Tomatekh's Kyivan Rus' (Yaroslav the Wise) for VP
- Thread starter gwennog
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- custom civ kievan kyivan rus vox populi
I have to admit, no, not yet. But you're right, we'll have to find something
.The bolded part is probably the bit that is not very unique. I know it's on the original civ but we've kinda stolen this effect for Statecraft (and Freedom has it too I think?)Trade Routes with
City-States generate +1
Influence per turn per each owned
Gain 15% ofGold from diplomatic deals with other Civilizations as
Great Merchant points,
Culture and
Science.
In Traits there is TradeRoutesPerXOwnedCities. This effect is sort of already on the Veche Hall, although (a) perhaps the Veche Hall does a bit too much? and (b) you could have it kick in earlier than Chancery to get some bonus early (15% gold -> yields is awesome but presumably you get very little when trades are only worth like 4 gold due to rounding and so forth)
In Traits there is TradeRoutesPerXOwnedVassals. Cool effect but probably doesn't make historical sense.
There is also Trait_YieldChangesIncomingTradeRoute which is currently unused. Could gain additional culture and science for receiving routes (I assume that's what it does)
Finally you have thing like Trait_SpecialistYieldChanges and Trait_ImprovementYieldChanges, you could consider culture on merchants, gold on villages, etc.
Unrelated point. The Sich UB has so much text. That's 5 additional things it does!!
+1
All religious building (build by Faith) in the city +1
I would get rid of these things.
Hi Hokath,
Thanks to your return, do you play it or is it just a design analysis?
I must also say that I hate the micromanagement of emissaries, diplomats and other envoys to gain points of influence on cities. All civs that use more global influence effects suit me well, this is the case with this one.
In fact the only part of the UA that doesn't really suit me is the second. It is too weak at the start, can eventually become too strong on large maps but above all, it is too player oriented against the AI. The power only takes into account the positive balance of gold per turn, the player can therefore favor direct gold purchases and gold sales per turn. I am therefore looking for a similar but more balanced yield mechanism.
but removing it would greatly weaken the civ (especially GG's points) and after many games with or against, I can say that it is far from OP.
For the veche Hall, I could remove this part:
Land and Sea Trade Routes gain +25% Range
redundant with the new part of UA
Thanks to your return, do you play it or is it just a design analysis?
It's funny how everyone perceives originality. If I adapted this civ it's precisely because I found it really original and fun to play. Many features take up policy mechanisms and vice versa, but this one is really unique, at least I think.
I must also say that I hate the micromanagement of emissaries, diplomats and other envoys to gain points of influence on cities. All civs that use more global influence effects suit me well, this is the case with this one.
In fact the only part of the UA that doesn't really suit me is the second. It is too weak at the start, can eventually become too strong on large maps but above all, it is too player oriented against the AI. The power only takes into account the positive balance of gold per turn, the player can therefore favor direct gold purchases and gold sales per turn. I am therefore looking for a similar but more balanced yield mechanism.
Maybe it's a bit busy, it's a compilation of a lot of ideas from Jarcast and myself
but removing it would greatly weaken the civ (especially GG's points) and after many games with or against, I can say that it is far from OP.For the veche Hall, I could remove this part:
Land and Sea
Trade Routes gain +25% Rangeredundant with the new part of UA
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I play with them fairly often. I think it is my favourite Tomatekh civ, perhaps it is the best modded civ for BNW, I'm not sure 
I agree the civ is not OP, I think it actually pretty good balance based on where I think a civ should be.
I would still encourage you to trim the Sich. Perhaps you can increase the culture from allies to +2. Or, because great general points are a valid yield, you could even make it like +1 culture/+1 great general point per ally. If you want to keep the +science, I would just give the building +2 science; the extra complexity has no significant payoff for the space it takes up. If it were something like +5 science per faith building then sure -- but of course the AI doesn't know about this either.
Edit: Yes I would remove that part from the Veche Hall about trade route length now you have it in the UA. I don't know what a good number is, maybe you can bump it to 66% even.
But on the main point of the UA influence effect, for me, if I have this Veche Hall and Sich UBs then already: I am going Statecraft and I am sending trade routes to city states. The part of the UA doesn't really impact the way I play, it is the fact the kit is diplomacy oriented overall. The UA makes it better but it doesn't make me want to do anything new. That's the part of the civ I find underwhelming as a VP civ.
Another idea that came to me. In my Devotion ideology I have a tenet that gives Great Merchant trade mission +influence boost.
You could do the same thing but the other way around: I.e. Great Diplomat mission gives gold. You could even give this to all diplomatic units.
Of course you just said you don't like using diplomatic units
but you do have +25% (up from 10%) 
on the Veche so it does make sense!
Edit: another way to replace the part of the UA you don't like would be to have gold->yield on purchase conversion, like how bank does gold->science. I must say I do like that part myself but you make good points about its shortcomings.
Sorry for wall of text, I have drunk a coffee in record time.
I agree the civ is not OP, I think it actually pretty good balance based on where I think a civ should be.
I would still encourage you to trim the Sich. Perhaps you can increase the culture from allies to +2. Or, because great general points are a valid yield, you could even make it like +1 culture/+1 great general point per ally. If you want to keep the +science, I would just give the building +2 science; the extra complexity has no significant payoff for the space it takes up. If it were something like +5 science per faith building then sure -- but of course the AI doesn't know about this either.
Edit: Yes I would remove that part from the Veche Hall about trade route length now you have it in the UA. I don't know what a good number is, maybe you can bump it to 66% even.
But on the main point of the UA influence effect, for me, if I have this Veche Hall and Sich UBs then already: I am going Statecraft and I am sending trade routes to city states. The part of the UA doesn't really impact the way I play, it is the fact the kit is diplomacy oriented overall. The UA makes it better but it doesn't make me want to do anything new. That's the part of the civ I find underwhelming as a VP civ.
Another idea that came to me. In my Devotion ideology I have a tenet that gives Great Merchant trade mission +influence boost.
You could do the same thing but the other way around: I.e. Great Diplomat mission gives gold. You could even give this to all diplomatic units.
Of course you just said you don't like using diplomatic units
but you do have +25% (up from 10%) on the Veche so it does make sense!Edit: another way to replace the part of the UA you don't like would be to have gold->yield on purchase conversion, like how bank does gold->science. I must say I do like that part myself but you make good points about its shortcomings.
Sorry for wall of text, I have drunk a coffee in record time.
no problem.I wanted to image this part of the history of the Sich and give a Science boost.
"The administration of the Sich provided Orthodox churches and schools for the religious and secular education of children. "
The Veche gives +2 science, that's a bit of a repeat to also give +2 Science.
This was our first idea with Jarcast but it's really too many points. And I also like the fact that you only do point if you're at war.
I need to play around a bit with the new design and the new VP to see what works best.
I agree that it does not change the resolutely Diplomatic orientation of the mod but it allows you to start taking control of neighboring CS much more quickly. it also guides the choice of tech to be able to quickly have 2 commercial routes, the number necessary to start gaining influence.
I'm not opposed in principle, believe me. But it would take a really attractive new engine for me to lose the fun on this one.
Your idea is interesting, there may be some digging to do. Something like: all diplomatic units generate gold and GMerchant points when they gain influence on a CS.
Jarcat's idea is very good all the same and original, if we change, it would be to stay quite close all the same. I might be thinking of using the absolute value of gold per turn (exchanges in both directions contribute to the development of Kyivan) and of course lowering the yield which would then become too high. This way, there is no need to “tinker” during exchanges to have the most positive gold balance per turn possible.
Finally, it could make an UA of this type:
Diplomatic missions generate
Gain 10% of
*considering gold per turn in absolute value
Problemedical
Chieftain
Hello! First of all, greeting from Ukraine and kudos on this amazing mod! I've been waiting for a long time for this period of my country's history to be represented faithfully, with passion and clarity, and this version of Kyivan Rus is perfect for that. One question: I can't seem to make it work with the 4.16 VP modpack (installed into the DLC folder as per instructions), the mod seems to be "missing key dependencies". Do I have to install Vox Populi itself with 3rd and 4th UC manually in the "mods" folder, or is there another way to make this mod work with (maybe add it to the modpack somehow)?
Very happy that you find our version meets your expectations.
Modpacks are made to play in multiplayer or at least play with an all-in-one version. If you want to play with a mod that is not contained in the modpack, you have to go through a classic VP install and launch by "mods" or you can reconfigure a modpack yourself with the mods you want.
v.5 online:
Change part of the UA and "cleaning" of buildings
Change part of the UA and "cleaning" of buildings
- Only Gold received from Trade Deals is counted (before it was the difference between gold received and gold given)
- This gold now counts for 50% in Culture and Science gain and 10% in Great Merchant points
- The 50% Trade Routes range increase now counts for sea and land
- Veche Hall loses Land and Sea Trade Routes gain +25% Range
- Sich loses All religious building (build by Faith) in the city +1 Science
Lucrative strategy:
Conquer 3-5 cities and vassalize your neighbor(s), then as their economy recovers sell the cities back one by one.
You can sell even the small ones for 100+ gpt, and capitals can go thrice as much. Late Industrial and I now have a steady supply of roughly 300 science and culture per turn just from UA alone.
epic speed btw
Conquer 3-5 cities and vassalize your neighbor(s), then as their economy recovers sell the cities back one by one.
You can sell even the small ones for 100+ gpt, and capitals can go thrice as much. Late Industrial and I now have a steady supply of roughly 300 science and culture per turn just from UA alone.
epic speed btw
imo it's fine for the most part
early game yields are in the perfect position, while mid-late game is borderline but still passable.
the crazy yields really only appear in player vs AI due to the number of ways AI deals can be cheesed.
flipping real estate can also be a good diplomatic strategy, you could conquer a rival's city and sell it to their friend. Either the third party returns it (in which case you can repeat the process) or they keep the city and sour relations between the two factions.
