta as a possible alternative. here's what I propose:

- Venice gets a unique class of unit, the Fusta at the same tech as the Galleas. It uses the Lanterna model from the Byzantine mod

It seems this unit could fit perfectly for the Morroccan UM2 (both in terms of historical accuracy, and for what I thought could be this UM2, a fast Galleass replacement)...

- Venice still gets Galleases, but they are the unit model/icon of the "Great Galleas" UU, and their Galleass has +4 RCP/CP (same as the current VP version of the unit), no other changes. Venice's stronger Galleas is just called "Galleas", with no formal recognition that it's a UU

So... It would be the combination of these two units that would form the Venetian UM : its unique attribute would be to give you the choice between a cheap, spammable and fast but fragile version or a more sturdy one. It's unique, I like it... What a shame for the Morrocan UM2 though...

 

[pineappledan]

For Morocco, I bundled the art for this Sicilian unit as a possibility. I think it fits the bill and looks slightly "newer" than the laternas model. The heyday of Barbary pirates was 15th-16th century, so it's more into the renaissance. I was under the impression that a later era melee ship would better reflect a pirate's boarding actions and historical context

EDIT: First attempt at the 4 icons for the Tambo, Uni of Coimbra, Schutzstanden and Order:

 

[Hinin]

For Morocco, I bundled the art for this Sicilian unit as a possibility. I think it fits the bill and looks slightly "newer" than the laternas model. The heyday of Barbary pirates was 15th-16th century, so it's more into the renaissance. I was under the impression that a later era melee ship would better reflect a pirate's boarding actions and historical context

The picture and the 3d model will be fine, I'm sure of that. The thing is that the unit, being a GAdmiral replacement originally, won't have any attack animation (but I'm sure it can be done fairly easily).

edit : also, have you seen the flag of the unit ; I don't know if an anchor is what we are looking for...

Here are the unique attributes for the unit I've been thinking about :
Corsair (Corvette replacement)
- Cheaper (but no CP bonus)
- Has the "Slipstream" promotion (NL) => pirate elusiveness !
- Has the "Razzia" (when killing, pillaging or plundering, gain food and production in the nearest city ; killing : 100 % CP in production/food ; pillaging : equivalent amount to the one of the Runestone during the Renaissance era ; plundering : equivalent amount to the gold yield) promotion (NL) => I chose production and food for several reasons : first, gold will already be obtained in two of the three cases ; second, these yields participate directly to the growth of your coastal cities (your pirate dens) and the production of additionnal Corsairs ; third, it is a combination of yield we haven't yet seen among "pillaging UC/UA" (Aztec, Denmark mainly).
- Has the "Mediterranean pirate" promotion (can enter rival territory without an open border agreement ; can pillage without a declaration of war) (L) => If you have a proper alliance (DoF + DPact) with a powerful civilization, you can bully other civs with less fear of a DoW

EDIT: First attempt at the 4 icons for the Tambo, Uni of Coimbra, Schutzstanden and Order:

All seem nice to me.
edit : The only thing I saw later was the fact that several flags in the picture for the Schützenstand (and not Schützenstanden => the plural would be Schützenstände) aren't correctly cut in their upper parts. Thank you very much for having worked on these pictures though.

 

[De_Genius]

The Fusta is a little bland. It provides great strategy and all that, but does not have anything particular unique and exciting about it.
Perhaps a promotion allowing it to withdraw from combat since it is a light ship and not very good at defending ?

 

[adan_eslavo]

Spoiler Texts :

Ethiopia - @Hinin sugested something like this:
- Shotel Warrior/Swordsman - Shotelai

India - there's actual War Elephant in VP, so maybe:
- Indian War Elephant - Naga-Malla
- Harappan Reservoir - Dholavira

Maya - why not leave court part (it's not Mayan word, right?) for endonym and leave only Pitz:
- Ball Court - Pitz

China - Xiafan Guanjun and Kao-Chang have tone marks missing. It would be good to add them.

Portugal - we have already Facotry in VP, so we need to leave Feitoria or change it:
- Trading Post/Feitoria - Feitoria

Arabia - what about Dromedarii name for Camel Archer?
- Camel Archer - Dromedarii

Babylon:
- Bowman - Qashtum

Germany:
- Slayer/Striker - Slaganz

Ottomans:
- Imperial Cannon Foundry - Tophane-i Amire

Good job on this comparison. I added few changes and cleaned-up the file.

 

[FieryCharizard7]

How do you run the simulations? Do you use Firetuner?

Yup, set it to autoplay.

 

[pineappledan]

Thanks for filling in the gaps, @adan_eslavo.
- For the Chinese words that might require tonal markers, isn't that the same problem we have with french accents? Is that even possible?
-Dholavira was the name of a city that contained a reservoire... I don't think that's what we are looking for.
-Dromedarii is latin, not Arab, so that's not actually any better than just using the English
-Pitz is the name of the sport as far as I am aware (there's like 6 different Mayan words for it to choose from), but I have not found anything to indicate the name of the court and the sport are interchangeable

edit : also, have you seen the flag of the unit ; I don't know if an anchor is what we are looking for..

Could use the vanilla privateer flag or the one Forbrich the great Corsair instead?

Cheaper (but no CP bonus)

I feel like we’ve been doing that a lot. I also think that with how big the cp buffs are on the other corvettes (armada has +8 for example) that the Corsair would look really lacklustre if we didn’t give it at least a bit of bonus cp

Has the "Slipstream" promotion (NL) => pirate elusiveness !

With the other things I don’t feel this is necessary, plus we already gave this to prau.

Has the "Razzia" (when killing, pillaging or plundering, gain food and production in the nearest city

Definitely this!

"Mediterranean pirate" promotion (can enter rival territory without an open border agreement ; can pillage without a declaration of war) (L)

The Caribbean civ has a mechanic where if you end your turn in unfriendly territory then there’s a % chance your unit turns barbarian. I think there should be some sort of cost though. The pillaging without war sounds difficult an minimally useful. Might not be worthwhile to try to code.

Schützenstand (and not Schützenstanden => the plural would be Schützenstände) aren't correctly cut

Yeah I’ll have another go at that tonight, I wasn’t happy with it either. Too many small little corners and stuff
EDIT: new version with schutzenstand cleaned up is attached

The Fusta is a little bland. It provides great strategy and all that, but does not have anything particular unique and exciting about it.

Eh, if it’s a whole new unit class it might be okay if it’s a little straightforward. Don’t want to replace the galleass, just augment it. Could add withdraw from combat though, like the caravel

EDIT EDIT: Carthage 2.0 attached.
Tophet changes: added 2 base gold and gold per citizen increased to 0.33 (was 0.25)

Shofet: Removed Supply cap increase

Things to do (that I don't know how to do):

• If possible, tie a supply cap increase to the creation of citadels instead of the consumption of the shophet.
• Silence Historic events for the birth of GAs and GGs for Carthage (they get tourism every time they disembark

 

[IcyAngel]

Poland's Barbican grants 15 CS instead of the stated 5 CS (as of the latest version).

Sorry if already reported!

 

[pineappledan]

Updated modding resource folder with the 4 new custom icons and more UCs

Added:

Spoiler :

Austria - Schutzenstande
Germany - Slaganz
Germany - replacement Order icons (teutonic order will use existing order icon)
Portugal - University of Coimbra
Inca - Tambo
Venice - Fusta